Talk:A Fistful of Dollars
|WikiProject Film||(Rated C-class)|
|WikiProject Westerns||(Rated B-class)|
|This article is/was the subject of an educational assignment in Spring 2015. Further details are available on the course page.|
- 1 Cigars
- 2 References
- 3 Groundhog Day
- 4 Picture
- 5 Filming Locations?
- 6 Empty Titles
- 7 Johnny Wels vs. John Wells
- 8 Opening scene
- 9 Transformers animated
- 10 "Distension"?
- 11 Popular Culture
- 12 the correct title of the film
- 13 The Gold
- 14 Footnote reference number 3 & Country section
- 15 References
- 16 Critical Response
- 17 Structure
- 18 Citation & Referencing
- 19 Side Bar Information
- 20 Time Codes for referenced dialogue
- 21 Soundtrack
- 22 Yojimbo legal dispute
- 23 External links modified
"the trademark cigars from a Beverly Hills store"
There are conflicting sources on that. Leone stated that the cigar was his idea (Chrystofer Fryling, Something to Do with Death), however, since the cigar the Man With No Name smoke in the three film was an Italian "mezzo toscano" (half a toscano, since the toscano cigar is normally cut in half first to smoke it) it seems highly unlikely that it could have been randomly chosen by a non-smoker American actor, and came from a Beverly Hills store. There is even an anecdote about Eastwood telling Leone he would have accepted the part in the subsequent film (For a few dollars more) as long as he did not have to smoke that cigar again, and Leone replying "We can not leave out the main character".
These two are getting a bit desperate as a reference for this film arent they? so other films have gunfights in them...
Back to the Future trilogy: In Back to the Future Part II, a short scene is seen where Joe survives a gunfight which forshadows the scene in Back to the Future Part III where Marty does the same thing (in the same costume).
- Should this refer to him as Joe? yEvb0 16:51, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
- No. --18.104.22.168 05:57, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
Star Trek: The Next Generation: In the episode 'A Fistful of Datas', Worf and Troi are trapped in a holodeck western until they play it out to the end of the story. Meanwhile, each of the characters is being replaced by a likeness of Data.
- I'm not familiar with the Star Trek reference, but the Back To The Future scene is definitely a Dollars reference - Marty protects himself with a metal plate during a gunfight, just like the man with no name did at the end of Dollars. Rhobite 15:17, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
- During the gunfight near the end of that TNG episode, Worf uses a makeshift forcefield to protect himself from the bullets of a villainous, holographic version of Data. 22.214.171.124 19:32, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
Surprised no one has listed the scene in Groundhog Day when Bill Murray shows up for a movie screening wearing the outfit. Only thing, I can't remember if he is actually seeing the film. I know he says "I told you - I love this movie" or some such, but I can't recall if you can see the marque. RoyBatty42 10:21, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
The picture showing Gian Maria Volontè is not from "Fistful of Dollars" but from "For a Few Dollars More". In that movie he plays a character called "Indio". Shouldn't it be changed? Another picture or something like that? 126.96.36.199 18:54, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
It would be nice to include where this was filmed. Was it filmed in Spain or Italy?
All three Dollar-films were shot in Spain. I also included some information in the article.
Why does somebody always include empty titles like "Pacing", "Characters" and "Music" without writing anything about these subjects? Of course these are important issues, but you'll also have to include some information, not just the titles. 188.8.131.52 12:02, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
Johnny Wels vs. John Wells
I know that IMDb says that Gian Maria Volontè is credited as "John Wells" in A Fistful of Dollars. However, this is not exactly true. My source are the opening credits of the movie itself. I think everybody agrees that this is the best source. In the External Links-section there is a link for the opening credits and the title theme of the movie on YouTube. There you can see for yourself that Volontè is actually credited as "Johnny Wels", not "John Wells".Dutzi (talk) 12:30, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
Has any ever seen the first ten minutes of this movie? The first scenes of the movie have been deleted somewhere over the years and when the movie is shown on televison and in the VHS and DVD versions there is never a hint that there was an opening scene that is not shown. Its been so long, I don't think anyone even remembers the original opening scene. This file did not originally open with the scene "at the well" where Chico kicks Marisol's son and the Eastwood character watches somewhat indifferntly while getting a drink of water. The film opened in a prison where Eastwood's character is a prisoner with no apparent hope of ever being released. He is brought to the warden and given a chance to receive a full pardon - all he has to do is accomplish an impossible task - go to San Miguel and clean up the town. Most of the shots are close up of the eyes of the speaking characters. Cut to the scene at the well and the opening credits. Of all the comments about this film I have read, this has never been mentioned. Submitted by L Ofstedahl, email@example.com.
