Talk:Erik Satie

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Section removed from article[edit]

I have removed the following unencyclopedic section. I'm placing it in a subpage so as not to clutter this Talk page. It's possible some information could be culled from it to add to the article, but as is, it's not within Wikipedia guidelines:


=="Petit dictionnaire d'idées reçues" (short dictionary of preconceived ideas)==

"Idée reçue" is a play on words; in French it is the normal term for "prejudice", but Satie used it as the non-material equivalent of found objects (as in readymades) — for example, when he incorporated odd bits of music by Saint-Saëns and Ambroise Thomas in his furniture music. This section treats some popular (mis)conceptions regarding Satie and his music:

Satie and furniture music: not all of Satie's music is furniture music. In the strict sense the term applies only to five of his compositions, which he wrote in 1917, 1920, and 1923. For the first public performance of furniture music see Entr'acte.

Satie as precursor: the only "precursor" discussion Satie was involved in during his lifetime was whether or not he was a precursor of Claude Debussy, but many would follow. Over the years Satie would be described as a precursor of movements and styles as varied as Impressionism, neo-classicism, Dada, Surrealism, atonalism, minimalism, conceptual art, the Theatre of the Absurd, muzak, ambient music, multimedia art, etc., and as taking the first steps towards techniques such as prepared piano and music-to-film synchronisation. Further, Satie became one of the first musicians to perform a cameo appearance — he was in a 1924 film by René Clair (see: a sample of the film (rm format) and the Entr'acte article).

All by himself Satie appears to have been the precursor to half of the avant-garde movements of the 20th century. Many of these "precursorisms" are possibly based on quite superficial resemblances only, while, on the other hand, he undeniably inspired and influenced many later artists, and their ideas. According to Milhaud, Satie had "prophesied the major movements in classical music to appear over the next fifty years within his own body of work." There is a website exploring that theory in detail: Erik Satie's Crystal Ball

Satie as humorist: many would be surprised to know how many of Satie's seemingly humorous compositions were at heart taken very seriously by him. When he forbade commentaries written in his partitions to be read aloud, he probably saw this himself as a means to safeguard the seriousness of his intentions. When, at the first public performance of Socrate, there was laughter, he felt hurt. Many other examples of his serious attitude can be found, but there's no doubt that Satie was a witty person, certainly not without many humorous idiosyncrasies.

Satie and compositions in three parts: although many of his compositions (e.g., most of the pre-war piano pieces) were indeed in three parts, there is no general rule in this respect. After his death, publishers would force more of them into an artificial three-part structure; Satie had actually already made a joke of such proceedings with his seven-part Trois Morceaux en forme de poire, which is French for "Three Pieces in the Shape of a Pear."

Satie and (lack of) money: although Satie certainly knew periods of dire poverty, and was perhaps a little uncontrollable in his spending, in long periods of his life he had few worries in this sense. Although maybe not having much money in his pockets, he was (certainly from the second decade of the new century) often invited to expensive restaurants and to all sort of events, and was given financial help, by all sorts of people.

Satie as an opponent of other musical styles. The musical styles Satie opposed were allegedly numerous: Wagnerism, Romanticism (Saint-Saëns, Franck, etc.), Impressionism (Debussy and Ravel), Expressionism (later Ravel), Slavism (Stravinsky), post-Wagnerism (Schoenberg), cabaret music, etc. Apart from some animosities on the personal level (which can be seen as symptomatic of most adherents of avant-garde movements of those days), Satie's ideas on other music of his time generally had more subtlety; for example, about César Franck he could not be brought to write critically, but would avoid the issue with jokes ("Franck's music shows surprisingly much Franckism; Some even say César Frank was lazy, which is not a commendable property in a hard working man"). Perhaps the same can be said as above regarding "Satie as precursor": there is much empty discussion — for example, the debate with Debussy appears to have been over whether or not Satie was a precursor of Impressionism, which would not have made much sense if he had been opposed to Impressionism as such.

Satie and boredom. Satie often consciously disregarded the conception of development found in the German tradition (Beethoven, Schubert, Schumann, Brahms). Satie's compositions tend to be very short; a typical movement of a Satie composition takes less than two minutes to play, and compositions with more than five movements are exceptional. Even his larger-scale works conforming to the genres known in his time would be two to five times shorter than the usual duration of such compositions (Socrate, a secular oratorio — or "symphonic drama" — lasting about half an hour, is the longest). In general, Satie thought it to be a great fault for a composer to bore his audience in any way. There are eight of his compositions that use repetition as a compositional technique, more than doubling the total duration:

