Talk:Adolf Hitler

Was Hitler Autistic?

On People speculated to have been autistic, one of the names is Adolf Hitler. I agree that he may have been Autistic because of several of his actions. —Preceding unsigned comment added by TanjaFleischer1 (talk • contribs) 13:57, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

Hitler Christian?

I suppose some may wish to pretend that Hitler was some sort of non-Christian, I already see people parroting the line that his public statements are "mere politics". It is dishonest to pretend that he was other than what he claimed to be, a Christian. In his own words:

"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people.

-Adolf Hitler, in a speech on 12 April 1922 (Norman H. Baynes, ed. The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939, Vol. 1 of 2, pp. 19-20, Oxford University Press, 1942)

"We will wash off the Christian veneer and bring out a religion peculiar to our race."

"The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity."

"The dogma of Christianity gets worn away before the advances of science. Religion will have to make more and more concessions. Gradually the myths crumble."

All of these are quotes of Hitler taken from Wikiquote, and they suggest that he is not Christian. The basis for the claim that he is Christian appears to come from his public speeches, which are probably misleading. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.206.86.129 (talk) 03:03, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

I saw this too. I have no particular interest in Christianity, but having read some transcripts from his various meetings, I cannot possibly conclude that he was anything close to a Christian. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.234.19.49 (talk) 08:59, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

I agree. Hitler being a Christian should be taken down since he only used Christianity to manipulate others. It is well documented that Hitler did despise the religion and before the war was over, he was sending evangelicals to the death camps. Trust me, if Hitler had won the war, Christianity would have been wiped off the face of the planet, at least publicly. The Jews were just some of Hitler's first planned victims of the holocaust, he would have wiped out many others. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.227.41.154 (talk) 03:17, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

My understanding is that Hitler was a Völkisch neoPagan, and that he wished the people to return to the "Religion of Blood & Soil." —Preceding unsigned comment added by WikiTracker (talk • contribs) 20:24, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

As far as I can tell, actually, Hitler was the one main guy in his administration who wasn't into the occult. --Lenin and McCarthy | (Complain here) 20:54, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

We have a whole article on Hitler's religious beliefs. The basic facts are, he was not a Christian in any traditional sense, he was not an occultist either. Str1977 ^(talk) 21:04, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Well, I agree that Hitler wasn't Christian in any usual sense of the word, as I've said rather often before. However, identifying him as "Positive Christian won't do, either. If one had to say anything specific in the box, it would have to be "Catholic," since he did in fact not officially withdraw membership. However, Str1977's revert to the former "see below" is the better solution. I'd forgotten that one. Bytwerk (talk) 21:14, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

I agree that "Positive Christianity" is no good a designation, certainly not for the infobox. For good reasons we once just related to the section below.

However, "Catholic" is completely unacceptable and I rightfully criticized your changing the box to say that. You were around when we discussed this a while ago and you know the facts and details so please don't play such a game. Hitler was no way a catholic and nonsense about "he was on the rolls" or "he did not officially withdraw membership" will not do either. Bytwerk, you know the facts, you know the requirements and I expected better from you.

But since you happen to agree with my solution (actually not my but the consensus from way back, that should have never been strayed from) I am content. I hope you will remember that solution in the future. 21:34, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Did this thread help to alter the information on the encyclopedia falsely claiming that Hitler was a Christian? If so, then well done. Because Hitler was certainly anything but a Christian. I posted a thread on here some months back myself, and in it, I included the words of his personal secretary, Traudl Junge, whom wrote:

