Talk:Chernenko (surname)
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Requested move
[edit]- The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the move request was: moved to Chernenko. Favonian (talk) 10:42, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
Chernenko (surname) → Chernenko – "Chernenko" already redirects here, and does not appear to have any meaning other than people with the surname. PatGallacher (talk) 00:59, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
- Support. Unnecessary disambiguation. Jenks24 (talk) 06:24, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
- Support per nom. ENeville (talk) 19:53, 11 April 2012 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
Move discussion in progress
[edit]There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Kalinin which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 02:00, 15 April 2017 (UTC)
Requested move 22 March 2018
[edit]- The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the move request was: page moved with the base title redirecting to Konstantin Chernenko. (closed by page mover) GeoffreyT2000 (talk) 05:14, 30 March 2018 (UTC)
Chernenko → Chernenko (disambiguation) – In the same manner that Lenin redirects to Vladimir Lenin, Stalin redirects to Joseph Stalin, Malenkov redirects to Georgy Malenkov, Khrushchev redirects to Nikita Khrushchev, Brezhnev redirects to Leonid Brezhnev, Andropov redirects to Yuri Andropov, Gorbachev redirects to Mikhail Gorbachev, Yeltsin redirects to Boris Yeltsin and Putin redirects to Vladimir Putin, so should Chernenko redirect to Konstantin Chernenko. Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 02:37, 22 March 2018 (UTC)
- tentative Oppose - So far, no objective evidence given that this is an appropriate move. Giving other examples is not evidence relevant to this case. -- Netoholic @ 08:43, 22 March 2018 (UTC)
- All of the presented examples are, indeed, relevant to this case since all of them are Chernenko's predecessors or successors. By the very definition of his leadership position, he is the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 08:51, 22 March 2018 (UTC)
- Not evidence. -- Netoholic @ 09:26, 22 March 2018 (UTC)
- Evidence. Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 13:25, 22 March 2018 (UTC)
- Evidence would include sources which refer to him exclusively/prevalently by this mononym. Evidence would be page views taht demonstrate reader expectations when coming to this page. Evidence would be internal link counts that demonstrate editor preference. Evidence does NOT include a list of other people - there could be any number or combination of factors that result in those, and indeed those could be currently handled wrong. -- Netoholic @ 05:13, 23 March 2018 (UTC)
- In this particular case, there is no need to bother. While the surname itself is not a household word, such as Dickens or Einstein or, for that matter Lenin and Stalin, the leader of the Soviet Union / Russia is by definition a primary topic and, short of a same-surname predicament, there is no "combination of factors" or putative challenges that the names of the other leaders "could be currently handled wrong" that would result in any other conclusion. Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 22:14, 24 March 2018 (UTC)
- Oppose. It is not a primary topic "by definition;" this is clear because it's not the way the pages are currently constituted, and because not all leaders of other states are disambiguated in that way (nor is Ivashko a primary topic redirect). Konstantin Chernenko was General Secretary for only a short period compared to the others you've listed. There has not been any evidence presented that he is often referred to by his surname alone, or is more likely to be who is referred to by the surname alone than others. And I find it a bit disconcerting that there was no reference to your previous request that didn't go through last year, found at Talk:Kalinin, even though there was some support for this move there. Dekimasuよ! 16:52, 27 March 2018 (UTC)
- Ivashko was acting Secretary for five days and is now barely a historical footnote, although an argument can still be made for a redirect of Ivashko to his article, because of his then-positioning at a great historical event. The three others named Ivashko, only two of whom have an article, are sports figures who barely manage tiny stubs. Chernenko, on the other hand, was Secretary for thirteen months, almost the same as the fifteen months of his predecessor, Andropov, whose redirect no one has questioned. Chernenko's election was on the front pages of every newspaper in the world, as was his death. As for the lack of reference, within the main nomination, to my multiple nomination at Kalinin, it was mentioned here, on the same day as the main nomination was posted. Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 23:40, 27 March 2018 (UTC)
- I apologize for missing the link below. Dekimasuよ! 18:07, 28 March 2018 (UTC)
