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* '''Merge both''' per nom. –[[User:Aidan721|Aidan721]] ([[User talk:Aidan721|talk]]) 19:21, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
* '''Merge both''' per nom. –[[User:Aidan721|Aidan721]] ([[User talk:Aidan721|talk]]) 19:21, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
* '''Question''' - how many categories in this tree can I add and how many articles to abort this proposal? 3 are not enough?[[User:Greyshark09|'''''GreyShark''''']] ([[User talk:Greyshark09|''dibra'']]) 11:48, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
* '''Question''' - how many categories in this tree can I add and how many articles to abort this proposal? 3 are not enough?[[User:Greyshark09|'''''GreyShark''''']] ([[User talk:Greyshark09|''dibra'']]) 11:48, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
*'''Merge''' -- Usual solution for small categories. The normal minimum is five. I have occasionally argued for less where there is no obvious merge target, but usually there is one. [[User:Peterkingiron|Peterkingiron]] ([[User talk:Peterkingiron|talk]]) 17:48, 26 December 2023 (UTC)


==== Cultural depictions of Byzantine princesses ====
==== Cultural depictions of Byzantine princesses ====

Revision as of 17:48, 26 December 2023

< December 23
December 25 >

December 24

Category:15th-century actors by nationality

Nominator's rationale: Upmerge for now. This is the only category in the parent ( 15th-century actors ), which isn't helpful for navigation Mason (talk) 22:06, 24 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Free and open-source software programmed in C

Nominator's rationale: Upmerge because parent category already contains only open-source software. Deltaspace42 (talk • contribs) 18:59, 24 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Nigerian films about Alzheimer's disease

Nominator's rationale: Dual merge. This category is not helpful for navigation. There's only one page in each category. Mason (talk) 17:58, 24 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Merge per nom. Omnis Scientia (talk) 18:55, 24 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:List of railroad of the United States by state or territory

Nominator's rationale: Previous move introduced grammar errors which would be corrected by this move. Courtesy ping to User:Aidan721. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 17:22, 24 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support, could be speedied. Mason (talk) 17:34, 24 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Just nominate speedy. –Aidan721 (talk) 19:16, 24 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Ah, I wasn't sure if this was speedy eligible, I'm not that familiar with CfD procedures. Thanks for nominating it for me, and I'll keep this in mind going forward. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 18:37, 25 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Australian mid-20th century modern painters

Nominator's rationale: Dual merge. I don't think that the intersection between century, nationality, and artistic movement is defining. If kept, it should be renamed Australian modern painters Mason (talk) 02:42, 16 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Merge target(s)?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 17:08, 24 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:1190s establishments in the Ayyubid Sultanate

Nominator's rationale: Dual merge. Not helpful for navigation to only have one page in here Mason (talk) 02:52, 16 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 09:25, 16 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose obviously a redundant cleaning work for a category which could be expanded and populalated. Just added another entry and more establishments in 12th century Ayyubid Sultanate. Those maintanance deletions of cateogories which can be populated (easily) is not helpful for Wikipedia.GreyShark (dibra) 18:58, 21 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge Still not enough to justify diffusion beyond the century level. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 03:58, 24 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 17:07, 24 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment @Greyshark09, LaundryPizza03, and Marcocapelle: added another category with same issue.Mason (talk) 18:22, 24 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge both per nom. –Aidan721 (talk) 19:21, 24 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Question - how many categories in this tree can I add and how many articles to abort this proposal? 3 are not enough?GreyShark (dibra) 11:48, 26 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge -- Usual solution for small categories. The normal minimum is five. I have occasionally argued for less where there is no obvious merge target, but usually there is one. Peterkingiron (talk) 17:48, 26 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Cultural depictions of Byzantine princesses

Nominator's rationale: merge, redundant category layer with only two subcategories, and each has only one article about the subject herself. Marcocapelle (talk) 11:47, 16 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 17:04, 24 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support per nom. Mason (talk) 17:35, 24 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Musicals originally directed by George Abbott

