Talk:Dene

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RqImg[edit]

A demographic distribution map would be nice 132.205.44.134 23:51, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

A map of the Denendeh is around, not in the way it's used as a synonym for the NWT, but the whole sweep of Dene territory; this article needs expansion to reflect "the other Dene", as t he Athapaskan peoples in BC all consider themselves Dene; long story, I'll have to find the article about it rather than recap; if ther's not alrady I'll add a link to the Navajo Nation, as the "Southern Dene", basically....Skookum1 (talk) 04:16, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

La Loche - Dene population[edit]

I've fixed up the syntax of this recent addition and also added a fact tag, since I can't confirm the numbers. According to StatsCan, the 2006 population of La Loche is 2,340, of which 2,225 aboriginal. Looking at the Encyclopedia of Saskatchewan, La Loche is the main reserve of the Clearwater River Dene nation. However, looking at the entry for the Clearwater Dene, it shows membership of 1,418 people, with 619 on reserve.

Even adding 619 + 2,225 doesn't get close to "estimated to be over 6000 people, 95% of which are Dene". I can follow the 95% -aboriginal- figure from the town itself, but I can't work out the 6000 people, nor the Dene population (although I could easily accept that all the census-identified aboriginals identify as Dene people). Without those numbers, it's also hard to confirm the "largest population" claim, although if the 2,225 people in-town are Dene, plus the 619 on-reserve, it would indeed seem to be the largest. Anyway, needs some research! Franamax (talk) 03:20, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Additions to ethnography list[edit]

There's an article discussing the broader meaning of Dene i.e. including groups such as the Tshilhqot'in, Tahltan, Gwich'in and Dineh/Navajo which I thought I'd linked on this page; must have put it somewhere else maybe on a particular article's talkpage, I'll have to hunt for it. It discussed the southward migration of the Dineh and other peoples. Also re the lede's treanslation of "Dene", while that may be the etymology my understanding is that the conventional meaning is "people" and the components of the various tribe names ending in -t'in, -ch'in, -tan and so on are used in that context.Skookum1 (talk) 15:37, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Etymology of "Dene"[edit]

The etymology of "de-ne" as meaning "flow-mother.earth" seems to disagree with the linguistic sources I've seen. The name for the broader group of languages the Dene speak (Na-Dene) is a coinage based on words from, respectively, Eyak/Tlingit and Dene languages meaning "person/people". The citation provided here reeks of folk etymology. Cf. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Na-Dene_languages#The_name , which has a more definite citation. The fact that Navajo "dine" also means "people" (they're related languages) seems to support the source I'm (indirectly) providing rather than the one given here. Vaaarr (talk) 18:22, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

I fixed it. Be bold and you can fix things too! Benwing (talk) 09:12, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

Denendeh needed[edit]

I'm not sure if there's a Dene Nation article yet, I found on their homepage a short bit of history from Elder Mary Wilson about its origins as the Indian Brotherhood (not to be confused with the National Indian Brotherhood). Also as the title of the lead article on this publication, which is INAC's Plain Talk about the NWT. Lots of material on this available, I remember a time, around that of the Oka Crisis, when there was talking of Denendeh breaking away as a native-dominated province i.e. with those areas of the northern Prairies added to the NWT.....the term gets used in the name of various corporations and agencies and organizations. I just wanted to "drop these links" here, I don't have time to undertake this nor know the region well; only that it's notable enough and important enough within FN geocultural politics to need/deserve an article.Skookum1 (talk) 16:36, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

The bluelink in the subject header is a redirect to Northwest Territories. True enough there's a case for that in the absence of a proper article, but Denendeh is not just the Northwest Territories.Skookum1 (talk) 16:38, 18 May 2013 (UTC)
This looks like an interesting read.Skookum1 (talk) 16:40, 18 May 2013 (UTC)
  • The Denendeh is Dene Nation (= Gwich'in, Sahtu/North Slavey, Dene Thaʼ/South Slavey, Tłı̨chǫ, and Denesuline) area in Northwest Territories. (< Who are the Dene? and Dene Nation) --Kmoksy (talk) 17:20, 18 May 2013 (UTC)
    • Dene Nation is the government, Dene refers to the whole of Dene territory; one name is the institution, the other is for their demesne...which extends south of the 60th Parallel beyond the NWT. I'm talking about an article on the geographic entity, not the governmental organization. There's a parallel in whatever name the Anishinaabe have for their territory's name, and I think it has an article....Skookum1 (talk) 17:44, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

All three have different meanings. Denendeh is the Dene word meaning "Land of the People" and here. According to the Dene Nation, a political organisation according to the second link I gave, Denendeh is the Northwest Territories. It's unclear though how much of the NWT is covered by Denendeh and it may include part of Manitoba. In part this is due to there being several different settlement regions.

Also this article states there are five main Dene groups, Chipewyan people (Akaitcho Territory Government), Tłı̨chǫ (Tlicho Government), Yellowknives (Akaitcho Territory Government), Slavey people (Dehcho First Nations) and the Sahtu people (Sahtu Dene Council). However, the Slavey article says the group in the NWT are Sahtu Dene. Also the Dene#Ethnography section says that the Gwich'in people consider themselves Dene but is not "what the term "Dene" usually refers to in modern usage".