  • Vexations: with 840 repetitions of the musical motif (and many more of the melody of the bass), this is definitely the longest single-movement work with a defined number of repetitions (note that, without the repetitions, the actual music takes less than two minutes to play). No explanation by Satie survives regarding the exceptional length of the piece. If excluding the Tango mentioned in the next point, performing the Vexations takes longer than all his other music played in sequence.
  • For Le Tango ("The Tango"), a rather catchy tune from Sports et divertissements, Satie indicates in the score perpétuel (i.e. something like a perpetuum mobile, which in French is "mouvement perpétuel"). There is little indication how Satie understood this "perpetual", apart that at the premiere, at least assisted by Satie, there was obviously nothing repeated ad infinitum, taken literally. When performed for a recording there is seldom more than one repeat of this part of the composition, making it one of the shortest tangos ever, something like a Minute Tango.
  • Five pieces of furniture music, which were intended as "background" music with no number of repeats specified. The circumstances in which such music was performed by Satie himself indicate, however, that the total playing times would be intended to be the usual 'intermission' time of a stage production (see Entr'acte). While the public was not expected to be silent, these compositions can hardly be seen as an experiment in boredom.
  • His music for the film Entr'acte has ten repeat zones in order to synchronise with the twenty-minute film (which has a very varied plot, so not much boredom is to be found there either).

Satie and sexuality: much has been said[by whom?] about Satie's sexuality. In fact, apart from the short-lived, and highly "idealised", Valadon period, Satie's behaviour appeared more or less asexual: he tended to be dismissive when the topic of sexuality came up.[citation needed]


Softlavender (talk) 13:50, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

Can you explain what "unencyclopedic" means?
I had an 2007 version of wikipedia in a wikitaxi and was surprised to see how this Satie entry become much less interesting over the years.
I think this section you removed was full of hints that may well be an enriching part of a "biography".
How "encyclopedic" can you be when you're writing about an eccentric? IIIIIIIII (talk) 18:00, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

List removed from article[edit]

I've removed the following from the article -- this is from the 1919–1925 section. Information from it may be placed into the article within the appropriate section or paragraph, but not as bulleted items or a list or one-sentence paragraphs:


Other work and episodes in this last period of Satie's life:

  • Since 1911 he had been on friendly terms with Igor Stravinsky, about whom he would later write articles.
  • Le piège de Méduse (1913) had a unique position in Satie's oeuvre, as it was a stage work conceived and composed seemingly without any collaboration with other artists.
  • Sports et divertissements was a kind of multi-media project, in which Satie provided piano music to drawings made by Charles Martin. The work was composed in 1914, but not published or performed until the early 1920s. The individual pieces are characteristic Satie "miniatures": in all, there are twenty pieces - none over two minutes in length, and some as short as 15 seconds.
  • He got in trouble over an insulting postcard he had written to one of his critics shortly after the premiere of Parade; he was condemned to a week of imprisonment, but was finally released as a result of the (financial) intercession of Winnaretta Singer, Princess Edmond de Polignac.
  • Singer, who had learnt Ancient Greek when she was over 50, had commissioned a work on Socrates in October 1916; this would become his Socrate, which he presented early in 1918 to the Princess.
  • From 1917 Satie wrote five pieces of furniture music ("Musique d'ameublement") for different occasions.
  • From 1920, he was on friendly terms with the circles around Gertrude Stein, amongst others, leading to the publication of some of his articles in Vanity Fair (commissioned by Sibyl Harris).
  • Some works would originate under the patronage of the count Etienne de Beaumont, from 1922 onwards:
    • La statue retrouvée (or "Divertissement"): another Satie-Cocteau-Picasso-Massine collaboration.
    • Ludions: a setting of nonsense rhyme by Léon-Paul Fargue
    • Mercure: the subtitle of this piece ("Poses plastiques") suggests it might have been intended rather as an emulation of the tableau vivant genre than as an actual ballet, the "tableaux" being cubist, by Picasso (and Massine).
  • During his final years Satie travelled; for example, in 1924 to Belgium, invited by Paul Collaer, and to Monte Carlo for the premiere of a work on which he had collaborated.

Softlavender (talk) 14:02, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

This disruptive delete (that made way for an accumulation of cruft, see below) has been undone: there's no reason why a transformation from list information to prose can't be performed in mainspace. --Francis Schonken (talk) 12:52, 8 September 2017 (UTC)

Downgrading this to a Start class for now[edit]

Due to the fact that so much of the article has been removed (see previous two headers), I've downgraded this article to Start class. A lot of the material from the removed sections can be reintroduced into the article, but that needs to be done in encyclopedic and organized sections and headings, not as random bits of disassociated stuff. Softlavender (talk) 16:09, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

Better photo?[edit]

Must be a better photo to use.

