Talk:American Idol season 16

Requested move 6 January 2018

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved. Consensus reached appears to want this proposed title along with information in the lead and article that will resolve the misgivings of opposers. Happy Publishing! (closed by page mover)  Paine Ellsworth  ^put'r there  16:23, 22 January 2018 (UTC)

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American Idol (ABC TV series) → American Idol (season 16) – Even though the forthcoming season will be broadcast under a different network, it is still the same show under the parent article American Idol, and should be named using the same naming convention as previous season per WP:TVSEASON (i.e. name of the show, and then by the season number). ABC itself stresses the achievements of the previous seasons of the shows - [1], it is therefore just a continuation. There is the indication that ABC wants to see this season on its network as the first season of the show [2], but I'm not sure we should use this way of counting season as it is still the same show. Hzh (talk) 17:37, 6 January 2018 (UTC) --Relisted.  Paine Ellsworth  ^put'r there  01:02, 18 January 2018 (UTC)

Relist comment. Members of WikiProjects Idol series, Television/Reality TV task force and United States/American TV task force have been notified in an effort to garner consensus in this debate.  Paine Ellsworth  ^put'r there  01:24, 18 January 2018 (UTC)

• Support: Many other series have changed networks over the course of their run; it doesn't mean it's an entirely separate series. I think you only title an article with ([network] TV series) if two distinct series have the same name, but are entirely different. This is the same show, with the same format, with the same production company, just on a different network. It should be moved to American Idol (season 16). Heartfox (talk) 18:28, 6 January 2018 (UTC)
• Wait for now: I think it is premature to say the show will have the same format or not. Perhaps the ABC show will be very much different from the Fox show with new rules for the show and a new identity. Fox dropped the show because of decreasing audiences and the popularity of more pro-active series like The Voice. Perhaps ABC wants to revamp American Idol with a whole new formula to regain part of the departing audiences. Perhaps ABC will call it new season 1 and not season 16. We never know for now. werldwayd (talk) 18:52, 6 January 2018 (UTC)

ABC appears to have already stated that it wanted it to be a new season according to the Billboard article - ABC is calling the new season of American Idol season one instead of season 16, choosing not to maintain continuity with the series’ run on Fox. Of course we won't know if this is what they will actually do, but it will present us with some issues certainly. I'm not sure that format changes will be that relevant, as Idol has always tinkered with the format. It's more that ABC wants to number it differently that will cause problem. Hzh (talk) 19:09, 6 January 2018 (UTC)

• (edit conflict) Oppose. Per Heartfox's rationale, this article should be merged into American Idol. In the article's current state, I would agree with that over moving this article to American Idol (season 16); if there is a season 17, this article's title will become inaccurate since it current identifies the new series. Steel1943 (talk) 18:57, 6 January 2018 (UTC)
• Comment – It has to be moved as per WP:NCTV: we don't disambiguate by TV network anymore (that has been deprecated). So it either needs to be moved to American Idol (2018 TV series) or American Idol (season 16). I won't lie – I strongly prefer the former option over the proposed latter option... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 19:29, 6 January 2018 (UTC)

It is going to make naming individual season cumbersome doesn't it - American Idol (2018 TV series) season 1, etc.? Hzh (talk) 21:54, 6 January 2018 (UTC)

• We need to differentiate between a season page and the American Idol (ABC TV series) page I created. This said page is not the "season 16 / ABC season 1" page of American Idol but rather a global page for this new program highlighting everything that is different about this ABC American Idol than the Fox American Idol. Just forwarding it to season 16 is premature. If you don't deem my created page to have viability or credibility as a stand-alone page, it should be rather merged as a sub-section in American Idol, not a forwarding to American Idol (season 16) page Me I argue that it has a utility on its own. We can keep it for now as a pseudo "season page", but in effect it is not a season page at all. werldwayd (talk) 20:29, 6 January 2018 (UTC)
  • Assuming it merits a standalone article (and I think it does), it still should not be at American Idol (ABC TV series), but at American Idol (2018 TV series), as per WP:NCTV. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 22:02, 6 January 2018 (UTC)

We would probably need to determine first whether it should be a separate article from the parent American Idol article (i.e. American Idol (2018 TV series) if that is what is preferred), or just a continuation (therefore American Idol (season 16)). Changing now to American Idol (2018 TV series) would cause problems as it may require another discussion to change it again if it is decided that it is unsatisfactory when the show starts. Best to hash it out first. Hzh (talk) 12:28, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

