Talk:BioForge

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Former good article nominee BioForge was a Video games good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There are suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
May 26, 2006 Good article nominee Not listed
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Cyberpunk[edit]

I am dubious if the game fits in the cyberpunk category. It's mostly about aliens, robots, planets and space, not cities, gangs, hackers or cyberspace. Pictureuploader 11:46, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Now, correct me if I am wrong, but as you are correct this is not exactly a generic cyberpunk game, it IS an RPG, has a main character who has had operations that replaced parts of their body with mechanics, and seems to be based in a rather dark and technologically advanced (including the ever-Cyberpunk laser guns) future. There may be others, but I do not know because I have only read the Wikipedia article, heh. --Twerty


Agreed, it does not fit the description. There are about 13 characters in the entire game, most of them are soldiers in the facility, about three are alien (two involved in combat). There are a few mech bi-pedal enemies. Very little RPG elements here either, it's much more action/adventure based. If I had to compare it to something it would be along the lines of Overblood (PS1), yet retians a unique combat system that really can't be compared to anything else at the time. It perhaps may have been confused with System Shock, as I do believe Bioforge, System Shock, and Wing Commander: Heart of the Tiger were sold in an Origin triple pack years ago (where I first obtained all three games). System Shock most definitely fits the cyber punk theme, and could have been confused as both games feature the player character awakening from slumber, having been surgically modified with cybernetic enhancements. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.236.245.98 (talk) 15:33, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Technical section[edit]

Relegating the game to be a mere clone of Aitd is a little simplifying. Fighting monsters in a desolate, bleak, 3D environment sounds more like Doom, perhaps it would fit in a "Inspiration" section IvanDíaz 11:24, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

  • My original edit was more clear. The actual similarities are, besides gameplay, the discovery and reading of logs which boost the atmosphere and also hint about the backstory. The latter part was copyedited to other section making the similarity more obscure Pictureuploader 12:11, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
    • Point taken, the control method (rotate, then walk; fight moves standing in the same place), fixed camera angles and damage visualization (which appears not so explicitly on Aitd2) can be added as common point. But perhaps the section should be named "Inspirations". IvanDíaz 14:47, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

I reworded the Story section, but I remember there was at least another survivor in the cells, a blue cyborg you can kill with his own arm?. I'm not sure, though :). IvanDíaz 15:09, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

I can confirm that. The screenshot I added shows the severed arm. -Phorque 18:54, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
The survivor in the cell is a security guard named Caynan, who was taken prisoner and served as a test subject for futher experiments in the Mondites cyborg assassin project. He has been driven insane by experiments, and if i recall, gene therapy that turned his skin color blue. He severs his arm off-screen (and before gameplay begins), apparently trying to get through the force bars on his cell. His arm is used to access a finger print scan on the cell block exit (as he was a security officer, his hand print still works to unlock the door). -- Raijin1999 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.236.245.98 (talk) 16:00, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

It seems that the backgrounds in at least the first two Alone in the dark games are hand-drawn, not pre-rendered, see Talk:Alone in the Dark (series). It would be interesting to confirm this about Bioforge backgrounds. IvanDíaz 15:49, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Bioforge Extension?[edit]

I remember that Origin games from this time had Director-like adverts in the CD (from a Origin division named chicken-boy or somesuch) One of these announced an extension of Bioforge that continued the plot from the end. Tomorrow I will post the details, somebody knows if it was published? IvanDíaz 12:05, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Quotes[edit]

I remember Bioforge having some pretty memorable quotes. I might even dig up the game again if nobody else can find them.

One was something along the lines of "I didn't have to kill you... but I (prefer/enjoy (?)) the silence." if you kill the space marine you interrogate on the roof. Can anyone verify the exact line or any other good ones for inclusion in the article? -Phorque 19:01, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

I made a screenshot of that quote, unfortunately there was an earthquake at the time .... :). The funny bit is that the poor soldier was accidentaly killed by a rebounded shoot. Anyway, the quote is: "I'm sorry I had to kill you, but I must admit I'm enjoying the silence." IvanDíaz 21:30, 9 March 2006 (UTC) Other quotes:

  • I guess we Mondites aren't one big happy family after all.
  • I hope Mastaba rewards your loyalty by making you his next subject!.
  • I swear that when my time comes, I will not die a puppet like yourself.
  • That was one sorry excuse for a security robot. Makes a great bonfire, though...

IvanDíaz 18:26, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

That's awesome. I'm creating a wikiquote page. Thank you! =) - Phorque 20:31, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Li from Romania

Some more quotes, and I'm pretty sure I remember them correctly.

