Talk:Charles Proteus Steinmetz

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Untitled[edit]

I have heard the tale of Steimetz and the faulty generator. I have also heard it told of others. Can anyone document that this happened to someone? Rich J 16:48 1 Jun 2003 (UTC)

snopes doesn't seem very impressed either - andrew cooke—Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.74.80.253 (talk) 19:04, 18 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I read about it in "The Man Who Tamed Lightning." I have found a transcription online at this website. The story is right at the end. It really seems more in character for him than for the other people the story has be attributed to. Just my two cents. Eoseth—Preceding undated comment added by Eoseth (talk • contribs) 03:55, 17 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

There is a John Dos Passos´ literary text about Charles Proteus Steinmetz. The title of the text is "Proteus", and it is included in the Martin Gardner´s compilation The sacred beetle.Randroide 12:59, 19 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Pioneer of AC?[edit]

I believe the statement from this article that says, He fostered the development of alternating current that made possible the expansion of the electric power industry in the United States is wrong.

First and foremost the man who ushered in AC to the US industry was Nikola Tesla who also invented the first workable motors/generators for AC. All of the early AC patents are in Tesla's name. AC was strongly opposed by Edison whose company was merged with another to form General Electric. They originally merged so that they could combat Tesla's investor (Westinghouse) over the DC/AC controversy.

Since GE was opposed to AC power generation in their inception, I find it very suspect that one of GE's engineers "ushered in AC" to the US industry. Most likely GE hired this guy to help them convert from DC to AC generation when they realized they were losing the battle. I suggest that, that statement be removed from the article, or altered to better reflect his contributions to the electric field and the US economy. I will remove it in a week if there are no objections and/or changes Grundle 19:02, 26 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well..."fostered the development" does NOT mean "ushered in". As I recall Tesla was obsessed with wireless power transmission using AC. Yes his contributions were significant. Steinmetz made serious mathematically based contributions that fostered [Quoted Def- To promote the growth and development of; cultivate: See Synonyms at advance] significant advances in applied theory that helped concepts such as the transmission of power over lines for distribution. While I understand your caution, we have no conflict nor inaccuracies here. Regardless of GE's motives, Steinmetz's accomplishments stand in the end. See the list of his papers and patents in the article... -- --Steve 17:28, 27 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Tesla DEMONSTRATED AC motors to the American Institute of Electrical Engineers 1888, and to best of my knowledge, HE invented them on his own, together with Alternating Current, which would be impossible without his AC generators.... See: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_motor —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.1.115.186 (talk) 00:30, 19 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Anecdote[edit]

I think this anecdote should be removed. It is attributable to so many different people and does not do as good a job as is possible in showing some of Steinmetz' character.--patrickc284 16:32, 13 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Here is the anecdote in case anyone ever authenticates it (I remember reading it and really liking the human quality, but it does need to be checked):

The following was published in the Letters section of Life magazine (May 14, 1965): Sirs: In your article on Steinmetz (April 23) you mentioned a consultation with Henry Ford. My father, Burt Scott, who was an employee of Henry Ford for many years, related to me the story behind that meeting. Technical troubles developed with a huge new generator at Ford's River Rouge plant. His electrical engineers were unable to locate the difficulty so Ford solicited the aid of Steinmetz. When "the little giant" arrived at the plant, he rejected all assistance, asking only for a notebook, pencil and cot. For two straight days and nights he listened to the generator and made countless computations. Then he asked for a ladder, a measuring tape and a piece of chalk. He laboriously ascended the ladder, made careful measurements, and put a chalk mark on the side of the generator. He descended and told his skeptical audience to remove a plate from the side of the generator and take out 16 windings from the field coil at that location. The corrections were made and the generator then functioned perfectly. Subsequently Ford received a bill for $10,000 signed by Steinmetz for General Electric. Ford returned the bill acknowledging the good job done by Steinmetz but respectfully requesting an itemized statement. Steinmetz replied as follows: Making chalk mark on generator $1. Knowing where to make mark $9,999. Total due $10,000.

