Talk:Simon Ekpa

Noting 2

Recent editor Olivia Harry has shockingly been blocked for sockpuppeting. [1] Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 14:23, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

Article wordings changing request

With Simon Ekpa violence and unrest in Southeast Nigeria with his new rebel thugd, I think there should be a more suitable ways to describe him. Instead of.....

Simon Ekpa (born 21 March 1985) is a Finnish local politician, lawyer and former Nigerian athlete. He is one of the current leaders of the Biafra independence movement and the designated Prime Minister of the Biafra Republic Government in Exile (BRGIE) organization.

It should be.....

Simon Ekpa (born 21 March 1985) is a Finnish local politician, lawyer and former Nigerian athlete.He is one of the current leaders of the Biafra independence movement, the founder of the militia rebel group Biafra Liberation Army (BLA) and the designated Prime Minister of the self proclaimed Biafra Republic Government in Exile (BRGIE) organization. Johnefx (talk) 06:48, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

Since the BLA is a very new thing, and the sources, such as they are and afaik, basically boils down to "Ekpa says this and Ekpa says that" atm, I don't think it's necessary to mention them in the WP:LEAD at this point. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:20, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

They are actually not new thing, prior to their official announcement by Simon Ekpa they have a different identity called unknown gunmen. I live in the region and I can attest to that, they have been involved in massive killings of innocent civilian including the uniform men in their thoughts of enforcing sit at home in the region. Though their are not enough evidence for the media against them as they always carried their whole operations Anonymously, but civilians like me should be enough to testify against them. Indeed it just look like they were born on October 2023 when Simon Ekpa officially announced them but in reality they have long established as unknown gunmen UGM. Hence I think a terror group like this should be properly explained on all related pages. Simon Ekpa have been properly portrayed on Wikipedia while he is actually a terror leader. So for me I think his page should be totally reformed including all his evil deeds, and yes they are many source out their we might find some evidence. Thanks. Johnefx (talk) 09:21, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

WP:ISAWIT doesn't help on this website, unfortunately. You have to seek out other parts of the internet to tell this story. Here WP:BLP is very important. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:35, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

this source are all point towards Simon ekpa as a master of terror.

, and there are many more evidence to prove that. Johnefx (talk) 09:50, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

Now that's a start. I'll take a look at these, but maybe not today. Perhaps other editors will too. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:01, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

Alright thanks, I will try to provide more source in the future. Johnefx (talk) 10:03, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

I'm still looking, but I've used some of these sources. Have a read through the article and see what you think. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:22, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

User:Johnefx was blocked for sockpuppetry. Wikishovel (talk) 10:35, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

Every new editor on this and related articles appears to be a sock, but fwiw, I think both pro and con Ekpa people are socking. Sources are sources. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:39, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

There's no distinction made by admins between pro and con socks: WP:BMB. Wikishovel (talk) 10:45, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

And a good thing too. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:47, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

@Wikishovel, feel free to add something to this article about what Biafra is. I think you did that in the BLA article. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 19:42, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

Done, please feel free to edit as you see fir fur. Wikishovel (talk) 19:54, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

Nah, on my street it's mostly maple. ;-) Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 20:07, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

Corrected! Wikishovel (talk) 20:39, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

I have some potential replies but they'll stay in my head. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 20:42, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

References

10 March 2024

I did a minor edit on the Wikipedia:Lead of the article, enhancing the readability and clarity of the Lead, removed potential tautology and added updated reference. Though this is a minor edit but I thought it would make more sense to put it on the Talk Page. Editors can review the RS and add more clarity and readability.

Infobox: Added title of "Prime Minister", other names parameter (Ifeanyi).Fugabus (talk) 18:59, 10 March 2024 (UTC)

I reverted you:[2]. And the Infobox should not state Prime Minister. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:41, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

Fugabus, that was not a minor edit, and it's unclear where a potential tautology was removed. Wikishovel (talk) 09:49, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

Hey @Wikishovel The potential tautology in the provided in the lead is the phrase "Biafra Republic Government in Exile (BRGIE) organization." The term "government in exile" typically implies an organization or group working for the interests of a government that is not currently in power or is in exile. Therefore, including both "government in exile" and "organization" may be redundant. You may see my edits to rephrase them for clarity again. Unnecessary sentences should be removed. It's my own opinion though.Fugabus (talk) 14:08, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

