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Declassified NSA memo implicating Hiss
- Several exhausting edit wars, some lasting a year of more, have been fought over the lede of this article. The compromise text was hammered out with great difficulty.
- I have reverted an anonymous uncited addition to the lede that was not discussed on talk. That revert stands until a consensus of the editors agrees that the new text should be included in the lede.
- I oppose including it in the lede. Even if true, it is no more particularly significant that any other data point regarding the possible innocence or guilt of Hiss.
- Furthermore, if we're going to declare open season on the lede -- anything that any editor feels like adding, without getting consensus -- OH BOY are you going see the editors making some big changes, and I'll be the first. I'll starting by quoting in the lede all the Soviet experts who've stated Hiss never worked for the USSR. And I'll be chucking all the text regarding opinion on what "most" historians do or not believe regarding Hiss. Thanks. Joegoodfriend (talk) 06:22, 10 October 2015 (UTC)
- A correct footnote would be: https://www.nsa.gov/public_info/_files/oral_history_interviews/1976_rowlett_hiss.pdf
- Suggest that the new text does not need its own subsection in the article. Joegoodfriend (talk) 02:27, 11 October 2015 (UTC)
- So c. 1944 Intelligence finds out Hiss was spying but do not record the message or tell anyone. In 1976 one of them tells the story but the tape recorder is turned off. Then in 1980 the story is recorded in a brief note but not acted upon. We need a reliable secondary source in order to determine the significance of the note. TFD (talk) 14:05, 11 October 2015 (UTC)
- One random voice saying, "I was once involved in a secret project and heard something about Alger Hiss," doesn't seem very encyclopediaic to me. Joegoodfriend (talk) 18:27, 11 October 2015 (UTC)
- @TFD Yes, that happens in intelligence all the time. (E.G. VENONA, Japanese Codes, ENIGMA) Intelligence that US could read Soviet diplomatic cables could be acted upon in only extremely rare cases, it would have been compartmentalized. Capitalismojo (talk) 18:39, 14 October 2015 (UTC)
- This was part of the VENONA Project, so one would have expected to see the cable when the papers were publicly released in 1995. Frank Rowlett repeated his comments in 1992, (See The Venona Secrets, p. 27 and footnote, p. 520 and Haynes & Klehr, p. 48 and footnote p. 400), although he neglected to mention Hiss. But I suggest we use secondary sources for this article and leave all interpretative judgments to the experts who write them. TFD (talk) 21:08, 14 October 2015 (UTC)
Summary of later evidence, for and against
Under this "Later Evidence" section are the following sub-sections:
Testimony by Bullitt and Weyl
Fake typewriter hypothesis
Venona and "ALES"
This Later Evidence section begins by jumping right in with no introduction; some of these sub-section are very long; eventually the entire article ends with no concluding / summary statement regarding this huge overview. A few preliminary sentences to introduce this section including a brief summation of each sub-section, and a summary overview at the end would improve its readability. GeeBee60 (talk) 04:23, 27 December 2015 (UTC)
"Lowenthal argued that had Alger Hiss really been a spy, the GRU would not have mentioned his real name" States the current article, in the Venona section.
This needs to be changed to "Lowenthal stated ..." because this is not an argument at all. If Soviet intelligence had been so 100% perfect they would have not duplicated the one time pads. Yet Soviet intelligence did make this basic mistake, which enabled Venona. We are then asked to believe that minor errors in security were never made. AnnaComnemna (talk) 15:34, 24 January 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Alger Hiss. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
- Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.cia.gov/csi/books/venona/part1.htm to https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for-the-study-of-intelligence/csi-publications/books-and-monographs/venona-soviet-espionage-and-the-american-response-1939-1957/part1.htm
- Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20070629055716/http://origin.www.gpo.gov/congress/commissions/secrecy/pdf/12hist1.pdf to http://origin.www.gpo.gov/congress/commissions/secrecy/pdf/12hist1.pdf
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