Talk:Ed Decker

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Ed Decker article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.

If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.

Biography

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles

Religion: Interfaith Low‑importance

	Religion portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Religion, a project to improve Wikipedia's articles on Religion-related subjects. Please participate by editing the article, and help us assess and improve articles to good and 1.0 standards, or visit the wikiproject page for more details.ReligionWikipedia:WikiProject ReligionTemplate:WikiProject ReligionReligion articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is within the scope of Interfaith work group, a work group which is currently considered to be inactive.

Latter Day Saint movement Low‑importance

	Latter Day Saint movement portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Latter Day Saint movement, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Mormonism and the Latter Day Saint movement on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Latter Day Saint movementWikipedia:WikiProject Latter Day Saint movementTemplate:WikiProject Latter Day Saint movementLatter Day Saint movement articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Alternative Views Mid‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Alternative views, a collaborative effort to improve Wikipedia's coverage of significant alternative views in every field, from the sciences to the humanities. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion.Alternative ViewsWikipedia:WikiProject Alternative ViewsTemplate:WikiProject Alternative ViewsAlternative Views articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

The following Wikipedia contributor may be personally or professionally connected to the subject of this article. Relevant policies and guidelines may include conflict of interest, autobiography, and neutral point of view.

Edecker@nwlink.com (talk · contribs) / Decker, Ed This user has contributed to the article.

Sources

I took out the divorce info but it can be re-added onece a source is given. (See NPOV_tutorial#Accusations) Also created a section for criticism so it can all go in once place. Becca77^Talk/_Email 15:40, 17 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Good job in the re-write, Tobeyjaggle. It is very neutral. Becca77^Talk/_Email 21:40, 18 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

This article is in need of some attention. It's a bit messy and some sources are not referenced well/at all. The external links section appears to contain a number of links to similar ministries that don't appear to have a notable connection to the subject of the article. -Porlob 16:21, 12 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Criticism

Some criticism is good, but this article seems exceptional critical -- to the point of not being WP:NPOV. I think this needs to be worked on quite a bit.

--RucasHost 13:01, 9 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This is Ed Decker, the one being falsely accused of things in this article.. hard to correct when your enemies know how to work the web against you.. I will make corrections and hope they stay in.. edecker@nwlink.com July 30, 2008

I have removed material from this article that does not comply with our policy on the biographies of living persons. Biographical material must always be referenced from reliable sources, especially negative material. Negative material that does not comply with that must be immediately removed. Note that the removal does not imply that the information is either true or false.

Please do not reinsert this material unless you can provide reliable citations, and can ensure it is written in a neutral tone. Please review the relevant policies before editing in this regard. Editors should note that failure to follow this policy may result in the removal of editing privileges.--Doc^g 00:44, 4 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

POV

This article must adhere to the policy on biographies of living persons. Controversial material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately, especially if potentially libellous.

It is my assertion that the comments and information concerning Ed Decker on individual lds church members websites not be considered a "reliable" source. If one wanted to state information about Ed Decker commiting adultry one would need information directly from the church or scanned information from the divorce decree. Ed's excommunication letter mentions nothing on adultry and Ed's statements are more in line with the excommunication letter than with what the two "sources" state otherwise. Also the sentence reads as though Ed Decker quit the church because of adultry, this is also not true according to the facts. The following needs to be sourced or removed. 1. Need to have official records from the LDS church showing if Ed Decker ever was counciled or disciplined for commiting adultry. 2. Official records (Church, government, verifiable statement of the former Mrs Decker) that Ed commited adultry.

If these sources do not exsist or can not be found then I will revert the changes and request that the page be locked. IowaRussell (talk) 04:36, 16 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

http://www.angelfire.com/ga/kevgram/Ed.html is not a reliable source IowaRussell (talk) 09:23, 20 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Can anyone tell me why http://www.angelfire.com/ga/kevgram/Ed.html as a source has not been removed? Let's keep things cleaned up here! I'm removing it unless someone can prove me otherwise. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.107.145.71 (talk) 00:43, 16 February 2009 (UTC) Also, the other two sources - one from Geocities and the other from ldsinformationstore - do not qualify as reliable sources. Removed. This last part of the article on Criticism needs rewritten due to large amounts of POV bias. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.107.145.71 (talk) 00:49, 16 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Text removed

The following text was removed by an administrator and should not be re-added unless supported with reliable citations.

Removed text

Biography

Early life and dissent from the LDS Church

Decker converted to the LDS Church at the age of 20, and was ordained to the Melchizedek Priesthood. He and his wife Phillis had five children. However, according to Phillis' written history of the events, Ed had many affairs that scattered all throughout their relationship—the most damaging with her best friend. It was so bad that he even "left the hospital after she had his baby to be with his girlfriend".