Actually, for clarity, we can just remove PM from lead and just leave "leader". It's not that important what an org calls the leader, PM just muddles things. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:00, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

@Gråbergs Gråa Sång, you reverted the whole edits. In your own opinion, PM may be to to muddle things but generally it clarified things. See Polish government in exile and their first PM General Władysław Sikorski I don't just edit, I make research prior to editing on Wikipedia. I didn't add only PM on the infobox, I added the Notes, other names and modified the pronunciation name. I saw you literally reverted everything from the lead. I will make adjustments. Welcome Fugabus (talk) 14:06, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

If future biographers state that Ekpa and Władysław Raczkiewicz are very comparable individuals, we'll deal with it then. For now, comparing Ekpa's 2023 org with the Polish government in exile is very much WP:OTHERCONTENT. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 06:32, 15 April 2024 (UTC)

For the interested

Ekpa content is being added at Biafra. Which is not in theory unreasonable, but current text like "In a significant move to declare the restoration of the Republic of Biafra, Biafran Government was restored on 08 April 2023 with the establishment of Biafra Republic Government in Exile." is. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:20, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

Gråbergs Gråa Sång, I saw that too. The one thing there is that, in the Nigerian context, the article meets GNG. So, I would edit it and watch incoming IPs or editors. — Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 05:50, 15 April 2024 (UTC)

I'm in no way suggesting Biafra does not meet GNG. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 06:18, 15 April 2024 (UTC)

Gråbergs Gråa Sång, I wasn't saying you insinuated either. The article has a lot to fix, I've tried the lead & Early life.... I may come back to this but not now. Thanks for your active fight against vandalism. Regards :-) — Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 07:35, 15 April 2024 (UTC)

I don't suppose you read Finnish either? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 07:39, 15 April 2024 (UTC)

Calling Ekpa Prime Minister in wiki-voice

In case anyone wants to discuss it/have an opinion, I argue that him being called PM by an org he started last year does not make him a Prime Minister. When the AU or UN refers to him that way, that's more interesting. For the WP:LEAD, "leader" is reasonable atm. Details in the body.

Sources differ in their approach, and it's not that easy to tell what is WP:RS, but caveats are fairly common:[3][4][5]. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 07:55, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

@Gråbergs Gråa Sång, I suspect meatpuppetry here. Biafra topics are always bombarded with trolls, vandals and POV pushers and would suggest you stop feeding them. It would be helpful if the page is protected indefinitely for extended confirmed users. Best, Reading Beans 08:27, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

I don't disagree, but the AGF is strong in this one. This is a WP:BLP and we should get things WP-right if we can. And I really agree on the protection suggestion. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:36, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

Also, you started this article, so you're to blame ;-) Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:47, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

AGF is what they always use to penetrate, you know. Our revert button shouldn’t be hesitated to be pushed when they come. Can you request for pp yourself?

Also, I’m sorry for creating the page! :)

Best, Reading Beans 03:54, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

"Not enough recent disruptive activity to justify protection." Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 05:59, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

We seem to have deviated from the subject of the topic opened. Prime Minister or Leader? I opine that Prime Minister is more preferable for clarity purposes base on and the meaning of Government-in-exile on Wikipedia and the RS supports it. UN and AU have not disputed him for now per se meaning of government-in-exile and the Exile government started in 1970 when Odumegwu Ojukwu their President fled to Exile in Ivory coast. So, Prime Minister is more strong but he's not prime minister of a an independent country atm. He's a prime minister of a semi-sovereign country called Biafra. I hope that helps. Fugabus (talk) 12:40, 22 April 2024 (UTC)

@Fugabus, the article is fine the way it reads. Adding PM will add confuse to the mind of our readers. Best, Reading Beans 16:06, 22 April 2024 (UTC)

May I disagree with you Reading Beans? Adding PM will clarify the status instead of confusing readers. PM is more straight to the point instead of Leader as Leader has never been used in government-in-exile. We have had Governments in Exile in the past and they were all addressed by their title in their Wikipedia article page Lead. Let's be factual instead of being ficticious guys. Sentiments aside! Fugabus (talk) 18:31, 22 April 2024 (UTC)

Reliable sources seem to use the term "self-proclaimed Prime Minister" or "self-acclaimed Prime Minister". I have no objection to using either of those titles because they automatically attribute the claim to the article subject rather than put Wikipedia in the position of asserting he is "Prime Minister" in Wikipedia's narrative voice. ~Anachronist (talk) 02:49, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

