Talk:Anthony Pateras

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[Untitled]

Hi everyone, I fixed some issue with this page in terms of organization of the information and the weird long quotes from one critic.

) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Apol11 (talk • contribs) 12:18, 1 October 2021 (UTC)

@Apol11: Wow! You've completely revamped this article and thrown out a lot of work with no attempt at collaboration with previous editors.

If "weird long quotes from one critic" are an issue for you, why didn't you discuss how they could be trimmed or replaced by alternative critical views. Instead you threw out material, which was reliably referenced without due regard.

Your use of questionable sources such as blogs and Discogs makes this article poorer and should be avoided.

I would like to discuss the article's new structure and its non-neutral point of view to arrive at a consensus to improve it.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 13:04, 1 October 2021 (UTC)

@User:Shaidar cuebiyar it was not my intention to throw out other people's work. i am new here, and wanted to correct an entry that was inaccurate and, to be honest, did not seem to have a lot of traffic / discussion. i could see that there was an attempt to have it removed, for which there was no consensus, and i thought a thorough edit might help with that. what about the new structure do you think needs discussion? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Apol11 (talk • contribs) 13:34, 1 October 2021 (UTC)

@Apol11: As indicated above, you have used Questionable and self-published sources. Some of the content you added is cited by non-independent sources, e.g. record companies, music festivals, blogs and the artist's website. I have removed some of these and will continue to do so. You removed the Discography table and replaced it with an awkward looking set of bullet listings.

As a courtesy, when writing on talk pages, such as this one, use ~~~~ at the end of your commentary to sign it. This makes it easier for others to know who said what.

As for the article's removal, it was proposed for deletion on the basis that the artist was not notable. The proposer claimed to be the subject of the article. I refuted the assertion that the artist was not notable and, if you read the discussion (here), you'll see that the proposer and I were the only two with significant discussion about the article's notability.

As for your version of the article I have re-arranged it using the following order: Early years, Solo work, Collaborations, Music approach, Discography, Awards and nominations. I believe this flows better than your form. Within each section material should be arranged, where possible, in chronological order.

I am part way through the Collaboration section, checking formatting and reliability of sources. If you have problems with my edits discuss them here and we'll try to reach a consensus on its form.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 01:19, 3 October 2021 (UTC)01:22, 3 October 2021 (UTC)

@Apol11: I have finished my run through of the article. I have incorporated much of your material but some has been reworded and other content dropped. I hope you like how the article looks now.

The Solo work section is fairly large and some sort of chronological sub-dividing would be possible e.g. === 1999 to 2008 === for first five ¶¶, === 2009 to 2015 === for next four ¶¶, and === 2016 to current === for the remainder of that section.

If you require assistance with your editing, either on this article or elsewhere, ask at the Teahouse.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 05:01, 3 October 2021 (UTC)

October 2021: Request edit

Hello, this is the subject the article, Anthony Pateras, here. I have a conflict of interest therefore would like to request some edits. There seems to be some activity on this article recently and I would like to clarify three things.

1) My main issue is with the way the discography is presented. The credits of the albums in this table are inconsistent, often wrong and many are not listed. Whatsmore at the moment it's spread over two formats for some reason. I would prefer the lower format if possible, which is list form, in reverse chronological order, separated by collaborator/project. Not the table.

If someone could please replace the table with the following it would be much appreciated:

• Solo albums
  • Pseudacusis (Bocian, 2021)
  • Collected Works Vol. II [2005-2018] (Immediata, 2019)
  • Blood Stretched Out (Immediata, 2017)
  • Collected Works Vol. I [2002-2012] (Immediata, 2012)
  • Errors Of The Human Body OST (Editions Mego, 2012)
  • Chromatophore (Tzadik, 2008)
  • Chasms (sirr.ecords, 2007)
  • Mutant Theatre (Tzadik, 2004)
  • Malfunction Studies (self-released, 2002)
• with Robin Fox
  • End of Daze (Editions Mego, 2009)
  • Flux Compendium (Editions Mego, 2006)
  • Coagulate (Synaesthesia, 2003)
• with Pateras/Baxter/Brown
  • Bern · Melbourne · Milan (Immediata, 2019)
  • Live At L'Usine (Cave12, 2008)
  • Interference (emp.pl/records, 2008)
  • Gauticle (Synaesthesia, 2006)
  • Ataxia (Synaesthesia, 2004)
• with Erkki Veltheim
  • Duos For Other Instruments (All That Dust, 2020)
  • The Slow Creep Of Convenience (Immediata, 2017)
  • Entertainment = Control (Immediata, 2015)
• with Thymolphthalein
  • Mad Among The Mad (Immediata, 2015)
  • Ni Maître, Ni Marteau (Editions Mego, 2011)
• with North of North
  • North of North (Off Compass, 2018)
  • The Moment In and Of Itself (Immediata, 2016)
• with Valerio Tricoli (Astral Colonels)
  • The Difference Of Similarity/The Similarity Of Difference (Second Sleep, 2019)
  • Good Times In The End Times (Immediata, 2016)
• with Rohan Drape
  • The traces of a mistake, the most simple one possible the reactions of even younger children (Superpang, 2021)
  • Ellesmere (Immediata, 2018)
• with tētēma
  • Necroscape (Ipecac, 2020)
  • Geocidal (Ipecac, 2014)
• Miscellaneous
  • with eRikm: Albedo (CCAM Editions, 2019)
  • with Beta Erko: I'm OK. You're OK. (Quecksilber, 2005)
• Guest appearances
  • Sunn O))): Life Metal (Southern Lord, 2019)
  • Fennesz: Black Sea (Touch, 2008)
  • Oren Ambarchi: In The Pendulum's Embrace (Southern Lord, 2008)

2) The genres are wrong. I do not write neoclassical music, I write contemporary classical music. There's a big difference. Also electronic music tends to suggest more popular forms. I would prefer the word "electro-acoustic" if editors are open to that.

3) This sentence misspells my name, and reads awkwardly:

In 2007 he completed his PhD at Monash University with Thomas Reiner, Patras' thesis was, "Exploratory combinations of composition, improvisation and electronics based on relationships between form and timbre."[11]

Should be:

In 2007 he completed his PhD at Monash University with Thomas Reiner. Pateras' thesis was, "Exploratory combinations of composition, improvisation and electronics based on relationships between form and timbre."[11]

I'm sorry that in the past that I edited this article myself using my own name "Anthonypateras". That was meant to be a transparent gesture, and to clarify what is written about me on the internet. I'm uncomfortable with the article being here as it is, as indicated by my later request to delete, but if it needs to stay, please include these changes if you are able, and have the time.

Yours sincerely,

Anthony Pateras

Replies

1. Wikipedia provides a style guide for the formatting of discographies. See Wikipedia:WikiProject Discographies/style
   1. Specifically it states, "A table-based list of official releases, in chronological order from earliest to latest." The latter entries were left untabulated, when I moved on to other articles and/or real-life.
   2. Where content is inaccurate or incomplete reliable sources maybe required for the changes you request.
2. Genre changes also require reliable sources. In this case, I believe the article already has such sources to support "contemporary classical music" and "electro-acoustic". I will do this soon.
3. Sorry, mea culpa. I'll change this, too.
4. On talk pages, like this one, please sign at the end of your commentary with ~~~~ (four tildes). This makes it easier for editors to determine, who wrote what.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 10:58, 14 October 2021 (UTC)

@Sharing the world: Points #2 and #3 are completed. For point #1 all releases already in the article have been tabulated. They are listed chronologically starting with solo material and followed by duos/collaborations by chronological order of first release. I have re:attributed some of these due to your information, above. The other releases indicated above require independent reliable sources and have not yet been included. Ping me once you have those sources.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 00:11, 15 October 2021 (UTC)

@Shaidar cuebiyar: Thank you for your changes and response. I will eventually source that discography information for you so it can be complete and correct. In any case, it reads much clearer with the discography table split into the different projects as you have done.