Such as this one: http://imgur.com/5z97tSI CrocodilesAreForWimps (talk) 16:18, 16 December 2013 (UTC)

External links modified[edit]

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IMDb[edit]

User:Ibodile added {{IMDb name}} (Erik Satie on IMDb) to the external links. User:Classicalfan626 then removed it with the edit summary "Wikipedia is not a link repository. Of what use(s) is IMDb for a classical composer? Please revert if you can provide a valid reason." I think that IMDb link provides a succinct list of Satie's music in films and complies with WP:EL; it should be restored (and considered as a standard link for all composers). -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 03:56, 12 August 2016 (UTC)

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Moved here from mainspace[edit]


==Arrangements in popular music==
===Gymnopédies===
  • In 1963, The Fire Within (French: Le Feu follet), one of Louis Malle's early films, used Gymnopédie No. 1 and Gnossienne Nos. 1, 2 and 3 to score the film.
  • In 1968, Blood, Sweat & Tears released their eponymous second album, which included an adaptation of Gymnopédie No. 1 (arranged by Dick Halligan) which they titled as Variations on a Theme by Erik Satie (First and Second Movements). The first movement is a straightforward elaboration of the basic theme using flutes, an acoustic guitar and a triangle. The second is a far more abstract variation using only brass instruments. In 1969, Halligan received a Grammy Award for Best Instrumental Performance for the piece.
  • In 1974, the jazz flutist Hubert Laws recorded an arrangement by Bob James of the Gymnopédie No. 1 in his In the Beginning double album. The band featured keyboardist Bob James, guitarist Gene Bertoncini, bassist Ron Carter, drummer Steve Gadd, three strings, and Hubert's brother Ronnie Laws on tenor sax.
  • In 1979 the band Sky included a version of Gymnopédie No. 1, which was arranged by John Williams, on the band's first album Sky.
  • In 1980, Gary Numan's single "We Are Glass" featured Gymnopédie No. 1 on the B-side.
  • Gymnopédie No. 1 is featured in the 1981 film My Dinner with Andre, directed by Louis Malle (the episode 'Critical Film Studies' of the NBC show Community – the episode itself an homage to My Dinner with Andre – also features Gymnopédie No. 1).
  • In 1990, Movement 98's (Paul Oakenfold and Steve Osborne) single "Joy and Heartbreak" used the opening phrase of Trois Gymnopédies as the intro and instrumental.
  • The 1993 John Tesh album Winter Song contains an arrangement of Gymnopédie No. 1 entitled Seabury Road.
  • Janet Jackson released the single "Someone to Call My Lover" in 2001 from her seventh studio album, All for You. The chorus of the song includes a loop of Gymnopédie No. 1 played in 4/4 time instead of the original 3/4. Jackson had loved the Gymnopédie since childhood and wanted to incorporate its theme into one of her own songs.
  • The English electronic duo Isan recorded versions of the Trois Gymnopédies for a 2006 7-inch single, "Trois Gymnopédies" on the Morr Music record label.
  • The 2001 movie The Royal Tenenbaums features an arrangement of the Gymnopédie No. 1.
  • The 2006 video game Mother 3 features an arrangement of the Gymnopédie No. 1 as background music, titled "Leder's Gymnopédie".
  • The 2008 documentary film Man on Wire features both Gymnopédie No. 1 and Gnossienne No. 1.
  • The 2009 independent film Mr. Nobody features both Gymnopédie No. 3 and Gnossienne No. 3.[1]
  • Gymnopédie No. 2 has been used in the original soundtrack of 2010 Japanese animated film The Disappearance of Haruhi Suzumiya by Kyoto Animation studio. The full Gymnopédies as well as Gnossiennes are included in the 2nd CD of this OST.
  • In 2012, Gymnopédie No. 1 was used in the video for Lana Del Rey's song "Carmen"
  • An arrangement of Gymnopédie No. 1 was featured on Anamanaguchi's 2013 album, Endless Fantasy.
  • In 2013, Flying Lotus sampled Gymnopédie No. 1 in "Puppet Talk".
===Gnossiennes===
  • In 1963, The Fire Within (French: Le Feu follet), one of Louis Malle's early films, used Gymnopédie No. 1 and Gnossienne Nos. 1, 2 and 3 to score the film.
  • Gnossiennes #4 & #5 appear in the 1979 film Being There.[2]
  • The 1989 film Violent Cop features Gnossienne No.1.
  • In 1994, Malcolm McLaren arranged Gnossienne Nos. 3 and 4 in his concept album Paris.