@Anachronist Thank you. The point me and Reading Beans is making is that it is better to leave this terminology to the body, since sources are a bit mixed and precision takes more words. There's a fair amount of drive by-edits like [6], which did add a source, a very positive article from WP:IBTIMES. There is also the fun "fact" that since he (cleverly?) named his org "government in exile", then, at least according to WP, it is a government in exile (like the Polish government-in-exile, see above thread), which is reaffirmed every time a source mentions it by name. Nevermind that Ekpa was born in 1985. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 05:25, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

The problem here is that the lead doesn't summmarize the body text. I made an attempt just now to rectify that, changing the lead paragraph to say "He appointed himself Prime Minister of the organization he leads, the Biafra Republic Government in Exile (BRGIE), which he founded in 2023." That is an objective fact we can say in Wikipedia's voice. ~Anachronist (talk) 13:55, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

And I think "leader" is a reasonable summary of "variously referred to him as "Prime Minister" or "self-acclaimed Prime Minister" of BRGIE". All in all, I don't see this as an improvement. But at least "self appointed" is in there. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 15:19, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

@Anachronist

I believe the source from Suomen Kuvalehti [1 is more strong and overrides all other former sources. The source is coming from Finland and it is the most recent one. It would be notable to add Prime Minister and government-in-exile to differentiate between a sovereign nation and also to clear readers. Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Lead section should be applied as it will enhance clarity and not muddle it. It meets GNG We all should remember what WP:Lead says "The lead should identify the topic and summarize the body of the article with appropriate weight." Fugabus (talk) 14:05, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

@Anachronist

Your edit on the Lead is seen. I would like to add clarity and readability to it since we have unanimously established here that he is the Prime Minister of the government-in-exile

Best regards Fugabus (talk) 14:12, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

You did not add clarity. That he appointed himself to lead the org he founded is very relevant. And you have an interesting use of "unanimously". Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 15:17, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

Also, on that one source you like, it seems it originally had ”Biafran pääministeri” in quote marks [7], indicating some skepticism. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 16:17, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

The article uses term such as he is prime minister in some ppl's eyes, also that he himself claim the title. Not that he unquestionably is the recognized pm by all. Then also gives a direct quote from Ekpa himself, ”Minä, Biafran pakolaisministeriön pääministeri, tuon teille uutisia toivosta.” or translated by me "Me, of Biafras ministry of exile's prime minister, bring you news of hope". he uses pakolaisministeriö (ministry of exile), instead of pakolaishallitus (government of exile). Insinuating he has a boss prime minister, president etc. somewhere. Just confusing. Maybe it's a genuine mistake by him and he means pakolaishallitus. The article uses government of exile instead of Ekpa though. Kennet.mattfolk (talk) 18:45, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

Per that article, he could be thinking of Nnamdi Kanu, "I am in contact with Kanu every day." That's me guessing. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 18:50, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

Hello @Gråbergs Gråa Sång

Editors on Wikipedia base their edits on sources but it seems you are editing out of the RS. "It's your own point of view".See the sources I saw before making that little tweak edit. 1 2. He was appointed and not He appointed himself. According to the reportage, he announced his announcement which made it to be covered in the mainstream media as rightly contained under in the "Activism and separatism" section of the article. I withdraw the use of the word "unanimously" but pease abide and stop muddling context. I do not rather disagree with your point of view edits but would suggest you read Wikipedia Wikipedia:Manual of Style before reverting me again or reach my talk page to discuss my edits. I feel bullied right now and whenever my whole edits are being reverted and not being improved. TBH, I feel discouraged to continue to improve the English Wikipedia but I must continue regardless. You should be encouraging me and point out corrections while referring me to one or more guidelines and policies on editing I know I am a new editor but you scare me away and not being friendly as you should be with new editors on Wikipedia.

Sincerely,

Fugabus (talk) 19:23, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

On "Biafran pääministeri" contained at the top of that Finnish source, it is called Clickbait in journalism and readers aren't skeptical. That you are skeptical is your own point of view anyways and I leave that for you. Wish you could just take out time to educate yourself on politics and journalism in this case.