Caynan:

  • "You have two arms. One must be removed."
  • "You stand upon holy ground. It's fitting you should kneel."
  • "If you've come for the fork you'll be sorely dissapointed."
  • "I shall pattern my life after the random loopings of your entrails!"

Lex:

  • "We should not be enemies! We should work together!" (I think it was while fighting Caynan)
  • "I have no wish to harm you." (I think it was while fighting Caynan)(I think it was while fighting Caynan)
  • "I am sorry, my friend, we are both victims, you and I." ( I think it was right after killing Caynan)
  • "I'm sorry I had to kill you, but I must admit, I'm enjoying the silence" (after killing a marine)
  • "Send my regards to your friends...when you get there." (after killing a marine)

Mastaba:

  • "Am I your god, because I created you? Or are you my god, because you embody everything I adore?"

Gameplay section[edit]

My question was about the quote in the first paragraph which reads "...since the player is unaware of his identity, which depends on his actions during the game." I thought that the identity was chosen at random. I don't know of any significant change in gameplay that would allow you to finish the game, yet impact what identity would be chosen for you. Can anyone support this quote? ClarkBHM 02:25, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

On that note, how do you find out your name is "Lex" regardless of your identity. I just can't remember that. - Phorque 09:38, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
  • It does not appear ingame AFAIK, but the README.TXT included with the game mentions this name in the Game Startup - Questions & Answers section IvanDíaz 11:49, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
  • I remember hearing when the game came out how your character's identity changed depending on your actions. When I beat the game several months ago, I played it as a "good" guy (e.g., not killing the one-armed prisoner or the security guard on the roof). When I found out my true identity, my character was described as a former Mondite who had been selected for experimentation because he was too pacifistic. Anyone gone on a killing rampage and gotten a different identity? Mr.Gruntor 22:21, 2 April 2006 (UTC)


From Raijin1999@yahoo.com I remember I did, but cannot remember which Identity. I also remember, and this was confirmed by reading another reaction from a user on a random bioforge message board hunt, that I had found out I was a female character. Go figure.

There are a few other quotes I remember, that others probably will. The blue guy with one arm...His name was Caynan (spelling?). He was one of the survivors of the experiments but had gone insane. His logbook was funny. Anybody remember the contents?

As for a quote from him, when Lex (I always thought this refferred to the possible player outcome of Lexxen Rann (spelling? again), picks up Caynan's fork, Caynan states in rage, "Return the fork or I will command it to destroy you!" or "Give me the fork or I will command it to destroy you!". At which point he attacks you. His severed arm (he tried to leave his cell, and the laser bars cut it off) can be used to hit him (the animation did no alter from regular punches and kicks, it's just that you held the arm in your hand), and his weak spot was his bloody stump ; or you could just run away and let him live. I assume this altered the identity of Lex as well.

Another quote is from Lex, when he kills his first sentry bot in the halls (which appears much like the scene in the opening picture of him stalking in the darkness)... "Eat light, you stupid machine!"

There was also another survivor of the experiments, by the name of Mardic Dane (spelling?). He was going to be operated on by the evil Dr.Mastaba. At the last minute, Lex enters the OR and confronts Mastaba. Mastaba explains what he is, and how he has control over Lex. To my rusty memory, Mastaba lifts up a control device and calls in a guard from outside. He hits a switch, and Lex enters combat mode and fires his PDF laser at the guard.

Horrified with being used as a weapon, Lex struggles but can't overcome Mastaba's control. Dane, on the operating table, comes to and reaches out. He grabs the control device in Mastaba's hand and crushes it. Lex blacks out. When he comes to, Mastaba is gone, and you're able to talk to Dane briefly (can't remember the details). Eventually you're able to put Dane out of his misery. I'm not sure if this was automatic or optionable. And I think you were able to remove his battery charge to end his suffering. Does any of this ring any bells?


One other thing I noticed is the multiple endings. I only received this ending once, and also confirmed it on a message board with someone else; near the middle of the game you come into contact with that raging alien. (Not to be confused with the moons already raging creatures, one of which lurks in a sewer like area of the game and you have to freeze to get past). The alien is a Phyxx soldier, and it attacks you (thinks you are part of the evil scientists). Eventually Lex kills the alien out of defense, but after its repetetive attacks, near the end of the game you see another alien and may come to the conclusion to defend yourself.