- It's quite understandable. I should have made mention of the April 2017 nomination in the lead paragraph and will attend to it if any of the other names from that older nomination come up for individual reappraisals. Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 21:33, 28 March 2018 (UTC)
- I apologize for missing the link below. Dekimasuよ! 18:07, 28 March 2018 (UTC)
- Ivashko was acting Secretary for five days and is now barely a historical footnote, although an argument can still be made for a redirect of Ivashko to his article, because of his then-positioning at a great historical event. The three others named Ivashko, only two of whom have an article, are sports figures who barely manage tiny stubs. Chernenko, on the other hand, was Secretary for thirteen months, almost the same as the fifteen months of his predecessor, Andropov, whose redirect no one has questioned. Chernenko's election was on the front pages of every newspaper in the world, as was his death. As for the lack of reference, within the main nomination, to my multiple nomination at Kalinin, it was mentioned here, on the same day as the main nomination was posted. Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 23:40, 27 March 2018 (UTC)
- Oppose. It is not a primary topic "by definition;" this is clear because it's not the way the pages are currently constituted, and because not all leaders of other states are disambiguated in that way (nor is Ivashko a primary topic redirect). Konstantin Chernenko was General Secretary for only a short period compared to the others you've listed. There has not been any evidence presented that he is often referred to by his surname alone, or is more likely to be who is referred to by the surname alone than others. And I find it a bit disconcerting that there was no reference to your previous request that didn't go through last year, found at Talk:Kalinin, even though there was some support for this move there. Dekimasuよ! 16:52, 27 March 2018 (UTC)
- In this particular case, there is no need to bother. While the surname itself is not a household word, such as Dickens or Einstein or, for that matter Lenin and Stalin, the leader of the Soviet Union / Russia is by definition a primary topic and, short of a same-surname predicament, there is no "combination of factors" or putative challenges that the names of the other leaders "could be currently handled wrong" that would result in any other conclusion. Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 22:14, 24 March 2018 (UTC)
- Evidence would include sources which refer to him exclusively/prevalently by this mononym. Evidence would be page views taht demonstrate reader expectations when coming to this page. Evidence would be internal link counts that demonstrate editor preference. Evidence does NOT include a list of other people - there could be any number or combination of factors that result in those, and indeed those could be currently handled wrong. -- Netoholic @ 05:13, 23 March 2018 (UTC)
- Evidence. Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 13:25, 22 March 2018 (UTC)
- Not evidence. -- Netoholic @ 09:26, 22 March 2018 (UTC)
- All of the presented examples are, indeed, relevant to this case since all of them are Chernenko's predecessors or successors. By the very definition of his leadership position, he is the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 08:51, 22 March 2018 (UTC)
- Comment This is a set-index article rather than a disambiguation page (WP:SIANOTDAB), so the target title should be Chernenko (surname). 59.149.124.29 (talk) 09:57, 22 March 2018 (UTC)
- Support moving to Chernenko (surname). Not because of the other politicians; Konstantin Chernenko is just vastly more notable than the other name-holders. He also gets 40 times as many views as the other articles put together. —Xezbeth (talk) 13:08, 22 March 2018 (UTC)
- While the two most obvious names, Lenin and Stalin do, indeed, go to "(disambiguation)", most of the others, such as Khrushchev (surname) or Yeltsin (name), do not. Taking that into account, I am amending the nomination, per 59.149.124.29 and Xezbeth, to Chernenko → Chernenko (surname) which, it may be noted, was the form of my earlier (April 2017) mass submission of related names, including this same nomination, Chernenko → Chernenko (surname). Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 13:25, 22 March 2018 (UTC)
- Support moving to Chernenko (surname) per User:Xezbeth, i.e. WP:PRIMARYREDIRECT. (There is a village of the name with a population of 13 [sic] but no English Wikipedia article.) The current page is a partial-title match list. Only Konstantin is called simply "Chernenko". — AjaxSmack 22:51, 22 March 2018 (UTC)
- Support moving to Chernenko (surname) by primary topic argument. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 06:27, 23 March 2018 (UTC)
- Support moving to Chernenko (surname). power~enwiki (π, ν) 22:25, 27 March 2018 (UTC)
- Support. Clear primary redirect and move to Chernenko (surname). -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:53, 28 March 2018 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.