"He was not a member of any church, and thought the Christian religions were outdated, hypocritical institutions that lured people into them. The laws of nature were his religion. He could reconcile his violence better with nature than with the Christian doctrine of loving your neighbour and your enemy. 'Science isn't yet clear about the origins of humanity' he once said. 'We are probably the highest stage of development of some mammal which developed from reptiles and moved onto human beings, perhaps by way of apes. We are a part of creation and children of nature, and the same laws apply to us as to all living creatures. And in nature the law of the struggle for survival has reigned from the first. Everything incapable of life, everything weak is eliminated. Only mankind, and above all the church have made it their aim to keep alive the weak, those unfit to live, and people of an inferior kind." - Until The Final Hour: Hitler's Last Secretary, by Traudl Junge.TheBlackWhirlwind (talk) 20:36, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Neither a Christian or a pagan, he probably used both religions for political purposes. I agree that he was really more closer to an atheist: "nature was his religion", and his religion was really a distorted and perverted form of Darwinism. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.89.114.134 (talk) 02:58, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Closer to an atheist despite believing in God, an active divinty? I guess "monotheist" would be the least controversial. He can't really be described as a Christian in light of his [private] comments. I suppose agnostic is close to what he was but he never admitted he didn't know, he seemed to change his beliefs always wanting to appear sure in one thing, I think his ego prevented him from admitting it, perhaps even to himself.--EchetusXe (talk) 23:18, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

"Nominally" Catholic? So was Oscar Romero "nominally Catholic" too? Was Mahatma Gandhi "nominally Hindu"? Surely the religion you belong to is decided by the beliefs you express. I trust that Osama Bin Laden is on wikipedia as being "nominally Muslim". If being a nasty person is enough to discredit the individual's self-asserted religious beliefs, Muslims should not have to accept Bin Laden as one of their own either.... December 2008 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.4.195.65 (talk) 18:22, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

As was hitler's father. Hitler, as a youth at least, never attended Mass or received the Sacraments - he did later say "We do not want any other god than Germany itself. It is essential to have fanatical faith and hope and love in and for Germany." you would call that Catholic without qualification?--Alf ^melmac 18:30, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

TIME FACTOR

It appears he was born a Catholic, however, in time it seems he lost faith in his religion based on probably what was happening....

No different than how some people attack the Catholic Church today due to the molestation by homosexual and a few heterosexual pedofiles, and other forms of corruption in the Catholic Church today.

--Caesar J.B. Squitti: Son of Maryann Rosso and Arthur Natale Squitti (talk) 17:19, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

As an atheist I believe that whether Hitler was religious or not is kinda a red herring that both sides like to use to discredit the other side. Religious people point to Hitler as an atheist to support their claim that atheism can cause millions of deaths. Atheists point to Hitler as a Christian or Catholic to support their claim that these religions can cause millions of deaths. Based on what I've read it doesn't seem like he was a strong atheist nor religious man. This is almost beside the point though. Hitler didn't kill all those millions of people simply by himself, he had an entire country of people willing to carry out his orders. Whether the large majority of Germany at the time was religious or non-religious is something I'll leave to you guys to look up. Fatrb38 (talk) 14:48, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

I'm glad that this topic has resulted in some change, but I don't believe that the matter of Hitler's religion should be dropped completely from his short Bio. (beneath his picture on the top-right), I don't see that happening for any other important individual I've looked up on Wiki. If we could agree on some term for his beliefs (I've read "Pagan Theism" suggested) I think it would be for the better. Secondly, since I cannot move the 'post' itself, I would like to make it clear that of the first post, only the section "We will wash off...probably misleading." are my post. Someone added without permission the other two paragraphs, at a later date. Sorry, I just hate having words put in my mouth. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.152.197.126 (talk)

Details?

What made hitler decide that he wanted to kill and rule? power is uncontrolled, but what started him to want this power. Why did the nazi leaders help him? What made him DECIDE he wanted them to help? Where there anymore Nazi Leaders that werent metioned? Is there a speciffic book with all this information? where can i get resources?\

75.6.184.44 (talk) 23:19, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

– — … ‘ “ ’ ” ° ″ ′ ≈ ≠ ≤ ≥ ± − × ÷ ← → · §

If you want the answer to this question then look no further than the "Childhood" section. When children are badly abused by their parents and, as in this case, exposed first-hand to violence then they have a strong tendency to grow up insecure and aggressive. Alice Miller has written several books on this topic and there is pretty much indisputable evidence that Adolf experienced very long-lasting negative psychological effects from domestic violence during his childhood. Same goes for Stalin as well, whose father was a drunkard and beat the crap out of him when he was a child. It should also be noted that Alois Hitler's shame about possibly being part-Jewish are most likely where Adolf developed his hatred for the Judaism. Fatrb38 (talk) 15:02, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

List of books by or about Adolf Hitler might assist as well. 4Russeteer (talk) 13:56, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

Whoa -- Alois was shamed over the possibility of his being part Jewish??? Where in the world does that idea come from?