Nominator's rationale: As at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2019 December 22#Category:Musicals directed by George Abbott (where note that both Abbott and Robbins have been tried before, making those two recreations of previously deleted categories), this is a non-defining characteristic that's essentially a WP:PERFCAT.
Unlike films, theatrical plays can have literally hundreds or thousands of new productions, each with a different director -- but they aren't more defined by who directed the first production than by who directed the second, third, fifth, five hundredth or ten thousandth productions. (Also, plays can sometimes have small regional productions in smaller theatre markets before working their way up to the Broadway/West End level — meaning that a play's first production and its fame-making major-theatre-mecca production aren't necessarily always the same thing, rendering "originally directed" categories effectively unmaintainable for accuracy.)
So until all of these were created in the past couple of weeks, we simply didn't have any comprehensive scheme of categorizing stage productions by the identity of their directors, first or otherwise -- and, again, we already deleted the only prior attempt to start a new one. Noteworthy productions can certainly be listed in the directors' articles, if they aren't already, but it isn't a useful or defining point of categorization. Bearcat (talk) 17:06, 25 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Bearcat. I would respectfully disagree. Directors are absolutely crucial in theatre during the development of a work because that is when the script is still evolving. I believe most histories of theatre works would support this. For instance, Mike Nichols was absolutely crucial to the evolution of Neil Simon's plays when Nichols directed it. Jerome Robbins, Hap Prince and George Abbott were frequently considered co-creators of musicals they directed. This is indeed reflected in the fact they typically get a permanent royalty for these plays. The original directors have only been listed when they are major directors and where the directors definitely directed the first productions. I absolutely take your point that directors should be not credited where they did not do the first perfomannce (eg Mike Nicols directed the Broadway debut of many plays that had been performed elsewhere - these are not included). I feel the entries for many plays and musicals on wikipedia are under-categorised, and categorising them by director, if the director is key, could be extremely useful. (I should also add I appreciate that you made your points with conciseness, grace and courtesy!) Britfilm (talk) 10:05, 26 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The problem is that Wikipedia editors do not typically pay attention to nuanced usage notes, and simply add articles to any category they think applicable and walk away without making any effort to see if they're doing it wrong. So people would absolutely add any play ever directed by Mike Nichols at all to his category if he directed the production they'd heard of, without undertaking any investigation of whether he actually directed the first production or not — which makes the categories unmaintainable, because we have no viable way to ensure that the category only gets used correctly and never gets used incorrectly. Bearcat (talk) 21:45, 7 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment (no oppose), I do not think that WP:PERFCAT applies because that is typically used to discourage categorization by performance rather than to discourage categorization of performances. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:48, 26 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Yes, thank you Marcocapelle - the intent was to limit categorisation to where the director was involved in the inception of the work. For instance, it would be silly to categorise directors of works by, say, Shakespeare. But for directors involved in the original productions of work, I feel it would be very useful. Thank you. Britfilm (talk) 10:07, 26 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 13:03, 16 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete Theoretically this might be useful, in practice Bearcat's point that it is difficult to get right overrides that value. * Pppery * it has begun... 00:38, 24 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Delete per @Pppery Mason (talk) 17:36, 24 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 15:35, 24 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per Pppery. Omnis Scientia (talk) 22:27, 24 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Sikhism in the United States by state

Nominator's rationale: Only covers two states and not heavily populated; contains one category and two articles respectively. Delete the first two and merge the remaining with parent categories. Omnis Scientia (talk) 15:04, 24 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Kentucky Territory judges

Nominator's rationale: Upmerge for now. Only one person in the entire Kentucky Territory Tree Mason (talk) 14:46, 24 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Merge per nom. Omnis Scientia (talk) 18:54, 24 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • No objection, as category creator. Upon reviewing the history of the matter, Kentucky was admitted as a new state very shortly after splitting from Virginia (which was already a state), and therefore had a very short time as a territory. It appears that the lone subject of this category was the only person who was officially the territorial judge of this territory. BD2412 T 15:36, 24 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Michigan Pioneers

