Talk:Arnulf of Metz

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old talk[edit]

Does anyone know anything about this Mellobaude descent?

To me it looks quite dubious, especially

Cloderic of Cologne (477 -509) married Parricide

The thing is tht Cloderic murdered his father and hence can be surnamed "Parricida" (Father-killer). It doubt it very much, that he had married a woman of that name, even if a woman of such a name would have existed (which is more than doubtful).

Str1977 22:22, 10 July 2005 (UTC)

I agree. One presumes that Parricide's father would have stepped in at some point during the naming process. When you add the unlikelihood that a woman with such an unfortunate name should marry a man who had killed his father (the irony would be a bit too great, I think), it makes the assertion unbelievable. Unless some pretty fine substantiating evidence appears in the next few days, I think removing the list is a reasonable response. Jwrosenzweig 08:27, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

Before his consecration?[edit]

I believe he was married while bishop. That was then legal, I think. Can anybody confirm this? If so, when were the children born? Srnec 02:58, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

Indeed, he was already married, BUT his wife had become a nun before his consecration. This was legal up to the late Middle Ages. Arnulf then in turn became a priest himself. Therefor the office of bishop of Metz was offered to him because he already was a priest. The Count of Zielin (talk) 18:32, 21 July 2015 (UTC)

Two hop-picking, brewing Arnulf/Arnolds[edit]

An editor inexperienced in hagiography has decided which Arnold is the beer brewer's saint, and is determined to suppress the following Wikipedia text: "Arnulf or Arnold of Metz competes with the eleventh-century Arnold of Soissons for the identity of the Saint Arnold who is patron of hop-pickers." This neutral bit of text, supported even by the iconography of the two saints, is useful information. There's no reason to suppress it. On what basis is this being challenged: perhaps only because the Saint Arnold Brewing Company of Houston, Texas has picked one over the other and has had a link inserted into this text? --Wetman 05:45, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Was it really necessary to cast such aspersions in my direction? I have made no such decision. Nor was I the editor to originally include the information about the brewery.
It turns out that there are several saints who are identified as patron saints of brewers[1]. Curiously enough, I notice, Arnulf of Metz is not one of them[2][3]. Perhaps Mr. Wagner's research was faulty. I simply question the use of "competes with" when used in these articles. How can two dead guys compete with one another?
On the other hand, while reviewing my edits to this article, I discovered that my reversion of this edit was in error (I was tired and read it wrong?) My apologies to the previous editor. —Travistalk 13:11, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
Please note, Gentle Reader, that Wetman's complaint
An editor inexperienced in hagiography has decided which Arnold is the beer brewer's saint
is not addressed by this neutral bit of text
"Arnulf or Arnold of Metz competes with the eleventh-century Arnold of Soissons for the identity of the Saint Arnold who is patron of hop-pickers."
For full disclosure, yes, I have been known to enjoy a St. Arnold beer on occasion, have visited the brewery, and chatted with the owner. That is what originally piqued my interest in this article and why, in my wiki-inexperience, I inserted a commercial link where it didn't belong. I quickly learned the error of my ways and have since become a patroller for inappropriate commercial links, amongst other things. See for yourself.Travistalk 12:32, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

He is my direct paternal ancestor![edit]

Im related to him.

I'm his direct ancestor as well, as are probably most people of French descent, just most people don't have complete records showing a direct line of descent. Camelbinky (talk) 00:25, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

You have to give me the ingredients for your anti-aging lotion, then. ;-)
This here just as a caveat: Of course rich and influential people have usually had more descendants than poor people, so we can assume quite a number of people to have descended from Arnulf and other nobs of his days. But take a look at a few of the very popular "descent from Charlemagne" genealogies and you will find that, generally, it was gaps in the records of maternal ancestry for counts and dukes of the High Middle Ages which were more or less arbitrarily filled with women of actual or alleged Carolingian descent. The largest part of commonly accepted, "traceable" lines of descent from the Carolingians are more than badly flawed by genealogical gap-filling. The Carolingians were the most popular ancestors by far, so don't believe everybody who claims to have descended from them. Trigaranus (talk) 09:52, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
I think also one needs to consider the fact that as one progresses further back up one's genealogy that the earlier we get the human population diminishes, thus the further we go back the more likely we are to find ourselves an ancestor "worth claiming"! Proberton (talk) 11:31, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Why was he sainted?[edit]

What did he (or his relics do) that made him eligible to be a saint? Rmhermen (talk) 04:29, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Arnulf became a very religious person after he had become bishop and did his job very dutiful. As you can see from the legends, he was very sorry for the things he had done before his consecration. That was also the reason why he gave up his office voluntarily and became an eremite instead. Due to his influence on the evolvement of the Carolingian Empire, his love for God and care for subjects of his diocese (and not to forget the influence of the Caroligians on the pope) he was sainted, since there was some evidence and it was a harmless way of pleasing the Carolingians. The Count of Zielin (talk) 18:39, 21 July 2015 (UTC)