The "Hitler-part-Jewish" idea, to the best of my knowledge, started solely as a result of the rumors that were circulating after Hitler was a grown man, and that led eventually to motivate Hitler to start the notorious Hans Frank investigation.

Alois died when Adolf was about 14 years old.

There is no reason to believe that Alois held any belief about his biological father's identity, other than what eventually appeared in the official records after his name-change from "Shicklgruber" to "Hitler" at the age of 39: that his step-father Johann Gregor Heidler, who married Maria when Alois was five, was in fact his biological father. Alois' uncle Johann Nepomuk Heidler supported this story in the proceedings before the notary in the legitimization procedure, and there's no reason to believe that he would not have recited the same story to Alois.

If there is any legitimate source at all that claims that Alois had any suspicion whatsoever that his biological father was Jewish, I would love to see it. That would cast a whole new light on this fascinating "part Jewish" issue :-))). SixBlueFish (talk) 21:40, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Suicide: shot in temple or mouth?

This article claims that Hitler shot himself through the mouth. Death of Adolf Hitler claims that he shot himself in the temple. Which is it? Quaternion (talk) 19:14, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

My understanding is that he simultaneously bit down on a cyanide capsule and shot himself in the temple. However, the second citation in this article claims that Hitler did shoot himself in the mouth. However, the claim in the other article is unsourced. Parsecboy (talk) 19:44, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

♠The footnoted source referred to above supporting the "mouth" theory is Trudl Junge, Hitler's youngest secretary, who was indeed in the bunker and who eventually published her memoirs about 60 years after the fact. However, if you look at her book (which is cited in the BBC story, article footnote 265), you'll see that in fact she is just there claiming to recite what she was told by another: she didn't actually see the body and she doesn't claim she did.

A better source may be In Hitler's Bunker: A Boy Soldier's Eyewitness Account of the Fuhrer's Last Days, by Armin D. Lehmann, Tim Carroll (see p. 183, supporting the temple theory, on the basis of reports by the Russians that the jaw was intact and would have blown apart from air pressure if the shot were in the mouth. Maybe that's true, but doesn't the Russian theory presuppose that he closed his mouth over the barrel, creating a sealed chamber? Why is that necessary or even the most common way? They don't always do that in the movies..:-)) ).

Trevor-Roper's fairly contemporaneous press conference in November 1945 (see Lehmann, above) reported that Hitler had shot himself in the mouth.

Toland's book states that Hitler shot himself in the temple.

Most convincing evidence reported by some commentators: both temples were bloody. Hard to see that happening with a shot in the mouth. ♠ SixBlueFish (talk) 20:57, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Since Hitler simultaneously bit down on the cyanide capsole and shot himself in the head, does it even make sense for him to have shot himself in the mouth? From a logical standpoint, the temple makes more sense. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 15:07, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

According to Hugh Trever-Roper, a british intell officer, Hitler shot himself in the mouth. This view is supported by his skull remains found in KGB headquaters: a bullet had passed through his brain and emerged at the top of his skull, this much is certain. Whether he bit down on a cyanode pill is uncertain, although unlikely.Well, would you have space to bite down on a pill with aWalther 7.65 pistol in your mouth?SS71121345 (talk) 10:13, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Document Highlight First Instance of Red Army or refer to them as Soviets

There are only two instances in which the Red Army is referenced in the article, other times they are simply called soviet forces. This should be addressed. Should "Red Army" be maintained, then the first instance should be highlighted 132.170.24.242 (talk) 07:05, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Collaborators with Hitler

The article needs a prominent link to this article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collaboration_during_World_War_II 65.32.128.178 (talk) 20:40, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

Alois and Klara

The article states that Klara was Alois's "half-niece" but instead wasn't she his second cousin (if you believe, at least, the claim that J. Georg Hiedler (JGH) was Alois' biological father)? If that's the case, then the children of the brothers JGH and J. Nepomuk Huetler (JNH) were first cousins; and Klara (as a grandchild of JNH) would be Alois' second cousin, would she not? (or is that what "first cousin once removed" means?)