• Support - All evidence suggests this is a continuation. We can revisit again if things change. -- Netoholic @ 10:27, 9 January 2018 (UTC)
• TOO SOON - Here's an idea. Let's see what naming reliable sources settle upon, and follow suit. --В²C ☎ 02:09, 11 January 2018 (UTC)
• Support - ABC might want to call its first season the first, and its true that it will be ABC's season 1, but its not the first season of the format, and it is certainly not a different show. The sources in this very article say that ABC acquired the format rights - if this was an entirely new or original show, they wouldn't have needed to. There aren't two Futurama or The Singing Bee articles when they moved broadcasters (the former from FOX to CC, the latter from NBC to CMT) or indeed three Australian Survivor articles (which has aired across 3 different channels over its 4 seasons) - American Idol shouldn't be any different -- Whats new?^(talk) 05:37, 11 January 2018 (UTC)
  • It's not for us to decide. How are reliable sources addressing the naming issue? That's our cue. --В²C ☎ 17:51, 11 January 2018 (UTC)
    • I agree with the former comment. Also, if anyone has noticed on American Idol's official YouTube, the revival's video titles end with [title] | AMERICAN IDOL 2018, which is somewhat similar to how season 13 and season 14's videos ended with [title] | AMERICAN IDOL SEASON XIII and [title] | AMERICAN IDOL SEASON XIV, respectively. Meanwhile, videos from previous seasons were simply titled "[title] AMERICAN IDOL SEASON 12", 11, etc. On the lead of their season's articles, it is also mentioned that the season is "styled" or "also known" as American Idol XIII and American Idol XIV. Therefore, I believe that this page should be moved to American Idol (season 16), with the lead sentence being "The sixteenth season of American Idol, also known as American Idol 2018, will premiere on the ABC television network on March 11, 2018. This is the first season on ABC, following the network's revival of the show in May 2017..." I have to admit I'm not entirely knowledgeable about what websites are considered reliable sources but I found USA Today and The Wrap refer to it as the "16th season". Heartfox (talk) 02:46, 14 January 2018 (UTC)
      • I agree with this proposal, about mentioning the show's different names, but keeping it under the Season 16 page to keep it in continuity with the previous iterations of the show. — Preceding unsigned comment added by DAndrewC (talk • contribs) 06:27, 14 January 2018 (UTC)
• Alternative proposal - There is a lot of speculation here so let's move it to draft space until it's determined whether it's actually a continuation of American Idol. If it is, merge the content to the American Idol article. If it's not, move the draft to American Idol (2018 TV series). American Idol (season 16) can be created separately with the appropriate infobox if this is just a continuation of the original series. Note that a change of format doesn't necessarily require a completely new article. Top Gear had new presenters and a new format but all of the content has easily been incorporated into Top Gear (2002 TV series). --AussieLegend (✉) 16:19, 14 January 2018 (UTC)
  • Not sure how we are even considering this a separate series. American Idol (2018 TV series) makes no sense. The show has the same YouTube, Twitter and Facebook as it did when it aired on Fox, and they're all actively promoting the upcoming season. On the Twitter description, it says "#AmericanIdol is back!" Ryan Seacrest has stated in interviews that the format is essentially the same and that it would be a "mistake" to change it. It's clear that this is a continuation. Heartfox (talk) 17:32, 14 January 2018 (UTC)
    • This is pretty much the same as what happened with Top Gear. --AussieLegend (✉) 18:42, 14 January 2018 (UTC)
      • Was it the correct thing to do though? There is no doubt with The Grand Tour on Amazon (different title), but a bit odd for the same show on the BBC (I had to check twice because it looks so strange). Hzh (talk) 19:50, 14 January 2018 (UTC)
        • Yes it was correct. --AussieLegend (✉) 20:03, 14 January 2018 (UTC)
• Support This is a continuation of the series based on reliable sources provided above and using the same social handles as the Fox version provided above. Any information about the series should be merged into American Idol and any information about the season should be moved to American Idol (season 16). Aspects (talk) 21:01, 14 January 2018 (UTC)
• Support for now - per nom, Heartfox, Aspects, Werldwayd, etc. Paintspot Infez (talk) 03:36, 18 January 2018 (UTC)
• Support for now. We can always move it again in the future if necessary. Rreagan007 (talk) 21:05, 18 January 2018 (UTC)
• Support because there is an established precedent with The X Factor (Australian TV series) where Seven Network considers season 2 through season 8 as their season 1-7. Even this about the show page clearly states the 2016 season (overall season 8) is their seventh season. The thing is the article should be titled by its common name as per WP:COMMONNAME and should follow established precedent. Irregardless of ABC calling it "season 1" it is more commonly known as "season 16". The opening lead can easily explain that it is the overall sixteenth season but first season to air on ABC and would resolve the issue. ♪♫Alucard 16♫♪ 13:09, 22 January 2018 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Article title discussion