Iluvcapra (talk) 23:14, 5 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Here is another anecdote. My father (1900-1995) was an English electrical engineer who worked for New York Power and Light in Albany and Schenectady from 1926-1933. Of course he heard Steinmetz stories, including the above generator story, and of course they may not be true. But anyway, here's another: Steinmetz was fond of cigars and he used to walk around the workshops at GE talking to people and smoking a cigar. Then the Management decided to introduce a "No Smoking" rule. Steinmetz just carried on as usual, so an official came up to him and said, "Mr Steinmetz, we have a new rule. Would you mind putting out that cigar?" The great man replied, "No cigars, no Steinmetz!"

The Management found a way to keep the man, cigars and all. I suspect no one else tried to challenge this rule. Budhen (talk) 18:18, 8 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Markbarnes (talk) 16:19, 1 September 2013 (UTC) This anecdote is repeated in the Smithsonian Magazine and the original letter to Life Magazine has been scanned by Google. That's pretty verifiable, as anecdotes go.[reply]

Steinmetz electrical engineering library[edit]

I am sitting here with the 3. edition of "Theory and calculation of transient electric phenomena and oscillations" on the binding it says "Steinmetz electrical engineering library, volume 8". I like to know what the others volumes are. The only thing I could find on the web where Steinmetz Electrical Engineering Library, orig. publ. 1915 - 1920 in 9 volumes by McGraw Hill—Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.225.29.254 (talk • contribs) 16:08, 9 August 2006

America and the New Epoch[edit]

It turns out that Steinmetz was a visionary on the corporation and the state. His book in 1916 on the new epoch of co-operation puts forward Steinmetz' vision of ideal government following corporate principles. This book is reviewed in the context of Steinmetz' youth, immigration, situation in electrical engineering, and General Electric in the 1998 work by Ronald Kline listed in the references for this article. My effort to include the salient information in this Steinmetz article was taken down. Looking for editors to get involved and add the information to the Steinmetz article, or go the whole route and develop a book article, considering new notablility.Rgdboer (talk) 22:19, 31 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Steinmetz joined the Technical Alliance after the period you are mentioning and most likely changed many of his views when he met Thorstein Veblen and other notables connected to that. The information you were wanting to add was very interesting, but do you have ref/notes or citations for it,? that could be added along with the new information your proposing? Is the book you are mentioning online or is there access to the information in it in a reliable 2nd. or third party source elsewhere, say an essay about it or other published review of the book that documents some of the things you are mentioning? skip sievert (talk) 22:41, 31 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps you are right, too much attention to the 1916 text could detract from the larger persistent investigation Steinmetz made in political economy. Thank you for the references, some placed on my user-talk, and your effort to maintain WP reference standards.Rgdboer (talk) 21:45, 1 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Socialist activity[edit]

Added this information to that area

Cornell University Professor Ronald R. Kline, the author of Steinmetz: Engineer and Socialist, contends that other factors were more directly involved in Steinmetz's decision to leave his homeland, such as the fact that he was in arrears with his tuition at the University of Breslau and that life at home with his father, stepmother, and their daughters was full of tension.