Of course if JNH were in fact Alois' biological father, then Alois and Klara's mother were half-brother/half-sister and Klara would be Alois' half-niece (and she did call Alois "uncle" through their marriage).

We could unpack all this in a footnote, since it's really not known who Alois' biological Dad is. Opinions? SixBlueFish (talk) 23:09, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Hitler's name - the truth...

Adolf Hitler was born before his mother and father married, therefore he was supposed to take the surname of his mother, Schicklgruber. Adolf Schicklgruber was indeed his true name. However, there is huge doubt as to the mother and father's whereabouts after he was born. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.109.38.27 (talk) 10:37, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Hitler's parents were married several years before he was born. It was his father who was born out of wedlock, not Adolf. As far as I am aware there is no mystery about his parents whereabouts after his birth, but I don't know why their movements would be relevant. Paul B (talk) 13:03, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

+++++ The "truth" comment above -- that Hitler was illegitimate --is a common misunderstanding, one that was fomented in part by war propaganda.

Adolf Hitler was legitimate. He was the fourth (4th) child of the union of Alois and Klara. Those two were married several years before Adolf's birth; their marriage was on 7 January 1885. Adolf Hitler's father -- Alois Hitler -- was illegitimate.

The first child of Alois and Klara (Gustav, who died at age two) was born in May of 1885; and he was thus legitimate (although he was indeed obviously conceived at a time when his parents were unmarried). Adolf -- the fourth child of the Alois-Klara union-- was clearly legitimate and was born in April 1889.

Adolf's mother's maiden name was Polzl, not Schicklgruber. Klara Polzl (eventually to become Klara Polzl Hitler) was born in 1860 as the child of Johann Baptist Potzl and Johanna Hiedler, who married in 1848.

Maria Anna Schicklgruber was the mother of Alois Hitler (not of Adolf Hitler). Alois was illegitimate, and was born in Strones, Maria's home town, in June 1937. There remains considerable speculation on who the biological father actually was.

Five years after Alois' birth, Maria married JGH; thus, JGH was the stepfather of Alois. Was JGH also the natural father of Alois? No one is sure. Alois (having gone the first 39 years of his life by the name of Shicklgruber) was "legitimated" in the official records as a result of the testimony of three witnesses, who claimed that JGH -- who by this time had been dead for almost twenty years--had recognized Alois as his biological son during his (i.e. JGH's) life and that Maria had done the same, and that JGH wanted to make things right and have Alois take the Hitler name.

As a result of these very peculiar machinations -- which Toland asserts was not according to correct legal procedure, because both Maria and JGH were dead at the time and a court case (rather than a simple proceeding before a notary) would have been required to legitimate Alois, an adult of 39 years of age -- Alois' name in the registry was changed from Alois Shicklgruber to Alois Hitler. This was about nine (9) years before Alois and Klara married.

The devious procedure followed by the notary, the parish priest, JNH (who was apparently the instigator of this) and the three witnesses was certainly not according to Hoyle, but there's really no question that it effected the change of name of Alois to be "Alois Hitler."

Of course there is no doubt of the whereabouts of Alois and Klara at any time, either before or after Adolf was born. The person whose whereabouts are in question is JGH, who was the stepfather of Alois. He was an itinerant miller and wandered around in search of work. He apparently just popped in to marry Maria, and then was back on the road. This really has no bearing on anything, except it may be a piece of the puzzle in the Big Question: Who was Alois' biological father? Was it JGH as the "witnesses" in the name-change affair had said? Or was it JNH, with whom Alois lived as a child (from about age 6 onward), and who apparently left Alois money in his will? Or was it just some Unknown Father?

Note: There was speculation after Hitler achieved some prominence that Alois's natural father was a young (19 year old) Jew in Graz, but since the Jews had been expelled from Graz around 1500 and did not return until about 20 years after Alois' birth, this seems quite unlikely to most historians. The fascinating story of Hitler's obsession with this story, however, and the investigations of Hans Frank (Hitler's lawyer) on the same, should not be missed!