This alien (Phyxx race) is indeed friendly, and is a wise sage that explains much to your character. However due to the previous encounter with the Phyxx soldier, some might have beat him down as he eerily floated right up to you. The alien seemed to open his arms wide, as if to bearhug the character. I freaked out and killed him the first time. Doing so causes you to get the bad ending; where Lex cannot escape in the Icarus before the facility explodes. (He has pangs of regret when he tries to insert the salvaged batter from the dead alien into the Icarus' panel, and can't 'leave')

Therefore it is advisable you pay close attention to the plot, as to realize the Phyxx intentions, and make multiple save games.


It has been reported that this game can once again run under a windows OS (XP) outside of 95 and the first edition of windows 98, using the latest version of the 'dosbox' program.


I always imagined making a comic out of Bioforge. When I was about 13 (1996) I had wrote 14 pages worth of my story version of Bioforge. It was incomplete and went up right up to Lex getting ready to battle Caynan. Never got around to finishing it, but Bioforge was always something I liked a lot. The presentation was very strange, compelling, and exciting to me. This game was compiled in an Origin gamepack my dad brought home from God knows where; that included Wing Commander III: Heart of the Tiger, and System Shock. All 3 games were outstanding games, though I never did finish WCIII or SS, they did go on to become memorable classics. System Shock's intro scared the crap out of me. Shodan was awesome; and that memorable quote "Look at you hacker...a pathetic creature of meat and bone, panting and sweating as you run through my coridoors. How can you challenge a perfect imortal machine?".

Origin's games always made me want to see movie versions of them, and Bioforge was top on my list. Even to this day I wonder how a 'forge movie would work. I still think it could work out pretty great. The character identity, mech enemy element, hostile creature element, the alien Phyxx element, and the dark nature of humanity theme. If not a movie, i'd love to see a remake on the new consoles.

As i wrote below, the LEXXEN RANN person doesn't even seem to be a candidate for the final identity revelation! The file reads LEX, but if you look just above that there's also a LEXXEN, who receives an incompatible genetic structure... LEX is probably a word referring to the final evaluation, sort of a <put the name here> code thingie. Gylfi (talk) 01:06, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Untitled[edit]

Thank you all for the nice and productive cooperation!! Pictureuploader 09:06, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks to you too. It's been a trip for me remembering all the funny little things about this game. - Phorque 14:31, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

ken demarest quote[edit]

can somebody tell me where that quote came from so that i can footnote it? - Phorque (talk · contribs) 15:46, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

From raijin1999: Which quote, to be precise?

The one with "citation needed" next to it. - Phorque (talk · contribs) 14:11, 04 May 2006 (UTC)


Raijin1999: Still searching for any interview material with Ken, though considering the age of the game, it's probably not on the internet, but rather in a magazine. On a side note, it seems we aren't the only ones who remember Bioforge. Tim Schafer does as well. :D

http://www.gamestudies.org/0301/pearce/ "Cecilia Pearce: That was when people were just starting to do this hybrid 3D background with sprite animation on top of it, so you felt like you were in a 3D space, even though it was really just layers of animation over a virtual set.

Tim Schafer: There was a game called BioForge, this really interesting game by Ken Demarest that came out a couple of years earlier. That was one of those interesting games, where your space ship crashes, there are fifteen people, everybody's dead but you. You hit your head, you don't remember who you are, and your body has been mutated by some scientist, so you look in the mirror and you're this hideous thing. And you find out at the end of the game, who you were on the ship, but it's different every time you play based on how you acted. So if you got through the puzzles by killing, you would turn out to be the more military guy on the space ship. And if you solve the puzzles in a different way you're a different character."

Needs Work[edit]

Some of this information is incorrect. For instance, Dr. Mastaba is NOT the same person as the Prime Paragon. He's just the base commander of Daedalus and head of the ABA project. The Prime Paragon is the leader of the Mondites, whom you never actually meet in the game. You read a little bit about him at one of the terminals, but it's just a plot device to give you some impression of how insane these people are.

I am not terribly familiar with wiki editing yet, but I am big fan of this game and I will make these corrections as soon as possible.