- The original Leone film does not contain this scene. The scene described was made for its first showing on US TV. It was a weak attempt by the network to alter the amoral nature of the film. The scene is included as an extra on the recently released special edition DVD. It features Harry Dean Stanton as the warden and a body-double for Clint Eastwood who looks nothing like him and whose poncho hangs clear to the floor. MarnetteD | Talk 04:35, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
- For MarnetteD - this is the only way I could figure out to respond to your answer to my recent question regarding the opening scene. Thank you and I appreciate what you said. I do not doubt that you are correct, but I first saw this movie in 16mm in 1968 - it I find it a little hard to believe that the 16mm movie I saw was an "edited for television" version. (I did not see it at a theater, however - this was at a milatary base) Again, thanks for responding. L Ofstedahl Ofstedahl@hughes.net —Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.108.40.206 (talk • contribs) 17:14, 31 December 2007
- You are welcome. I'm afraid that I can see where the prologue described would be used by the military for the same reasons that the network did. I hope that you get to see the special edition DVD where things are explained in more detail then what I typed above. They also have a feature where some filmmakers went back to Spain and took pictures of the locations where the film was made to show what they look like today that is excellent. MarnetteD | Talk 20:44, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
"This was influenced by both John Ford's cinematic landscaping and the Japanese method of distension, perfected by Akira Kurosawa."
What on earth is meant by this? I cannot fathom it. Google has failed to produce any usages of the term in relation to film... or really to anything other than the abdomen. forkbomb! (talk) 09:04, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
Long lists of largely trivial references in pop culture are not encouraged on Wiki. This one was huge and really trivial. It is enough to state that the film is heavily referenced - we do not and should not attempt an exhaustive list of examples.
I have trimmed the section considerably.
People may feel that one or too really notable examples (to illustrate the sort of refs that are often made) might be useful - I've left the Last Man Standing and Stephen King examples in full - if sthere are really important other,feel free to add them.
I believe the list as it existed was swamping the article and distorting the focus of the text. Who really cares if one more relatively obscure TV show or rap song makes a monetion of the film or its score?
The film is one of the most quoted and influential of all time - this article is about the film - not about a million and one computer games, TV episodes and sraight to video movies that make reference to it.
That's just my opinion, of course - but it would appear to be in line with Wiki policy on Popular Culture references.
- Before I saw this section, I had noted that it was odd that For a Few Dollars More has two "References in Other Media" in the article, but that this movie, which is better known and more often cited has none. Like the Good, The Bad & The Ugly, The title, the movie itself and some of the key scenes have entered the cultural zeitgeist and it seems odd not to mention this at all. Perhaps instead of an exhaustive list or an incomplete list, we could have a more text based section that says something along the lines of:
- A Fistful of Dollars is an iconic movie and that is frequently referenced in popular culture. Frequently the movie's title is mentioned or its poster is seen in other movies, TV shows and documentaries/videos. The title has also appeared on the marquee of theaters depicted in a couple of movies.
- Several TV episodes are variations of the title, such as the Brady Bunch: A Fistful of Reasons, The Comic Strip Presents...: A Fistful of Travellers' Cheques, The Fall Guy: A Fistful of Lire (A Fistful of Dollars is the US title), 'Allo 'Allo: A Fistful of Francs, Star Trek: The Next Generation: A Fistful of Datas, Xena: Warrior Princess: A Fistful of Dinars, NYPD Blue: A Tushful of Dollars, Futurama: A Fishful of Dollars, King of the Hill: A Bill Full of Dollars, Community: A Fistful of Paintballs, and Family Guy: A Fistful of Meg. There's also the video game Evil Dead: A Fistful of Boomstick and a segment of The Kentucky Fried Movie called "A Fistful of Yen."
- In addition, various elements of the movie have been copied, including the music and The Man with No Name's costume. In Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome, Max's character is referred to as The Man with No Name, and in the video game, Red Dead Redemption, there's a grave marked "A Cowboy With No Name." The improvised armor under the poncho is another element that is frequently referenced. In fact, in Back to the Future III, the main character, Marty, who had previously watched A Fistful of Dollars, successfully uses the exact same ruse. Finally, although the twirling gun is a classic western move, Eastwood's character adds to its popularity by doing it every time he holsters his pistol. In an added twist, Clint Eastwood's character does the same thing at the end of the Dirty Harry movie, The Dead Pool.