I did have another question: why is there a standalone section for the APRA Music Awards on the page? I ask because it reads like another article suddenly. I was nominated three times, and all nominations are mentioned at the beginning of the article, in the solo work section, and in the awards/nominations section as well. This makes for quite an APRA-centric read, when it's quite a small part of what the page discusses in total? My suggestion would be to keep the nominations only in the awards/nominations section, without the sub-section on the awards themselves. Thank you for considering. Sharing the world (talk) 00:41, 15 October 2021 (UTC)

@Sharing the world: The lead-in section under the subHeading APRA Music Awards is to explain to the general reader what those awards are. My ignorance of the other displayed awards prevents me from making similar lead-ins there. As I understand it, general readers of this article would expect to see awards an artist is nominated for and by whom. Some will read the Lead and choose to go straight to the Awards and nominations section, without reading the main text.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 00:57, 15 October 2021 (UTC)

Discography additions

@Shaidar cuebiyar: Here is the requested discography information and sources. I hope they are sufficient for you. Thank you.

• with Valerio Tricoli (Astral Colonels)
  • Good Times In The End Times (Immediata, 2016)
  • The Difference Of Similarity/The Similarity Of Difference (Second Sleep, 2019)
• with Rohan Drape
  • Ellesmere (Immediata, 2017)
  • The traces of a mistake, the most simple one possible the reactions of even younger children (Superpang, 2021)
• Miscellaneous Collaborations
  • with Beta Erko: I'm OK. You're OK. (Quecksilber, 2005)
  • with Extended Pianos (Robin Fox, Erik Griswold): Switch On A Dime (Immediata, 2016)
  • with Anthony Burr: The Long Exhale (Immediata, 2016)
  • with Chris Abrahams (176): Music In Eight Octaves (Immediata, 2017)
  • with Stephen O’Malley: Rêve Noir (Immediata, 2017)
  • with eRikm: Albédo (CCAM Editions, 2019)
  • with Jérôme Noetinger: A Sunset For Walter (Penultimate Press, 2019)

Sharing the world (talk) 23:51, 17 October 2021 (UTC)

@Sharing the world: thanks for those. I'm busy elsewhere at the moment but hope to get to these within the week.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 23:57, 17 October 2021 (UTC)

References

Summary of output

@Sharing the world: I think I've added all of these releases. I did not use all of the references. For some I've added archive-urls. I hope the article is now more up-to-date for its discography.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 17:44, 21 October 2021 (UTC)

@Shaidar cuebiyar: Thank you very much! I read the article one last time, I noticed the formats for a lot of the releases were missing and some other very minor typos below. I would fix these myself if I was allowed, sorry for the extra work.

FORMATS:

-Pseudacusis - CD -Live at L’Usine - CD -Bern Melbourne Milan - 2CD -Ni Maitre Ni Marteau - LP -Mad Among the Mad - CD -Geocdial - LP/CD/DL -Necroscape - LP/CD/DL -The Slow Creep On Convenience - CD -Duos for Other instruments - CD -The Moment In Of Itself - CD -North of North - CD -The Traces….DL -In the Pendulum’s Embrace - LP -Black Sea - CD -Life Metal - LP/CD/DL

TYPOS:

- Early years: Line 3: Punter = Punters. - 2009 to 2015: Re: Ontetradecagon - I performed the piece in studio, as per the source you've quoted, not AAO. - 2016 to current: Pseudcausis is a concert work, later released as an album (i.e. wasn't commissioned as an album) - Pivixki: 1st line - “drumer” = “drummer” - Discog, solo: Delirioso is not an album, it’s a track on the release before it (Collected Works 2002-2012).

Sharing the world (talk) 22:37, 21 October 2021 (UTC)

I have closed this request edit because it is unclear what the requester would like changed, due to the long discussion. If there are still changes that are requested, the requesters can open a new request below with the changes outlined. Z1720 (talk) 18:28, 1 April 2022 (UTC)