Many times his wife would consult with her LDS Church leaders about his affairs. In speaking with their leaders, "Ed would repent and apologize and claim he would never do it again", even though it continued. So his wife and the Church would forgive him. Finally Ed left Phillis for good with their 5 kids (ages 4,5,7,9, and 11) and demanded a divorce settlement in his favor which she agreed to, otherwise he would "disappear and she would have to raise the children herself without ANY help from him."^{[citation needed]} Later he gained custody of the children. According to his wife's legal Divorce Decree "...the defendant, John [Edward] Decker, Jr. not regarding his marriage vows and obligations, has, since his marriage to the plaintiff, in this manner has been guilty of extreme and repeated cruelty towards the plaintiff, in that he on many occasions had the company and companionship of other women."^[1]

Ed has said that he divorced Phyllis, not the other way around, after a number of attempts, through the church, to correct a marriage in trouble. Part of the problem was Phyllis's extramarital affairs, not his. The first was with a Mormon Missionary, Elder Smith from Utah.^{[citation needed]} That caused Smith to be removed from the mission field when Ed and another elder found them in bed together when Ed was filling in for the missionary who was supposed to be sick that day. Another involved the assistant manager of a local grocery chain that resulted in a pregnancy. Another of many more involved a neighbor in Illinois. Ed happened to walk in while the man's wife was screaming at Phyllis to leave her husband alone. Phyllis is now on her third marriage.^{[citation needed]} Decker was excommunicated from the LDS Church and divorced his wife. According to his wife's account, "it was a series of affairs Ed had that led to our divorce".^{[citation needed]}

In 1976, Ed was excommunicated from the LDS Church. Ed's excommunication documents can be seen at http://www.saintsalive.com/mormonism/ed-leaves-church.htm or at Utah State University Special Collections Library {#210] at Logan, Utah where all of Ed's church records are on file.

A critic of the Church and a new faith

In describing his "conversion" to evangelical Christianity, Decker reports that a crisis in his life showed him the "One-Sided Biblical Jesus" and changed his life forever ^[2]. Shortly after, Decker founded Saints Alive in Jesus, a ministry that actively challenges the Latter-day Saint doctrine. Through the Saints Alive Ministry, Decker is active as a public speaker and evangelist. He also volunteers as a pastor at a large evangelical church in Kirkland, Washington.

Best regards —Eustress ^talk 00:07, 21 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

References

Complaint about article from Ed Decker

Text moved from article page:

For the record.

I was neither divorced or excommunicated for adultery. I divorced my former wife, Phyllis Ray Decker Montanari Danielson. I did so after extensive counseling with the Bishop and our Stake President and their recommendation that I do so.

I remained an active Mormon for a full 7 years after the divorce and was finally excommunicated in Bellevue, WA in 1976 AFTER I requested that my name be removed from the records of the church…

The original documents from my excommunication are on file at Utah State University Special Collections Library : Collection #210, J. Edward Decker Collection, where most of all the research, books, videos, audio records, correspondence, files, etc are on file for researchers to use.

That document clearly shows their reluctance to excommunicate me and that it was”[my] decision and mine alone.

These two facts clearly show that the Wikipedia posting on your website is false and slanderous.

Text that caused the stir

Public court records from Ed Decker's first marriage state his first wife divorced him on ground of multiple adultery and mental and emotional cruelty. This is in the public divorce records of the Court along with the affidavits. The divorce was granted on those grounds.^[1]

I just opened an ANI thread over it [1] This mormon critic appears to been the subject of a a tract from [2] i have removed it for now since the source is dubious at best hopefully the ANI will work its work Weaponbb7 (talk) 19:13, 6 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

@Ed Decker: I appreciate how you must feel upon seeing inaccurate or poorly sourced information in your biography. In the future please point out any such inaccuracies here on the talk page instead of in the article text itself. Wikipedia is very concerned that our biographies of living persons be accurate and not contain unverified information and I assure your concerns will be taken seriously, but it is not appropriate for you to edit an article about yourself as you have an insurmountable conflict of interest on the subject. Beeblebrox (talk) 19:28, 6 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Brown, R. L. & Brown, R. (1982) They Lie In Wait To Deceive volume 4. Mesa, Ariz. : Brownsworth Pub

Criticism section

Why do we have a criticism section in this article? It's my understanding that criticism should be integrated into the article, not called out in its own section. Yworo (talk) 02:57, 7 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Saints Alive in Jesus

Why isn't his "Saints Alive in Jesus" organization directly mentioned in the article? -- 208.81.184.4 (talk) 20:10, 28 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Written like advertisement

Parts of the article seem like an advertisement for books or like a news release. Specifically, the sections "Counterculture apologetics" and "Works".

There are many dead links and much self-referencing. --Yammie2009 (talk) 22:53, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to one external link on Ed Decker. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

Added archive https://web.archive.org/20060202094737/http://www.eddecker.com:80/bookshelf.html to http://www.eddecker.com/bookshelf.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—^{cyberbot II}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 17:09, 13 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Ed Decker. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060907013509/http://ourworld.cs.com/mikegriffith1/id114.htm to http://ourworld.cs.com/mikegriffith1/id114.htm

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 02:17, 17 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Ed Decker. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20051025165428/http://c.faculty.umkc.edu/cowande/ccp/decker.htm to http://c.faculty.umkc.edu/cowande/ccp/decker.htm

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 14:55, 15 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

BLP issues

The ostensible subject of the article just got blocked, but I do agree with this edit. Drmies (talk) 23:46, 14 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

[1] ttp://www.saintsalive.com/who.html

[2] Saints Alive In Jesus & Ed Decker - Who Are We?

[3] Brown, R. L. & Brown, R. (1982) They Lie In Wait To Deceive volume 4. Mesa, Ariz. : Brownsworth Pub

[1]

[2]

[1]