-CyberRaptor

I made those changes. It's been years since I had the game in my possession so I can't prove or disprove most of these facts. - Phorque 18:07, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, Phorque. I made the intended changes now, but I appreciate your work. If there's anything I left out, misspelled, etc, please feel free to make any corrections necessary. :) CyberRaptor 01:24, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Hey, good work. Can't fault you on your edits. I just cleaned up tiny patches. - Phorque 05:49, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Excellent. We've greatly improved this article. Thanks for adding in the links and the Daedalus reference to mythology. Glad to see there are still some people out there who remember Bioforge. CyberRaptor 07:26, 17 May 2006 (UTC)


Hey guys/gals, what say you we put together a Bioforge game script? Plus, all the logbook entries from characters are located in one of the files in the game directory (labeled textf, I think. I forget the extension). Copy, paste, cleanup- archive that thing somewhere. Maybe upload the scripts as "FAQS" to places like gamefaqs/neoseeker, etc.- Raijin

As usual on the Internet, someone somewhere already had way too much time: http://lparchive.org/LetsPlay/Bioforge/index.html . Reading that brings back memories... --Cyberman TM (talk) 09:14, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Getting BioForge to work[edit]

Because of the game's age, and because it was designed strictly for DOS, the emulator DosBox is most likely the only way one could play it now. Anyone who reads this page is obviously someone who has an interest in BioForge, classic games, etc. With this in mind, I'd like advice on whether it would be appropriate to add some sort of instructions on getting the game to run on newer computers, or at least whether I should add a link to the DosBox website. CyberRaptor 11:03, 18 May 2006 (UTC)


GA failed[edit]

Its an interesting read, i made some small copy edits to remove POV. Images need to relate more to the article content rather than just decorations, as decorations they are nice but dont comply to fair use. There is a cite in the article which needs to be addressed as its a subsatancial statement. Gnangarra 09:45, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

I have to disagree with you about the images in the article. I've played BioForge extensively, and I think they help to convey an overall sense of what the game is about. The one showing the injuries visible on the game's character is especially important, because it relates to the information regarding the technology used in making the game. Certainly the screenshots aren't doing any harm; I was thinking of adding another one myself. CyberRaptor 02:31, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Bioforge Revival[edit]

Interest in Bioforge over a decade later speaks volumes for the game! For those interested I have written tools to extract the media content from the game (Animated backgrounds, Sound and Music, 3D character models, etc.) in the hope of one day (re)creating the game for Windows/Linux. Do a search for 'Bioforge Tools' in a popular search engine if you're interested.

Personality[edit]

As mentioned above, your identity was determined by your actions. If you open the file SCRIPT\CONOPER.SCP,
you'll find a function called PERSONALITY_WEB_COMPUTE. These script files seem to be semi-compiled, it looks
like comments and indentation are intact, commands might be too ("I" if "IF", "E" for "ELSE", "THEN" for
"THEN", and {brackets} like C/C++/friends); however variables seem to be binary garbage, probably pointers.

That said, it's really easy to make sense of the code, and you can do a search in the rest of the files for the
variables to guess what they mean. With that in mind, I believe I reverse-engineered the identity computation.

There are four (4) decisions that affect the outcome. These are:

RTW: Roland (Tower Guard) [1 = left alive; 0 = killed]
DOR: Dane (Operation Room) [1 = left alive; 0 = killed]
ESC: Dr. Escher (Excavation site) [1 = helped her; 0 = not helped]
GEN: Gen (Alien City) [1 = left alive; 0 = killed]

As said above, if GEN = 0 the game can't be completed (or I haven't been able to), but you still get an
identity. Also, note how killing Caynan doesn't seem to make a difference, which makes sense, because all the
choices are against non-hostile enemies, and Caynan is hostile.

The personality net is:

RTW DOR ESC GEN Identity
 0   0   0   0  TOMIK SARTA
 0   0   0   1  UNION SOO
 0   0   1   0  UNION SOO
 0   0   1   1  NESTOR STROM
 0   1   0   0  REMARRO MONIK
 0   1   0   1  BERIN DODESKADEN
 0   1   1   0  JOHN HIGHHILL
 0   1   1   1  BERIN DODESKADEN
 1   0   0   0  JONATHAN ONE
 1   0   0   1  MORGAN BLADE
 1   0   1   0  MORGAN BLADE
 1   0   1   1  RATHMAN PANE
 1   1   0   0  MERL TRUSTIC
 1   1   0   1  POPUL MARKO
 1   1   1   0  POPUL MARKO
 1   1   1   1  VIDOR SELMAK

(original order in the script is a bit different, ESC starts with 1 and not with 0)

(1,1,1,1 is "you have been very nice" and 0,0,0,0 is "very evil")

Now, in the Operation Room console, when you use the code, several things may happen.

1. You haven't spoken with Gen yet (see below how to get the code earlier; or just reload an earlier savegame
after you got it the right way). In this case, you haven't had a chance to take all four decisions, and the
personality is not computed. You'll see the default confidential information for all patients.