Despite his earlier efforts and interest in socialism, by 1922 Steinmetz concluded that socialism would never work in America because the country lacked a "powerful, centralized government of competent men, remaining continuously in office" and because "only a small percentage of Americans accept this viewpoint today." http://www.union.edu/N/DS/s.php?s=1512 Retrieved May-31-2009 - skip sievert (talk) 23:55, 31 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Interesting, but we may never know for sure. To put it into perspective, Das Kapital was published in 1867 (Vol. 1), 1885 (Vol. 2) and 1894 (Vol. 3). The Communist Manifesto was first published in in Europe in 1848, so Steinmetz would probably have been aware of it. However, the first real-world horror produced by Marx' and Engels' foul theories didn't start until the Bolshevik Revolution in Russia in 1918, just a few years before Steinmetz' death, and he may never even have been aware of the true consequences of socialism. To him, it may have been a Utopian dream, something that was just beyond the grasp of one who was remarkably gifted in mathematical analysis, but perhaps sorely lacking in understanding of the dark side of human nature. Furthermore, referring to Rgdboer's comment under "America and the New Epoch", above, by the time Steinmetz had spent a few years in America, observing how the products of industrial corporations and capitalism were rapidly improving living conditions for people, he may have been gradually letting go of his youthful notions of the benefits of socialism. —Quicksilver^{T @} 21:55, 20 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Evidently Steinmetz stood for the office of State Engineer in the New York state election, 1922 under the Socialist/Farmer-Labor banner. Such participation in democracy merits mention. The example of Vladimir Karapetoff would give some context.Rgdboer (talk) 21:32, 17 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The fact that he ran for office with the Socialist Party in 1922 (a fact I first saw in the Wikipedia article on Norman Thomas but haven't confirmed elsewhere) also undermines the above-cited claim that he had abandoned Socialism by 1922. Presumably that election, like all regular New York general elections, was held in November 1922, meaning he still hadn't renounced Socialism less than a year before his death. 24.47.83.14 (talk) 15:27, 31 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Name?[edit]

I can see "Carl" being Americanized to "Charles", but how did he get the middle name "Proteus". That would be an interesting addition to the article.—Quicksilver^{T @} 21:51, 20 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

After immigrating to the United Stated in 1888, Carl August Rudolph Steinmetz Americanized his name to Charles Proteus Steinmetz. "He chose Proteus as his middle name—the nickname his professors in Germany had affectionately bestowed upon him in recognition of the shape-shifting sea god. In Greek mythology, Proteus was a cave-dwelling prophetic old man who always returned to his human form—that of a hunchback. Steinmetz thoroughly enjoyed the comparison." ^[1] 24.189.7.103 (talk) 04:51, 23 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

^ http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/history/2011/08/charles-proteus-steinmetz-the-wizard-of-schenectady/#ixzz2lRMjrfit. {{cite web}}: Missing or empty |title= (help)

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Images[edit]

Well User:Cblambert, one image is about four times the quality scan of the other, and isn't oddly cropped so as to abruptly cut off the content at the top of the image. It helps that he's actually looking at the camera. But... I assumed most of that would be fairly obvious. TimothyJosephWood 14:15, 4 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Existing image looks better on all counts.Cblambert (talk) 12:11, 9 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Ethnicity?[edit]

I've changed the tag and sentence stating he was Jewish by ethnicity but baptized Lutheran. The authors of the two sources listed do not state he has Jewish ancestry. However, the second notes he is listed in Jewish Encyclopedias which I personally do not consider to be a reliable or authoritative source. Unless anyone has any objections I think it should only be stated that certain publications have suggested he was Jewish but it can't be verified. — Preceding unsigned comment added by HBBorges (talk • contribs) 21:54, 28 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I've removed the whole mention. You're right, because he's mentioned in Jewish Encyclopedias doesn't really matter, concerning this article. It's Undue weight and not reliably sourced. Dave Dial (talk) 20:13, 9 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Steinmetz has jewish ancestry

https://www.google.co.in/books/edition/B_nai_B_rith_National_Jewish_Monthly/gyJjeWl-EXMC?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=charles%20Steinmetz

--Katya72918 (talk) 11:23, 1 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I've removed this once again. Passing mention in 1933 B'nai B'rith magazine shouldn't outweigh Steinmetz' own account published in Credo which appears to contradict it. Generalrelative (talk) 14:02, 6 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Rowboat[edit]

Hi. My father, who was an electrical engineer, used to tell me a story that GE paid Steinmetz just to row around a lake in a rowboat and think, without any particular engineering goal. Can anyone verify this?

Eric— Preceding unsigned comment added by Otaku2 (talk • contribs) 14:55, 20 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

[1] ttp://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/history/2011/08/charles-proteus-steinmetz-the-wizard-of-schenectady/#ixzz2lRMjrfit. {{cite web}}: Missing or empty |title= (help)

[1]