So: Does anyone have a suggestion about the question raised initially, i.e. how to explain the blood relationship (if any) between Klara and Alois? SixBlueFish (talk) 16:59, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

---

Isnt his true birth name Adolfus Hitler? I know theres no middle name but I could have sworn and read and seen a copy of his birth certificate where it says Adolfus and not just Adolf. If true it should be listed under the "given name" area. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.92.230.135 (talk) 01:34, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

Yes, that is true. Some biographies mention it; some don't. SixBlueFish (talk) 14:07, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Hitler's WWI Army Rank

A German Corporal was equal to a US Army Private First Class (One Chevron) (Ustye (talk) 09:30, 20 February 2009 (UTC))

Hitler was a Gefreiter the equivalent a Lance corporal in the British army during WW1. The rank is now equivalent to OR-2, a private or E-2, the American private. But we should use the rank it was equivalent to at the time which is a Lance corporal (British and USMC) or a Private First Class (US Army). He did not hold the rank of FULL Corporal. Gaia Octavia Agrippa ^Talk | _Sign 15:04, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

The Holocaust template

I'm curious why this article is not tagged by the holocaust template? I see in the Encyclopedia of the Holocaust his biography too.--138.88.15.10 (talk) 02:11, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Because for the same reason we wouldn't put the history of Germany or a million other templates on this page. He's not directly related to that subject matter. The article is on his life and the Holocaust, while an important part of his legacy, is not the central focus on the article. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 05:16, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

• Hitler's biography is not equivalent to the Germany's history nor one million people. This is really shameful to see that this biography is not marked by the Holocaust tag!--138.88.15.10 (talk) 20:16, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

An error in the article about Hitler's "incarceration" et alia

There is an error in the article. Adolph Hitler was not incarcerated in Landsberg Prison, he was however, made to live in Landsberg Castle during the term of his "incarceration."

Here is a picture of Hitler taken upon release from his quite comfy "prison" I apologize, I don't have the time or tolerance to make the picture work, I usually stay away from wiki markup syntax...but that is a link to the picture.

http://www.history.ucsb.edu/faculty/marcuse/classes/33d/33dWImages/HitlerReleasedLandsbergCar1924Dec550pxw.png

There has been some recent evidence come to light concerning the Bush family ties to the Nazi regime, namely that George W. Bush's grandfather was a financier of the Third Reich through Fritz Thyssen. This is an issue I'd like exposed...like father, like son, right on down the line.

Furthermore, there is no conclusive evidence that Adolph Hitler died as history claims he did. I just looked at the photos of his "corpse" and compared them to photos of him alive. One big dyscongruity strikes me: the ears. The ears of the corpse look more like the car-door ears of comedian Martin Lawrence than they do of Adolph Hitler. One facet of forensic science today is using the ears as a means to further identify someone. The ears in the photos don't match Hitler, but not only that, the corpse looks ridiculous! To my discerning eye, it doesn't look at all like Hitler, but more like an attempt to fake his death. That outcome would indeed coincide with his grooming during the "incarceration" at Landsberg Castle.

And a final question that is bugging me, suppose that Adolph Hitler's death was in fact, faked, and taking into account that Prescott Bush financed Hitler's regime somewhat, I wonder if George H. W. Bush or George W. Bush have met Adolph personally? He would be 120 years old if he were alive this year, but there is plenty of room post-WWII for the Bush family and the Hitler family to become acquainted.

The only reason I am even writing this is because of a series of videos I watched on Youtube by Amenstop Productions. The link is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAcxGD6-c-E for the first of 29...a lot of it makes perfect sense, but some does get kind of outlandish. But just because some is ridiculous doesn't mean it all is BS.

ElanTedronai (talk) 21:27, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

There actually is conclusive evidence Hitler died in his Berlin bunker, his skull fragments in KGB headquarters, Moscow. His body was cremated with his wife's and buried. It is true though that Russian Red Army soldiers found remains like Hitlers, but belonged to a bdy double, perhaps explaining the odd ears. In case there is any doubt that the skull on dispaly is Hitlers, dental records confirm that they belong to Adlof Hitler.SS71121345 (talk) 10:20, 8 March 2009 (UTC)