  • In 1995, Folk Implosion used a sample of Gnossienne No. 1 in the song 'Wet Stuff', which was part of the soundtrack of "Kids", a movie by Larry Clark
  • In 1996, the Swedish film Vinterviken [3] featured Gnossienne No. 1 performed by Roland Pöntinen.
  • The 2000 film Chocolat features Gnossiennes 1, 2, and 3.[4]
  • The 2002 film About Schmidt features Gnossienne no. 4 – Lent.
  • Gnossienne No. 1 is used in the 2003 episode "Five Little Pigs" of Agatha Christie's Poirot.
  • The 2005 movie Revolver features Gnossienne No. 1 in the ending credits.
  • The 2006 movie The Painted Veil features Gnossienne No. 1 throughout the film.
  • The 2008 documentary film Man on Wire features both Gymnopédie No. 1 and Gnossienne No. 1.
  • In 2011, singer-songwriter Tori Amos released an album entitled Night of Hunters, where her song "Battle of Trees" is a variation on Gnossienne No. 1.
  • Gnossienne No. 1 was used in the 2011 film Hugo.
  • In 2011, James Blake used Gnossienne No. 5 as the opening track of his BBC Radio 1 Essential Mix.[5]
  • In the 2014 movie The November Man, actress Olga Kurylenko plays Gnossienne No. 3.
  • The 2015 erotic drama film Love features both Gymnopédie No. 1 and Gnossienne No. 1. [6]
  • Gnossienne No. 1 was used in TV series Mr. Robot's Season 2 Episode 10 opening scene.
  • In 2017, rapper G Eazy and DJ Carnage used a sample of Gnossienne No. 1 for the first single of the Step Brothers album, "Guala" Featuring Bay Area rapper Thirty Rack.
===Others===
  • In 1972, Satie was fashioned for the Moog synthesizer as "The Electronic Spirit of Erik Satie," performed with the Camarata Contemporary Chamber Orchestra. The same orchestra had created another Satie interpretation called "The Velvet Gentleman" in 1970.
  • In 1983, Dave Greenfield and Jean-Jacques Burnel of UK band The Stranglers, recorded "Trois Pédophiles pour Eric Sabyr" in homage to Satie. An instrumental piece, it was the first track on the B-side of their album Fire & Water (Ecoutez Vos Murs).
  • In 1987, electronic music composer Mitar Subotić on his debut album Disillusioned!, released under the pseudonym Rex Ilusivii, recorded an instrumental track "Thanx Mr. Rorschach – Ambijenti na muziku Erika Satija" (Thanx Mr. Rorschach – Ambient to the music by Erik Satie), as a kind of a musical Rorschach test to the music by Satie.[7]
  • In 1989, the Vienna Art Orchestra (directed by Mathias Rüegg) released The Minimalism of Eric Satie, a 2-LP set on the Swiss HatART label that included "reflections" on a number of Satie's works, notably three performances of Vexations in various instrumental/vocal combinations.
  • In 1997, the Canadian soprano Patricia O'Callaghan included songs by Satie on her debut solo album Youkali and still performs them as part of her cabaret act.
  • In 1999, electronic music act Plaid's CD Restproof Clockwork included a track called "Tearisci" which is an uncredited version of Satie's "Pièces Froides, No. 2: Danses De Travers: III. Encore".
  • In 2000, ex-Genesis guitarist Steve Hackett released the album Sketches of Satie, performing Satie's works on acoustic guitar, with contributions by his brother John on flute.
  • In 2001, the Josh G. Abrahams Radio Remix of "Come What May" from the film Moulin Rouge! sampled Satie's "Petit prélude à la journée" from Enfantillages pittoresques prominently throughout the single.[8]
  • Ogive Number 2 (incorrectly labelled Ogive Number 1) was re-recorded electronically by William Orbit on his album Pieces in a Modern Style.

References

  1. ^ "Erik Satie". IMDb. Retrieved 1 August 2017. 
  2. ^ "Being There (1979) – Soundtracks". IMDb.com. Retrieved 2017-08-01. 
  3. ^ "Vinterviken (1996)". IMDb.com. Retrieved 1 August 2017. 
  4. ^ "Chocolat (2000) – Soundtracks". IMDb.com. Retrieved 2017-08-01. 
  5. ^ "James Blake (Essential mix 17-09-2011)". SoundCloud. 
  6. ^ "Love (2015)". IMDb.com. Retrieved 1 August 2017. 
  7. ^ "Images for Rex Ilusivii – Disillusioned!". Discogs.com. Retrieved 2012-03-03. 
  8. ^ Bassanese, Paola. "Classical Music Made into Pop Music: Sampling and Homages". Itcher Magazine. Retrieved 9 March 2014. 

This is entirely about compositions, not about the composer — even as a reception topic it is completely unbalanced and doesn't give the faintest idea why and how the composer's music became widely accepted. --Francis Schonken (talk) 12:18, 8 September 2017 (UTC)

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