2. You have spoken with Gen (or killed it). In that case, you can see the default confidential information on
all patients, except the one you are, which will be changed to

   RESULTS: Subject Survived Procedure.  Subject designated AP-127, and moved to Security Cell 3 for Recovery.

You can get the code early by looking at the save game file (the code is random like all the others and is
stored in the variables ESCHER_ID1_TO_MATCH..ESCHER_ID5_TO_MATCH which are in GAMEDAT/VARS.DEF corresponding to
the most recent played game; they can be found in the GAMEx.IM1 savegame files too, which are just a container
for all the files inside GAMEDAT).

If you want to see all the texts without starting the game, they can be found in MONITORS\TEXT.FLX (for
English; GTEXT.FLX for German and FTEXT.FLX for French), but it's a semi-binary format. "PROJECT ABA CASE
HISTORIES" is what you can always see; "PROJECT AFA CASE HISTORIES" is the confidential information. You can
see how the protagonist is indeed called Lex, at least internally.

Nuk 18:58, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Very interesting ethical system, formidable... I'd have hated to be obliged to be that nonsense pirate guy. When i played back then i did different choices but this time I was Vidor Selmak. Gylfi (talk) 00:41, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

There's a misunderstanding, tho. In the TEXT.FLX file you mention there's a LEXXEN (the pirate, who just received an incompatible genetic structure and probably died or dies), and there's a "LEX" that's been moved to cell 3. This doesn't result in presuming that you're the "pirate", which I suspect it's merely a joke reference or accusation to game piracy heh. The word LEX must then refer to the calculation made by the game from the 1,0,0,1 system you mention... besides, the LEXXEN fellow doesn't even appear as a possibility in the killing/sparing personas list you wrote. But it's an ingenious system, I must admit. Gylfi (talk) 00:53, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

DOSBox, cycles and SPEED_FACTOR[edit]

The game does seem to run perfectly with DOSBox. There are some important things to mention though, which also apply to a native environment with no emulation:

  • If the emulation speed (DOSBox cycles) is too low, the game won't start - the introduction cutscene will play, you will be able to select a difficulty setting, but then the game won't get to where it actually starts (the cell). I believe this is a problem of the game itself, I recall it failing to start the same way (or taking a very long time) on a 33MHz 486, which was bellow the requirements. To solve it, cycles should be at least ~7500. 10000 is recommendable, and with 12500+ the game will run rather well. (The default key in DOSBox to increase cycles is CTRL-F12).
  • The game seems to perform a test to set the speed (SPEED_FACTOR), however it seems to work badly. The speed of the game doesn't seem to depend on the machine (CPU speed / frames per second), but only in the SPEED_FACTOR setting; therefore it only makes sense to use the same SPEED_FACTOR always. However, in some machines it gets set to some large value, causing the game to work slow-motion (despite getting high frames per second). This variable is stored in INSTALL.OPT, a text file with different options. I believe the "neutral"/correct setting is 0. Negative values cause the game to run faster, positive to run slower. (To test this, try some high number such as -15 or 15). _TIMETEST should be 1 if a test has been performed and SPEED_FACTOR has been set, but I didn't make sense of that option - it doesn't work as it should. There's no need to change it.

Nuk 19:11, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Ken Demarest quote[edit]

I spoke with him myself by email and he did indeed say that in regards to the development of BioForge. However, there were a few minor discrepancies in what had been written here, which I have fixed. CyberRaptor 23:27, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Oh shit! That's so cool of him. Couldn't you have found out the reference/citation for this? Where did he say this? It's the only missing reference in this article. - Phorque 12:24, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Sequel?[edit]

The game ending (in an obvious way) drops hint for its continuation... what happened, why didn't they make one? I loved this game SO much... and i have no idea why, honestly it isn't so good... but the combat scenes were wonderful, so was the gfx style.Gylfi (talk) 23:00, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Combat question[edit]

It's been since I played the game back in that year that I wonder.. what the hell is the use for the middle-right punch? It does JACK.Gylfi (talk) 23:00, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

It has no use. -jackal

Showing photograph of Launa to Dane[edit]

I believe this has not been seen yet, I thought I would share.

I've been browsing for any BioForge content for years and I believe this event has not yet been discovered.

I've discovered it just today - that you can not only look at the picture of Dane's fiancé Launa, but you can also show the picture to himself in the operation room !

However Dane does not recognize the person because, as can be read from the Mastaba's notes, during the 2nd stage of Project AFA subject's memory is completly wiped out.

This detail indeed amazed me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7n88r1CaGM -jackal —Preceding unsigned comment added by 158.195.6.7 (talk) 11:56, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

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