Best regards, Fugabus (talk) 19:24, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

Who appointed him? He did. Why dispute or whitewash a fact that is already reported in reliable sources? It is an undeniable fact that he appointed himself as Prime Minister. Nobody is denying that he is Prime Minister. The fact that we have multiple sources pointing out that he declared himself to be Prime Minister is relevant. The lead should summarize the body, and the body clearly says he is self-appointed, an objective undeniable fact that is backed up by multiple sources. ~Anachronist (talk) 19:40, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

@Fugabus

Whaat? Kuvalehti isn't really in the clickbait business, it is a bit of an posh magazine, high quality, limited circulation/readership. The comment I posted where more about what the article says and not my own opinion. It's right there in the article. The article goes through the disputes with IPOB and then states:

"Oli miten oli, Ekpa on nyt ainakin joidenkin pääministeri." or translated by me "Be it as it may, Ekpa is now at least the prime minister by some", with connotation/emphasis of joidenkin (by some) meaning not by all. Kennet.mattfolk (talk) 19:56, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

To everyone, if someone wakes up and declares himself President of New Amsterdam, would we acknowledge this in wikivoice? I guess not. Now, that is what is happening here. Being the leader as written by Gråbergs Gråa Sång makes sense to me. Best, Reading Beans 20:10, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

I would write it as just that and trust the reader, something like "claimed Prime Minister" or similar, with a qualifier in-front of the 'prime minister' title. Then add ref so reader can investigate themselves. Kennet.mattfolk (talk) 20:21, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

Someone else want to revert the whitewashing this time? [8] Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 22:05, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

I added ref pointing to the edit for readers to see. This should not be considered whitewashing but should be seen edit based on Wikipedia Censorship issue. The body of the article has saved a lot.

My regards

Fugabus (talk) 22:19, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

The legal stuff?

[9] "It also turned out that Ekpa had marketed legal services, even though he is not a lawyer. His consulting firm had handled the affairs of asylum seekers, and the asylum seekers had mistaken him for their assistant. In fact, the cases were handled by Ekpa's ex-wife, although the clients had never met the lawyer's wife. " (Google translate) Is this something we should include, or does it fail WP:PROPORTION etc? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 16:56, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

In Finnish law, he is not allowed to represent clients in court, but only allowed/licensed to give legal advice. The client then needs another to lawyer in court. This is why many finnish sources say he's a businessman instead of an lawyer.

Did quick google: https://yle.fi/a/74-20019718

It talk about his legal firm. The article specifically states "ulkomaalaislakiin erikoistuneena asiantuntijana" or Expert specialized into foreign law, the word asiantuntija should be should be 'asianajaja' or 'lupalakimies' if he was a lawyer. He is maybe a legal advisor. The article expressly also states he is not an lawyer (asianajaja). Kennet.mattfolk (talk) 18:16, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

In your article linked only his wife is mentioned as a lawyer. Kennet.mattfolk (talk) 18:23, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

From the Yle source, they reported he specializes in Immigration law. So, any editor can add that. Lead may read "immigration lawyer" instead of "lawyer" for clarity. Fugabus (talk) 22:26, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

Immigration lawyer is still a lawyer, and Kennet.mattfolk just said he's not a lawyer. "Legal proffesional"? "Legal worker"? Or does that read like he's working in the courts? Which maybe he is, I have no idea. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 05:06, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

A note on socking in this article

Of the 10 editors listed under "Top 10 by added text" at [10], 4 are blocked for socking, and 2 more just indeffed. As editing environment, it's not great. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 05:18, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

Violence in the WP:LEAD?

There is quite a bit of violence mentioned in the Simon_Ekpa#Activism_and_separatism section. Should we add something on it in the lead, and if so, how? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 05:21, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

We also skipped the fact that he was dismissed by IPOB, this is what gave him attention in the first place.

According to Ekpa, IPOB was dissolved in a vote, renamed "Autopilot", and he became it's spokesman. Zubairu Dada, Nigerian minister, said the same year that "When [Ekpa] gives instructions, destruction follows. They cause killing, maiming, fires, whatever."—this statement by Dada is no joke. Vehicles, buildings, businesses were burned down with the supposed instructions from Ekpa. I have not really edited the article for a long time to avoid being bias. It was his violence that made the media to notice him.

Thank you for pointing this out, I have been so out of touch that I forgot. Best, Reading Beans 06:06, 26 April 2024 (UTC)