Nominator's rationale: Upmerge for now. There's only one category in here, which isn't helpful for navigation Mason (talk) 14:41, 24 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Merge per nom. Omnis Scientia (talk) 22:28, 24 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:1816 Illinois Territory elections

Nominator's rationale: Upmerge for now. There is only a redirect in here. Mason (talk) 14:26, 24 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:American people of Mexican descent by state

Nominator's rationale: Has only one category which, in turn, has only two. Delete the two parent categories and merge dual merge the two subcats with their respective state categories the categories mentioned. Omnis Scientia (talk) 11:12, 24 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Bahá'í Faith in the United States

Nominator's rationale: Delete Minnesota category; contains only one article. Upmerge parent category. Omnis Scientia (talk) 10:46, 24 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Japanese pages

Nominator's rationale: Overlapping category. There's no page occupation. The Page (servant) is in the Domestic work category. Mason (talk) 21:07, 16 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 09:44, 24 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

People by populated place in the United States

Nominator's rationale: rename, with splitter at the end like we usually have, and with "American people" similar to parent Category:American people by location. Follow-up on this earlier discussion: Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2023_December_1#Category:People_from_the_United_States_by_state. Marcocapelle (talk) 22:41, 16 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
copy of speedy discussion
Also, this category has been renamed in full discussion: Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2023_October_1#X_by_Y_in_Z. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:44, 2 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Marcocapelle, I would indeed agree that it should be "American people by" but shouldn't that be discussed at full Cfd, since the rest of the categories in Category:People by populated place in the United States also stated with "People of the United States by..."?
Also, I don't think this particular category was discussed in the discussion you linked. Omnis Scientia (talk) 09:44, 3 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Yes, it was, see [1]. Marcocapelle (talk) 14:03, 3 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Ah, I completely missed that. Thank you! I wasn't aware of this. But I would say that the other categories should also be named with such a format. Omnis Scientia (talk) 14:15, 3 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • and support alt rename below for relevant categories. –Aidan721 (talk) 19:18, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
There's no reason we should leave out Washington D.C., historic territories and insular areas. Agree with using American people. Place Clichy (talk) 02:45, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Marcocapelle, your opinion on these ones. I'm rather torn because they specifically point to populated places in states.
Washington, D.C. would have areas within it but likely no city or town or village, etc. and the insular areas have their own divisions in Category:People by insular area of the United States. So I think this is a seperate conversation. Omnis Scientia (talk) 10:43, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • I am aware that many categories are currently being renamed from "by state" to "by state or territory". I do not have a particular opinion about it, apart from preferring to maintain consistency. Marcocapelle (talk) 12:57, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 09:43, 24 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Qwerfjkl, support alt rename as well as the original nom. Omnis Scientia (talk) 11:15, 24 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Cultural depictions of female monarchs

Nominator's rationale: Follow up to Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2023_November_28#Category:Cultural_depictions_of_noblemen Mason (talk) 06:29, 15 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Merge per nom. Omnis Scientia (talk) 13:33, 15 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Manually merge per nom, per WP:OCEGRS. Most content is already in a country subcategory of the target, hence manual. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:35, 15 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Spliting by gender is the most logical spliting there is, especially historically, almost nothing defines a monarchs life as much.★Trekker (talk) 10:29, 15 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Country defines a monarch much more, I would rather argue that monarchs of the same gender of different countries have nothing in common. Marcocapelle (talk) 12:12, 15 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 09:41, 24 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep. This seems to be a perfectly reasonable division of the content. BD2412 T 15:37, 24 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Fictional Tamil people

