Talk:Yaqub al-Mansur

Biography: Military / Royalty and Nobility

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
	This article is supported by the military biography work group (assessed as Low-importance).
	This article is supported by WikiProject Royalty and Nobility.

Berbers

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Berbers, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Berbers on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.BerbersWikipedia:WikiProject BerbersTemplate:WikiProject BerbersBerbers articles
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

Portugal Low‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Portugal, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Portugal on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PortugalWikipedia:WikiProject PortugalTemplate:WikiProject PortugalPortugal articles

Low

This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Portugal To-do:

Find correct name The airport is not listed as João Paulo II anywhere. The airport's own website calls itself simply Ponta Delgada, and has no mention of João Paulo.

Improve key articles to Good article

Improve

Review

Category:History of Portugal: lots to remove there
Template:Regions of Portugal: statistical (NUTS3) subregions and intercommunal entities are confused; they are not the same in all regions, and should be sublisted separately in each region: intermunicipal entities are sometimes larger and split by subregions (e.g. the Metropolitan Area of Lisbon has two subregions), some intercommunal entities are containing only parts of subregions. All subregions should be listed explicitly and not assume they are only intermunicipal entities (which accessorily are not statistic subdivisions but real administrative entities, so they should be listed below, probably using a smaller font: we can safely eliminate the subgrouping by type of intermunicipal entity from this box).

Requests

See Requested articles

Assess

Help assessing articles.

Need images

Translate from Portuguese Wikipedia

Wikify

Vote:

Watch this list — Edit this list

Spain Low‑importance

	Spain portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Spain, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Spain on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SpainWikipedia:WikiProject SpainTemplate:WikiProject SpainSpain articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Morocco

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Morocco, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Morocco on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.MoroccoWikipedia:WikiProject MoroccoTemplate:WikiProject MoroccoMorocco articles

???

This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

Help expand the project:

You can help! يمكنكم أن تساهموا

Here are some tasks awaiting attention:

Article requests : Mounir Charïbi
Assess : Rate the Unassessed Morocco articles and Unknown-importance Morocco-related articles.
Cleanup : Cleanup listing for this project is available. See also the list by category
Geographical coordinates : Add geographic coordinates to articles in Category:Morocco articles missing geocoordinate data
Photo : See requested photographs in Morocco
Stubs : Morocco stubs
Other :
- Translate from Arabic: Sellam Ameziane, Mrebih Rebbu

Military history: Biography / African / European / Spanish / Medieval

This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history articles

This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
Referencing and citation: criterion not met Coverage and accuracy: criterion not met Structure: criterion not met Grammar and style: criterion met Supporting materials: criterion met

Associated task forces:
/
	Military biography task force
	African military history task force
	European military history task force
	Spanish military history task force
	Medieval warfare task force (c. 500 – c. 1500)

Requested move 1 November 2022

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Moved as proposed. However, I am not seeing express support for the alternative, Ya'qub al-Mansur. BD2412 T 15:21, 14 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Abu Yusuf Yaqub al-Mansur → Yaqub al-Mansur – WP:common name ... إيان (talk) 07:48, 1 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support. It is indeed very common, and a little more concise. "Ya'qub al-Mansur" is also very common, if the apostrophe is acceptable for a title. R Prazeres (talk) 09:03, 1 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I would also support a move to Ya'qub al-Mansur. إيان (talk) 21:34, 1 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support per nom.--Ortizesp (talk) 15:39, 1 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support per nom. M.Bitton (talk) 15:47, 1 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Almohad caliphs are frequently primarily (in some cases always) referred by their "Abu X" prename (esp. in the chronicles). It is the Almohad norm, and should be retained for consistency. Also helps clarify potential confusions. Abu Yusuf Yaqub is clearly a different person from Abu Yaqub Yusuf. But is Abu Yaqub Yusuf different from Yaqub? Walrasiad (talk) 16:31, 1 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
It's not WP:common name. There are several streets and boulevards, for example, with the name Yaqub al-Mansur but you wouldn't find one with the name "Abu Yusuf Yaqub." إيان (talk) 21:32, 1 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Our standard isn't street signs, but works of general reference. Encyclopedia Britannica uses "Abu Yusuf Yaqub al-Mansur". Britannica. So does Encyclopedia.com, Grove encyclopedia of art, African Kingdoms Encyclopedia, Africana encyclopedia, Encyclopedia of African history, Oxford Encyclpedia of Medieval Warfare, Greenwood Encyclopedia of World Popular Culture, etc. and many other books besides (e.g. [1], [2], [3], [4], [5], etc.). And that didn't take much effort - even searching narrowly for "Yaqub al-Mansur", I am likelier to end up with more references which use the fuller "Abu Yusuf Yaqub al-Mansur" than the shortened form.

Granted, some works do use merely "Yaqub al-Mansur", but a sufficient number (apparently most) use "Abu Yusuf Yaqub al-Mansur" to merit retention of the fuller name here. The shortened name "Yaqub al-Mansur" is contained in the latter, so it should not be a surprise to those looking for the shorter version. But those looking up longer version "Abu Yusuf Yaqub" from works of reference or other casual works will likely be confused (particularly when there are similar names like "Abu Yaqub Yusuf" to misdirect them elsewhere). I don't really see the gain from shortening. Walrasiad (talk) 17:05, 2 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Those references sources are using the formal name. Take a look at Wikipedia:COMMONNAME. To illustrate the concept of commonly used names for the sake of recognizability, it offers the examples:

Mahatma Gandhi (not: Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi)
Mansa Musa (not: Musa I)
Bill Clinton (not: William Jefferson Clinton)
J. K. Rowling (not: Joanne Rowling)
Bono (not: Paul Hewson)

The move suggested is clearly in line with the spirit of these examples. إيان (talk) 10:18, 3 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I understand the spirit, but I don't find it in the evidence. "Abu Yusuf Yaqub al-Mansur" is not the official name, it is the common name. Indeed, it is those sources that define what the common name is, as pointed out in WP:COMMONNAME:

"the name most typically used in reliable sources is generally preferred. Other encyclopedias are among the sources that may be helpful in deciding what titles are in an encyclopedic register, as well as what names are most frequently used."

"In determining which of several alternative names is most frequently used, it is useful to observe the usage of major international organizations, major English-language media outlets, quality encyclopedias, geographic name servers, major scientific bodies, and notable scientific journals."

I specifically used other encyclopedias and general works to find how he was referred to. It is the name they use. Indeed, I went out of my way to search for "Yaqub al-Mansur", and I still end up with "Abu Yusuf Yaqub al-Mansur" in the majority of results. In my conclusion, that's the common name. Walrasiad (talk) 11:23, 3 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support per nom. I'm not persuaded that extra titles are needed on the front of this person's name. — Amakuru (talk) 11:07, 12 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support per nom. -NorthAfricanArmsDealer (talk) 12:28, 13 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Birth info

105.66.129.28, I'll repeat again, please do not add information to the infobox or to the article without citing reliable sources, as required by Wikipedia:Verifiability. The birth place is not known unless there are reliable sources that say so. Please do not edit-war by repeating your edits after they are already reverted; this is not how edits are accepted on Wikipedia, see WP:CONSENSUS.

Aside from this recent edit-warring, the 1160 birth date also appears to be unsourced and should be removed. R Prazeres (talk) 03:58, 5 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]