Talk:Alex Ferguson

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search

Two glaring errors[edit]

The passage "On his arrival at Old Trafford, he told the media My greatest challenge is not what's happening at the moment, my greatest challenge was knocking Liverpool right off their f*****g perch. And you can print that, in reference to his desire for United to overhaul Liverpool, who were the dominant club in the English league at the time" is patently untrue. That famous quote was made in a 2002 Guardian interview in repsonse to Alan Hansen's suggestion that winning back the Premier League title in 02/03 would be Ferguson's greatest challenge. The statement would not have made any sense in November 1986, when Ferguson had only just arrived at United and Liverpool were still very much on their perch!

The second point of contention is the heading "Second European trophy" in reference to the Champions League win of 2008. Strictly speaking, this was Ferguson's fifth "European trophy" with United and the seventh "European trophy" of his career. "Second European Cup" would be a more suitable heading.

One of the greatest?[edit]

The intro gives a line about sir Alex being one of the greatest of all time, but three of the four sources used to give that claim describe him as THE greatest. It appears the principle source is one from a 2009 book but since then, SAF has won a lot more trophies and retired which prompted debate about his status in football history, to which many have said he's the grestest ever. The three far more recent sources should take precedence over the 2009 one and the statement should be reverted to "he is regarded by many players, coaches and football analysts as the greatest manager of all time", since one of the sources is from a player, another from a manager and another from 20 ESPN analysts.Davefelmer (talk) 19:28, 20 December 2015 (UTC)

Let's not let hyperbole corrupt the article please. Soxwon (talk) 01:11, 26 December 2015 (UTC)

It isnt hyperbole at all. It is the view of multiple sources that is represented accurately. Davefelmer (talk) 03:49, 26 December 2015 (UTC)

That may be the case, but the sources you posted are rubbish. The Daily Star is a downmarket tabloid and is not a reliable source. The Guardian is a reliable source, but the link you posted was to a story about how Ferguson was banned from the touchline for a little while. Neither source adds anything to what was already there. Jmorrison230582 (talk) 07:47, 26 December 2015 (UTC)

This is a direct quote from the Guardian source: "The most decorated manager in the history of the sport will suffer the indignity of being the first to be barred from the dug-out area for a match at Wembley." Last sentence, third paragraph. Thus, it can certainly be referenced. The part about him being the greatest should certainly stand as that is backed by 3 of the 4 sources (not one of the greatest). Thus, it should either be changed to say that many pundits, managers and players view him as the greatest and most successful, or it should be seperate sentences to state that many view him as the greatest and media such as the Guardian refer to him as most successful. I suggest the former because it would only require to change a few words from the established prose. Davefelmer (talk) 22:16, 26 December 2015 (UTC)

why did you revert the most recent change to the article? The edits were not 'good faith' as you described but if you look at the additional source added, it showed a reliable source publishing trophy counts for all the most decorated managers and AF being top. I did not change the part about being considered the greatest but the additional source cleary shows he is most decorated. Don't delete the source and then say it was in good faith when had you kept the source, it would be factual. Davefelmer (talk) 00:03, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

The Daily Mail is not a reliable source. Jmorrison230582 (talk) 00:15, 19 January 2016 (UTC)
Having read the source, it doesn't even claim what you're saying it does. It merely compares the trophy count of the several managers it considers. It doesn't consider pre-war managers like Struth and Maley who may have won more trophies (depending on which ones you count). Jmorrison230582 (talk) 00:20, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

How is the Daily Mail not a reliable source? Not to mention that is used a lot across wiki as a source for many, many articles. And you seem to be fixiated over that one article from Scotland that called Struth the most successful British manager. No other article ever mentions it and none ever call Maley that. You can't compare regional and wartime awards to actual honours. Are you saying any Manchester Senior Cup or Lancashire Cup etc SAF won in charge of United should be added too? Because then he'd still have more. The paper compares managers who have won the most trophies without counting regional, unofficial or friendly matches. That is a perfectly fair ground to judge on. Davefelmer (talk) 01:02, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

The Daily Mail is a tabloid newspaper; it is not a reliable source. If it is used elsewhere, then that is poor sourcing. I'm not "fixated over that one article", I'm challenging the fact that you are overstating what the sources actually say. You definitively say that Ferguson is "the most successful manager", but the sources do not explicitly prove this (or in that case, directly contradict it). Jmorrison230582 (talk) 07:29, 19 January 2016 (UTC)


"You definitively say that Ferguson is "the most successful manager", but the sources do not explicitly prove this"
As far as the current issue goes, the sources are not required to "prove" it, merely state it as it is the claim that the mooted change addresses.Tarquin Q. Zanzibar (talk) 17:13, 22 May 2016 (UTC)
This type of language is discouraged by WP:PEACOCK regardless of what the sources say. It is too vague and subjective. It is best to stick to factual statements about the trophies he won during his time as manager.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 17:46, 22 May 2016 (UTC)
Yeah, you know that WP:PEACOCK is not actually relevant here, as it deals with the language used by a contributor, not the reporting of status accorded by e.g. peers "if they accurately represent the opinions of the source".Tarquin Q. Zanzibar (talk) 18:18, 22 May 2016 (UTC)
It's possible to cherry pick sources that say practically anything if you look hard enough. To introduce this type of material, it would be best to make clear who said it, eg "Sports magazine X rated Sir Alex Ferguson as the greatest manager of all time." Sir Alex is clearly up there with the best of them, but things like the list of the Top 100 Movies of All Time are always subjective.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 18:51, 22 May 2016 (UTC)

well, speaking of what the sources actually say, they all seem to say he IS the greatest of all time, so if we are trying to accurately portray what the sources say, then why is the actual content differing from the sources provided there? Davefelmer (talk) 20:35, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

Bermuda[edit]

According to the article: "During the season, United played in friendly matches against the Bermudan national team and Somerset County Cricket Club as part of the Bermudan team's tour of England. In the match against Somerset, both Ferguson himself and his assistant, Archie Knox, took to the field, with Knox even getting on the scoresheet. The match remains Ferguson's only appearance for the Manchester United first team."

This is incorrect information. Manchester United played two matches in Bermuda (not a Bermudian tour of England), and one of those matches was against the club team Somerset CC aka Somerset Trojans which is NOT the same thing as the English county cricket club Somerset. [1]

The article is protected so perhaps someone might correct it.

86.184.177.9 (talk) 02:51, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

External links modified[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Alex Ferguson. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{Sourcecheck}}).

You may set the |checked=, on this template, to true or failed to let other editors know you reviewed the change. If you find any errors, please use the tools below to fix them or call an editor by setting |needhelp= to your help request.

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

If you are unable to use these tools, you may set |needhelp=<your help request> on this template to request help from an experienced user. Please include details about your problem, to help other editors.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 07:29, 8 October 2016 (UTC)

External links modified[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 4 external links on Alex Ferguson. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

You may set the |checked=, on this template, to true or failed to let other editors know you reviewed the change. If you find any errors, please use the tools below to fix them or call an editor by setting |needhelp= to your help request.

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

If you are unable to use these tools, you may set |needhelp=<your help request> on this template to request help from an experienced user. Please include details about your problem, to help other editors.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 18:17, 30 June 2017 (UTC)