the correct title of the film
This is such a famous movie, we can at least get the title correct. My VHS tape (probably taped off of TCM) has Fistful of Dollars as the on-screen title. Leonard Maltin's Video Movie Guide uses the same title; virtually everyone else includes the extraneous "A." Are there English-language prints that include the "A" on-screen? The pictured poster has the "A," but that's a poster, not the movie. ProfessorAndro (talk) 15:25, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
- According to Imdb, it is "A Fistful of Dollars"
- The original Italian title of the film is: "Per un pugno di dollari" 'A Fistful of Dollars'. The film was released in Italy primarily in 1964, so this can be taken as it's original title - the 'A' is correct. I've also seen it as "For a Fistful of Dollars", but that may be more incorrect than both. MrMenethil (talk) 13:23, 13 February 2015 (UTC)
There's no indication in the article about what happens to the gold. It says Eastwood's character (The Man With No Name AKA TMwNN) is searching for the gold when he is interrupted by Marisol. That's the last time the gold is mentioned in the article. Are you purposefully leaving out that plot element? I haven't seen it in a long time. Ileanadu (talk) 20:40, 24 November 2014 (UTC)
Footnote reference number 3 & Country section
I. In the "Country" section of the box, next to the word "Spain" appears a reference; that is currently footnote 3. Footnote 3 says:
- "PER UN PUGNO DI DOLLARI (1964)". BFI Film & TV Database. London: British Film Institute. Retrieved February 19, 2013.
This is really the original title, and is in Italian. The title in the Spanish speaking countries is:
- Por un puñado de dólares
II. What is the basis for including these particular 3 countries (Italy, West Germany & Spain) in the Country section?
The film has been release in more than two dozen countries. If it's supposed to be the countries where the film was released, why pick these 3 out of all of those countries. The first 3 countries where the film was released are listed as Italy, West Germany, and Argentina. The film was not released in Spain for another three months. So if you want just the first three, probably Argentina should replace Spain.
On the other hand, is Spain included because that was a filming location, along with Italy? If so, why is West Germany included in the list of countries? There appears to be no evidence of a filming connection with West Germany.
- Spain, Italy and West Germany are chosen to represent the release because they were the initial countries that funded the production. By 1964, "...Leone had convinced Jolly Film (Italy), Constantin Film (West Germany) and Ocean Film (Spain)..." to fund the film for a total of $200,000. Also, as another example of this production heirarchy, within the credits German actors 'Wolfgang Lukschy', 'Sieghardt Rupp' and 'Josef Egger' are all higher in the credits, despite the fact that their roles may not be as essential as that of the Spaniard 'Pepe Calvo' who plays the Innkeeper, Silvanito, because of the West German funders demands. MrMenethil (talk) 13:39, 13 February 2015 (UTC)
[IGNORE THIS SECTION - I JUST SAW THE EARLIER SECTION AND HAVE INCORPORATED THIS THERE] Couldn't figure out a way to just delete the section.
The Article for "For a Few Dollars More" has a "References" section, that lists just one or two references. Whereas, A Fistful of Dollars has a plethora of cultural references. See these for example http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0058461/movieconnections#referenced_in
1. The two 'Critical responses' chosen to represent the films immediate reviews are both negative - the difference being that Crowther treats it as a joke, French as an insult - despite statements that show Crowther's to be otherwise. Unfortunately they aren't representative of a large response to the film, but a minor negative response. Perhaps it'd be good to include retrospective articles summarising 'A Fistful...', or to include a more wholesome critical response to the film that represents its importance towards the Western itself?
- 2. Alongside this, although not particularly academic, a brief way of summarising its potential contemporary importance would be to include statistics from Rotten Tomatoes (98% Fresh from 'critics')/IMDb/Metacritic.
I think the response detailed for this film is perhaps unfortunately a bit shallow; I'm going to attempt to re-approach it with scholarly responses, (see Christopher Wagstaff/Thomas Elsaesser/Howard Hughes) alongside more contemporary meta-analysis bases: like Rotten Tomatoes (98% out of 43 critical reviews), like MetaCritic, like iMDB (8.1 over all out of 112,477 votes) so we can really get a quick and accessible feeling of its wider reception. Bosley Crowther & French's articles are both brilliant examples of immediate responses to the films text, but unfortunately they are both negative and provide no contemporary retrospective to the analysis. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MrMenethil (talk • contribs) 23:32, 11 February 2015 (UTC) MrMenethil (talk) 11:05, 13 February 2015 (UTC)
Hi everyone! I think this page has a lot of good information, but most of it is organised in two huge, hard-to-approach blocks of text (the plot section and the production section). I'm planning to break down the production section with subheadings to make it an easier read, and am also considering to condense the plot summary. I feel that someone going to this page for information of the film would probably prefer a quicker overview of the film's plot, that isn't so detailed and full of quotes. Quotes are great, but this plot summary probably isn't the best place for so many of them.