The Dene Nation list of chiefs and councils also gives five groups. The Gwich'in (http://www.gwichin.nt.ca/), Sahtu (http://www.sahtu.ca/), Dehco (http://www.dehchofirstnations.com/), Tlicho (http://www.tlicho.ca/) and Akaitcho (http://www.tlicho.ca/). The last group include Tadoule Lake, Manitoba and given the fact that it is just southeast of the Four Corners (Canada), then Denendeh may also include part of Saskatchewan.

So there should be three different articles here. By the way, Kmoksy the GNWT link does not seem to work for me. CambridgeBayWeather (talk) 23:24, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

Yes, this (Who are the Dene?) is dead link. The live link: (“A Dene Way of Life” / Chapter One: Who are the Dene?)
Region (All of these regions make up what is known as Denendeh which means "the Creator's Spirit flows through this Land".) Dene Language Group
Mackenzie Delta Region Gwich'in
Sahtu Region North Slavey (Sahtu)
Dehcho Region South Slavey (Dene Thaʼ)
South Slave Region Chipewyan (Denesuline and Yellowknives = Akaitcho)
North Slave Region Dogrib (Tłı̨chǫ)

--Kmoksy (talk) 10:15, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Denendeh and Dene are also used by the Chipewyan people in the northern Prairie Provinces; you're citing a listing that emerged after the equation NWT=Denendeh came about; when I first saw an article on it, it had a map, showing those areas in "Denendeh", which also doesn't include the Inuvaluit areas of the NWT. It was, as I recall, in the Vancouver Sun, but all their online archives were ordered destroyed by Izzy Asper when he took over CanWestGlobal in 1993 so we won't find it online, other than by going to UBC Special Collections or the VPL and locating the hard copy....I did see it in a big writeup about the "greater Dene" of all of North America, and there it was used to mean all Dene lands, i.e. the Tahltan, Kaska, Sekani, Dakelh, Beaver etc and the Yukon peoples and the Dineh/Navajo. I think the article was by Stephen Hume but I'll write him and ask, if he didn't write it he may know who did and where.Skookum1 (talk) 10:25, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
From the Canadian Encyclopedia entry "Dene Nation" - "The Dene Nation have historically inhabited central and northwestern Canada throughout the Mackenzie Delta, west into Alaska, east into Nunavut and south into the prairies. Their homeland is referred to as Denendeh, meaning "the Creator's Spirit flows through this Land."".Skookum1 (talk) 10:30, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
this I guess explains why I don't recall any of BC on that map: "The thirty-five Chiefs of Denendeh, stretching from northern Alberta through the entire Northwest Territories, passed a resolution supporting British Columbia's Yinka Deneerent(a completely different Carrier nation)" from here. The Yinka Dene Alliance is a group of Dakelh bands; what it means I don't know but "Deneerent" seems to be their local version of the Denendeh name in Dakelh.Skookum1 (talk) 10:55, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
Yes, the Tlingit (the piece Na in the Na-Dene) and Eyak are not Dene. The piece Dene in the Na-Dene is -broad sense- are all Athabascans. On the Turkish Wikipedia: tr:Alaska Atabaskları (Alaskan Athabascans), tr:Kanada Atabaskları (Canadian Athabascans), tr:Yukon Atabaskları (Yukon Athabascans), tr:Britanya Kolumbiyası Atabaskları (British Columbian Athabascans), tr:Doğu Atabaskları or tr:Deneler (Eastern Athabascans or Denes; this page). --Kmoksy (talk) 11:59, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
      • Re Denendeh, our job is not to define it, but to give account of its different mentions and possible meanings; we can't decide which one is the "right" one, and now that the Dene Nation (consisting of the bands/groups within it only) defines it as (roughly) equivalent to the NWT is only one of those meanings; even theirs includes Laloche, which is not in the NWT. But that broader meaning I've mentioned, which predates that, and its variants like the Yinka Dene term and the macro one including the Dineh and Apache, need all to be mentioned....citing them is the tricky part. As for the Turkish articles, consensus or understanding among natives I know is that the divisions by provincial/state/national boundaries are irrelevant to them; those Athabaskans in Yukon have family/cousins in BC and Alaska; in BC's case the Kaska Dene come immediately to mind as spanning the BC-YT boundary, just as do the Inland Tlinkit. I encourage you within Turkish Wikipedia to consider articles on each tribe/people, or hope that there are indeed articles already at least on the more important or larger groups like the Dakelh. Turkish is a beautiful language, I had the pleasure of learning some and pondered living in Istanbul for a while, by the way.....maybe someday. The issue of coordinating all Dene coverage in Wikipedia is a complex one and may take something like {{Anishinaabe}} to coordinate (that's a directory template from that WikiProject, not the WikiProject itself).Skookum1 (talk) 18:20, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Dene and Denedeh[edit]

My impression of the meaning of denedeh is that it simply means my homeland or my country (the present or historical territory of a group of Dene). The upper Churchill River would be the denedeh (homeland) of the Dene population living there. The eastern area of Lake Athabasca would be another and so on. Denedeh can be also be used to mean the "homeland" of all Dene (which would include Dene Metis and Dene First Nations)......Kayoty 18:55, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

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