Nominator's rationale: delete for now, category contains only one character for whom Tamil ethnicity isn't particularly defining. The article is already in Category:Fictional American characters of Indian descent.
Nominator's rationale: delete for now, category contains only one character for whom Punjabi ethnicity isn't particularly defining. The article is already in Category:Fictional American characters of Pakistani descent. Marcocapelle (talk) 00:00, 16 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep both. How is ethnicity "non-defining"? I reject this notion of deleting categories just because they are "small". I'm sure that you could sort through Category:Fictional Indian people and Category:Fictional Pakistani people and find multiple more examples of Bengali, Punjabi, Tamil, etc characters too. AHI-3000 (talk) 00:07, 16 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Tamil and Punjabi ethnicity was defining for the characters' ancestors who lived in India and Pakistan, but for someone living in the United States it is rather trivial. Marcocapelle (talk) 00:33, 16 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    I checked the sole page within Category:Fictional Punjabi people (Bilqees Kaur); the subject is apparently about a Pakistani Punjabi Sikh immigrant and revolves around the title character's ethnic/religious identity, so I do not think that's a non-defining characteristic. AHI-3000 (talk) 02:00, 16 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Regardless of whether this is defining for the characters, we don't have enough to support these categories. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 05:11, 16 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 09:39, 24 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Cultural depictions by nationality and gender‎

more categories nominated
Nominator's rationale: merge per WP:OCEGRS, a split of cultural depictions by gender is rather trivial and cultural depictions of men of any nationality or of women of any nationality are not a notable topic in themselves. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:52, 25 December 2023 (UTC) (signed a day later)[reply]
  • Merge per nom. Also, @Mason, I think you forgot to sign the Cfd. I don't know whether it is important/required but I thought I should let you know either way. Omnis Scientia (talk) 18:36, 24 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support per nom. Actually this isn't me. It's too nicely organized 🤣 Mason (talk) 18:43, 24 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Smasongarrison, sorry! I guess I misread the page history 😅 ! Omnis Scientia (talk) 18:53, 24 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Circle (TV network) affiliates

Nominator's rationale: OTA network is going away 12/31; becoming a FAST service Mvcg66b3r (talk) 06:21, 24 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Assassinated monarchs by time

Nominator's rationale: Upmerge for now. This category isn't helpful for navigation Mason (talk) 03:51, 24 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge per nom, also considering that the parent category contains very few subcategories. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:50, 24 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Assassinated Caribbean monarchs

Nominator's rationale: Upmerge. extremely narrow category, there isn't even a Caribbean monarchs category... Mason (talk) 03:47, 24 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Immigrant ships to Western Australia

Nominator's rationale: Upmerge for now. There is only one ship in here, which isn't helpful for navigation Mason (talk) 03:15, 24 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Ankara Keçiörengücü SK

Nominator's rationale: To be consistent with the home page title Sakiv (talk) 02:55, 24 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Muslim women

Nominator's rationale: Overlapping category where the name encourages egrs Mason (talk) 02:22, 24 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Muslim women musicians

Nominator's rationale: No need to have this intersect with gender Mason (talk) 02:21, 24 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Muslim women by occupation

Nominator's rationale: Unhelpful for navigation with only one category in here: also WP:EGRS/R Mason (talk) 02:21, 24 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Patent holders

Nominator's rationale: Overlapping category. Inventor is defining, while holding a patent isn't really as much Mason (talk) 01:52, 24 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Merge per nom. Omnis Scientia (talk) 11:16, 24 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge, a patent merely confirms the inventorship, it is not a stand alone defining characteristic. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:14, 24 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment this is wrong. Patent trolls are patent holder but not inventors. In corporate contexts, the inventor is not the employer but the employee, however the entity holding the rights to the invention is the employer. Thus the filer would be the employer, who may sell the patent to a patent troll, which would then be the patent holder, and not any sort of inventor. Thus, persons, R&D sections of corporations, and patent trolls could be categorized. What is the purpose of "patent holder" categories, is it for patent holders, in which case it is not in any way similar to inventors. -- 65.92.247.66 (talk) 01:40, 26 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • While that may be true in many cases, these categories only contain individuals, not companies. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:55, 26 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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