These two things seem most important to lok int right away when it comes to this page's structure, and I think these changes can do a lot to make the article more approachable. I might look into the way the introduction is laid out and how it leads into the rest of the article. --Semings (talk) 22:27, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
- I just updated the structure of the page! I split the production segment up into development, visual style, soundtrack and legal dispute. Please do let me know if you disagree with this structuring. --Semings (talk) 13:44, 13 February 2015 (UTC)
Citation & Referencing
Hi! I've just been going over the page and I'm thinking of fact checking some things that are a little ambiguous. For example, while much of the referencing looks quite good, there are some sources cited that don't specify much more than the name of the author, specifically those citing 'Hughes' and 'Munn'. I'm thinking that someone wanting to check the validity of these sources might have a hard time, especially with no other information or links to actual texts to verify them. I'm thinking of trying to find these sources and make the references more complete, while also fact checking the page against the cited texts if I manage to find them. Drojasbrackett (talk) 23:57, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
- Hey there, the citation of Hughes is from 'Howard Hughes Book: 'Aim for the Heart: Films of Clint Eastwood' - In the Chapter: 'The Westerns' - 3rd page. Hope this helps you out! I'm not sure where the Munn citation is from unfortunately..
Here's the link: http://books.google.co.uk/books?hl=en&lr=&id=_LLzAgAAQBAJ&oi=fnd&pg=PT17&dq=howard+hughes+aim+for+the+heart&ots=S-o_bNOy31&sig=O6UAT1jfaSrd0YA4gCioK3hzsIg#v=onepage&q=howard%20hughes%20aim%20for%20the%20heart&f=false — Preceding unsigned comment added by MrMenethil (talk • contribs) 23:43, 12 February 2015 (UTC) MrMenethil (talk) 11:10, 13 February 2015 (UTC)
- Hi, just realised that the books are actually listed under bibliography so my mistake there. However I do think that it might be worth altering the headings to coincide with the guidelines https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citing_sources#Avoiding_clutter . I think that this would make the page more uniform with the referencing style of other Wikipedia articles, Fight Club https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fight_Club for example . This will hopefully go some way towards organising those sections as they seem a little jumbled in places. Drojasbrackett (talk) 21:04, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
Side Bar Information
I have been inspecting this side bar for a couple reasons:
A - The countries listed do seem a little controversial whether it is country of release (in numerological order) or country of production which if you look onto a few other Wikipedia from other languages it does seem to be of production, not release. It seems this has been discussed also. I suggest it should not oppose the same articles that are in other languages but mirror it instead; Country of Production (Paese di produzione) Granted this is only a minute similarity as some don't have the countries listed at all.
B - Acknowledging Ryuzo kikushima in relation to what A Fistful of Dollars is based on seems a little uninformative other than being 'uncredited'. He co-wrote the screenplay for Yojimbo and is usually acknowledged as a producer. Basically should this section include some sort of reference to his status in relation rather than having his name there without a hyper link to his page which also needs work. Otherwise he's just a name with nothing to justify it.
Time Codes for referenced dialogue
Can we (if available to editors) incorporate time codes for dialogue referenced? Some dialogue is to back up certain plot explanations, however if someone needed/ wanted to check this they would have to search through the film or search the sentence on a script page rather than knowing straight off from this page where to look. What do you all think? Might be helpful? Mrlmorley (talk) 12:48, 16 February 2015 (UTC)Mrlmorley
- Hello Mrlmorley. It's usually not a great idea to use time codes for referencing dialogue, since different versions of the film on different media will have minor variations in time codes. Trying to pin down dialogue by time code alone probably won't give you an accurate reference (unlike, say, a page number in a specific edition of a book). Citing the dialogue should be fine - though you might also want to think about other issues of film terminology where appropriate. Hope that helps! DrJennyCee (talk) 11:46, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
- Hey there: Here's a great source for Morrocone's tracks - the publisher that still holds his rights: http://www.gdmmusic.com/index.php?q=HsWivQGvlWQtJMAgm3ZeaA== — Preceding unsigned comment added by MrMenethil (talk • contribs) 11:57, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
- And, Howard Hughes also stated "...of all the film's accomplishments, the most innovative was the soundtrack and Ennio Morricone's groundbreaking composition is still popular today. In 1965 it won the Italiam Film Journalists' Silver Ribbon for 'Best Score'. This justifies your point that bit further!
I am going to change the format of the information within this section, as I have come across the BBC documentary "Viva Leone", which furthers the explanation to Tiomkin's theme. GiuliaBalsamo (talk) 13:02, 20 February 2015 (UTC)GiuliaBalsamo
Yojimbo legal dispute
I've noticed that the following website:
Has the same paragraph as this article. However, I cannot figure out who acquired this set of information first. The article or this website, unfortunately without knowing which was published first I feel it may not be something to change here as there are footnotes available for evidence.
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