Following from the previous discussion on the article title, and as the show is due to start soon, I thought I'd add a section to discuss the article title as there are different opinions with unresolved issues. This is to avoid having the title being constantly changed unnecessarily. The question would be whether we can consider this a new show or a continuation of the old one (therefore whether we should have a separate parent article from the main American Idol article), and should we decide that it is a new show, then how to name this new series of shows if it continues for a few seasons. I think we would need at the least to see how the media name this show, for example whether they call it season 1 or season 16. It might take a while, possibly months before we have a new consensus (if we have ever get one), and I hope people have the patience to wait, in the meantime respect the previous discussion and the consensus reached there. Please avoid moving the article until we have a new consensus. Hzh (talk) 10:58, 6 March 2018 (UTC)

Ratings table changes

While I agree that the combined ratings table is more efficient, I do feel excluding the timeslot column is not a good idea because it provides more context to the ratings changes over episodes. I believe that the ratings table template currently in use is more useful for shows airing one episode a week. For shows that air more than 1 episode a week, like Idol will, it's not as easy to analyze as others. Also, I feel like it's somewhat harder to edit and understand, as well as excluding the "weekly rank" column, which is good for comparing how a particular episode fared with other television shows of the week. I think we should switch back and have 2 separate tables, one for Live + SD, and one for Live + 7-day, so readers can understand timeslot and weekly rank changes. I wonder if anyone else shares my concerns. Heartfox (talk) 00:39, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

In general, I would say having a single ratings table is much preferable to having multiple tables. You get unnecessary duplication when you have two tables (the first 3 columns are the same). If you want to add the time slot or week rank, then it can be added, there is no need for a separate table. Hzh (talk) 10:26, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

I remember making a similar argument in a past season's article, but I cannot find any discussions of it or in any of my edit summaries, where I changed two tables into one commenting on using most of the columns in both tables and the second table only adding two new columns. I was reverted and dropped the issue. I am for one table here to not duplicate the episode number, title and air date and right now the table looks fine with the number of columns. If in the future, so many columns are added to make reading the table difficult, I would be probably be for splitting the information into two tables. Aspects (talk) 17:12, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

I prefer the merging of the two rating tables, hence the reason I combined the two tables into using the standardized television episode ratings template. It is redundant to have two ratings tables in order to report DVR ratings. With that said, regarding the timeslot and weekly ranks, it could be implemented if we reach consensus to add these parameters onto the template. That way, we can standardize these ratings tables and utilize these for future seasons.--JC (talk) 22:27, 20 March 2018 (UTC)

I feel while it is useful to have a standardized table, there is no reason why extra information cannot be added (or other information removed) in tables for different shows or seasons. The information available changes with different season, trying to enforce a standardized version is neither practically nor desirable. Hzh (talk) 12:08, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

Season Pages

After a one year hiatus since the show moved to a new network, this page should follow the original format of the previous one like American Idol (season 15). This will be used as a guide for new editors to be passed for upcoming season pages. Thank You and Happy Editing! TristanQuinn (talk) 10:09, 5 April 2018 (UTC)

While it is useful to follow what is done in previous seasons, if there are changes, then this article should reflect that. If the show says Top 24, then use Top 24 rather than semifinal (there has always been some confusion when semifinal starts anyway). Given that the show chose to describe the top 24 as finalists, probably best to not say they are semifinalists. Hzh (talk) 13:25, 5 April 2018 (UTC)

WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS Just because it was done a specific way on other articles, doesn't stop us from improving this article to a better format. Case in point all the tags in the previous articles showing that they are not perfect. Many of the tables are badly done so I'm going to try to improve them since they violate WP:ACCESSIBILITY. Also, with this revival, ABC has opted (so far) not to follow the previous title for the rounds such as Semi-finals, Finals. In fact, none of those terms as ever even been mentioned this season, so we should not be making assumptions based on past seasons, but instead use what ABC has been calling the rounds Showcase Round / Top 24 / Top 14. - Brojam (talk) 02:09, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

182.18.217.213: "Showcase Round" is not part of "Hollywood Week". The first sentence of Hollywood Week clearly says Hollywood Week airs over two episodes on March 26 and April 1. Also, I see no problem with adding a poster for this season. Just because they didn't have ones for the other seasons or that no one bothered to upload them doesn't prevent us from adding one for this season. - Brojam (talk) 02:16, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

The field says logo though, perhaps add a season logo instead? (We can also add the old logos for the previous seasons). Hzh (talk) 09:40, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

Alright, I'll see if there are any good quality images of the new logo used this season. If not, we can leave it empty. - Brojam (talk) 07:24, 7 April 2018 (UTC)

Regarding the format of the table, I have no strong opinion on how it is done (adding song is valid if they can be sourced), but it can always be a mix of the two different formats, for example they can be grouped by sex or indicated by color. Hzh (talk) 09:48, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

I have an issue. User:Brojam just changed the edits similar to The Voice (U.S. TV series) season page. It needs to be diffent like the Idol season page. He/she did not understand the meaning WP:VANDAL TristanQuinn (talk) 06:42, 7 April 2018 (UTC)

The page looks really similar to The Voice season page like The Voice (U.S. season 10). This page needs 2 be different just like American Idol (season 15). I need to change it back 2 the way it was but it does not work. Because there is a block 4 confirmed users. TristanQuinn (talk) 06:48, 7 April 2018 (UTC)

Yes, it looks similar to The Voice because the tables on those articles adhere to WP:ACCESIBILITY. If one series is doing it correctly, it doesn't stop us from also doing it correctly. The only thing that is really similar is the Elimination chart as well as the legend since it is using the same template {{color box}}, this is to follow WP:ACCESIBILITY, which the old one and the one used on the other seasons does not respect. My edits are to make it more clear for everyone. Have a look at WP:DTABTUT, where it talks about proper headers & captions, legends, correct use of colors and to avoid nested data tables. These are all things I've fixed with my edits. As mentioned above by Hzh, the Top 24 list can be grouped by female/male if you think that's better than with colors, but since it's used in the Elimination chart I figured it would be nice to have it on the Top 24 list as well. For Top 24 section, all I added was {{N/a}}s for the non-applicable cells and a line in between both episodes. - Brojam (talk) 07:23, 7 April 2018 (UTC)

Alyssa's Showcase Song.

Alyssa posted a video of her dress rehearsal for the Top 50 Showcase Round. Her song was "Every Breath You Take" by The Police. Just wanted to verify here whether or not that was a sufficient enough source to complete the chart?

Here is the link: https://twitter.com/AlyssaRaghu/status/981919089580003328

If it's acceptable, then the chart is now complete!--Cinemaniac⁸⁶_{Dane_Cook_Hater_Extraordinaire} 09:43, 7 April 2018 (UTC)

Yes, it is acceptable since she has a Verified Account per WP:Twitter-EL. Thanks! - Brojam (talk) 20:21, 7 April 2018 (UTC)

Couple Things

Could someone list the contestants in the elimination table in alphabetical order like in previous seasons. And Ada Vox is male as it's just Adam Sanders' drag persona and he is a dude. Thank you. Tyler Michael Mannix (talk) 02:00, 14 April 2018 (UTC)

Done. The rest of the list will be put in alpha order after the remaining results of the Top 24 are revealed on Monday. - Brojam (talk) 05:36, 14 April 2018 (UTC)

Elimination table change

I am proposing that the following colors be used for the elimination table for all seasons. All colors will remain the same as this season for all previous elimination tables.

Females

Males

Stage 1

Stage 2

Winner

Runner-up

Third place

Did Not Perform

Safe

Safe Last

Eliminated

Disqualified

What do you think of this idea? J4lambert (talk) 19:15, 23 April 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 24 April 2018

Top 14 - Change Ada Vox result from "Advanced" to "Not Chosen"

--- For Ada Vox on Sunday, April 22, it indicates he received the top six highest amount of vote and "Advanced" when in fact he was "Not Chosen" and was left to perform again for the judges on Monday, April 23 when he became a "Judges' choice". 69.209.235.201 (talk) 02:10, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

 Done - Brojam (talk) 02:17, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 August 2018

There is a grammar mistake at the top of the page. One sentence SHOULD read "This is the first season where the finale has more than two contestants (3)." Thank You! 2601:401:C400:357:50E9:E373:B2FB:DC43 (talk) 18:13, 3 August 2018 (UTC)

 Done Danski454 (talk) 20:54, 3 August 2018 (UTC)

Proposed merge of American Idol Live! 2018 into American Idol season 16

Insufficient secondary coverage of the concert tour for a stand-alone article. Walsh90210 (talk) 00:04, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

Keep — I was on the verge of concurring, but the prior tours' articles of Seasons 14 and 13 were relatively the same: the contestants and special guests who participated; their set list; and the tour dates/performance arenas. I would say either Keep All or Merge All otherwise, in that case. But the lede is horrendously insufficient, can't deny that. I'm pretty sure, apathetically mind you, that one could utilize MJsBigBlog, if that is considered a sufficient enough source, to beef it up somewhat. (She does have a press pass, fwiw.) If not, her archives are immaculate. Therefore, by just exhuming the articles for the tour, use the sources she links within the posts. --Cinemaniac86^Talk_Stalk 01:09, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

Closing given the uncontested objection and no support. Klbrain (talk) 16:23, 26 October 2024 (UTC)