Talk:Ertuğrul Bey (fictional character)

Publishing the article

Limorina, I think this article might be ready to publish now, maybe with a message about expansion in the ‘reception’ and ‘production’ sections. I think an awards table would be a good idea for the ‘reception’ section. Any thoughts? IronManCap (talk) 19:45, 24 January 2021 (UTC)

IronManCap, the article will be deleted without a "reception" and "production" section because it's pure fiction. Those sections are really important. I'm a bit busy so I'll need your help finding sources and information. The awards table idea is good, we should go with that. Limorina (talk! ◾ contribs) 19:49, 24 January 2021 (UTC)

In the "Historical accuracy" section, I think I may find a lot of other Turkish sources, the blogpost isn't classed as "reliable".--Limorina (talk! ◾ contribs) 20:14, 24 January 2021 (UTC)

IronManCap, I submitted this article for review instead of moving it myself because I think we should have a little bit of time to add more information. Limorina (talk! ◾ contribs) 13:52, 2 February 2021 (UTC)

I think this article is ready to be moved into the mainspace now, Limorina. IronManCap (talk) 10:41, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

IronManCap, no harm with a little patience, I think the "Historical accuracy" section needs some improvement. When a reviewer has time, they'll move it. To speed up the process I added the relevant WikiProjects to the draft. In the meantime, we could improve the article, I've heard there's an Ertugrul-look-alike in Pakistan? That can be added, and also, there are a lot of sources (in English) which compare the show with history. Limorina (talk! ◾ contribs) 10:52, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

Limorina, I think the Ertuğrul lookalike is fairly trivial, but there is very little chance, in my opinion, that this could be flagged for deletion as an article. I’m happy to wait for some improvement, however. IronManCap (talk) 10:55, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

IronManCap, the article is very unlikely to be deleted, I even checked the copyvio report. You are right about the lookalike, I guess, my point is that the draft can still be improved a lot with all the information out there. Limorina (talk! ◾ contribs) 11:02, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

Limorina, I guess I was trying to make the point that this could still be improved as an article, but its content is mostly ready for publishing. IronManCap (talk) 11:10, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

IronManCap, you can always find a reviewer in the page reviewers cat. Limorina (talk! ◾ contribs) 11:25, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

Limorina, I’ve published the article now as it does seem ready for the mainspace. Of course, it could still be improved, but I think it is ready to be an article. We could discuss moving it back to a draft if you wish on the talk page. IronManCap (talk) 13:02, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

Selcan Hatun

I gave a response in my edit summary, about the other thing (other articles have links to historical people), that isn't quite true. MCU isn't based on history and you use that as an example, so I really don't know where you got that from, IronManCap. History-based TV series (like Rome (TV series), use redirects. Limorina (talk! ◾ contribs) 12:30, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

:In that case, I think it makes more sense if all the links are changed to the fictional characters. If we do this, should we link the French article for Selcan, or redirect to her character description, @Limorina:? IronManCap (talk) 18:58, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

It will be a bit too hard to do it right now, we can consider doing that after this draft is published, IronManCap. The French article on Selcan is a copy of the Selcan section of the English DE characters article. Limorina (talk! ◾ contribs) 20:08, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

It won’t necessarily be that hard, Limorina, only the Infobox on this article and perhaps the links for the characters on the season articles need to be changed, I’m sure that can be done at some point. IronManCap (talk) 20:11, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

Image

IronManCap, what would you say about this image? Limorina (talk! ◾ contribs) 13:37, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

I think it’s good, Limorina, it gives a sense of his position, and has the Kayı and Oğuz symbols in the background. IronManCap (talk) 15:37, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

Limorina, do you think it would be a good idea to edit the infobox to have a picture of Tamer as Ertuğrul in KO alongside Engin in DE? IronManCap (talk) 09:48, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

Ok, given that isn’t actually possible, what would you think about combining them into one picture and having them side by side? IronManCap (talk) 09:50, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

IronManCap, I think I really like it the way it is, we don't really need an image of Tamer as Ertuğrul, he hardly made much appearance in KO, to be honest. An image of the actor is enough I think to have the reader know how he looks like in KO, the less non-free content, the better. It won't look that good either (this is my opinion), have a look at Sheldon Cooper. Limorina (talk! ◾ contribs) 10:08, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

Article title

User:Rosguill, could you please explain why you thought changing the title was a good idea? Ertuğrul, by the way, is not purely a fictional character and has significant historical basis on a historical figure, and I would say that this should be treated as the figure’s depiction in fiction, rather than him being a fictional character. Do you have any thoughts? IronManCap (talk) 22:47, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

IronManCap, I can't find any examples of existing articles that use (in fiction) as a parenthetical disambiguator, and prepositional phrases are rather uncommon disambiguators overall. The current disambiguator that I moved the article to accurately reflects the scope of this article (particularly as this is about Ertuğrul's portrayal in two specific, related TV series, rather than a broader article such as Cultural depictions of Julius Caesar), and is a more natural noun phrase disambiguator. _signed, Rosguill ^talk 23:00, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

I agree with Rosguill's thinking, I was going to suggest a title-change myself. The new one is better, and works even if "in other media" should be expanded. If that part should grow significantly, we can change it to "Ertuğrul in fiction", but that's no good for now, since 99.9% is about a particular fiction (counting Gaziverse as one fiction). Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 12:40, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

Thank you, future character articles from the 'Gaziverse' will have (fictional character) as a parentheses in that case, as well as any redirects. IronManCap (talk) 18:07, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

I look forward to nominating them from deletion having opinions about them. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 22:41, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

I have to say

That the historical accuracy section was much better than I expected, on the face of it, quite inline with WP:FILMHIST. Well done! "Ottoman Empire, which ruled the world for 600 years." was an interesting POV. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 12:45, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

Gråbergs Gråa Sång, I had a look at your edits on Atia of the Julii (I'm surprised you didn't nominate it for deletion) which led me to WP:FILMHIST. I didn't actually create that section, IronManCap did (I only did the reception and casting sections), but I left the note so thank you for making that edit on that article about the Rome character. Limorina (talk! ◾ contribs) 13:16, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

Maybe it should be, but at the time I looked at it, it actually seemed to have some decent sources mentioning the character. But I (sort of) deleted her son: [1]. When Rome was popular, many characters had separate articles for awhile, but Atia is the only one that's left, all others got merged into List of Rome characters. Caesar, for example, looked like this:[2]. Looking at better examples, there's Arya Stark. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 13:36, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

Limorina and Gråbergs Gråa Sång, do you think the maintenance tag on the historical accuracy section could perhaps be removed now? IronManCap (talk) 01:59, 22 February 2021 (UTC)

IronManCap, I feel really bad disagreeing with you most of the time on talk pages nowadays but I'm going to say no because of the following reasons;

1. Some of the sources there are unreliable as there's a blogpost citation.
2. Besides that there's only 5 other citations citing a whole lot of things so the amount of citations visually look sparse along with the fact that the third paragraph doesn't end with a citation.
3. The second paragraph's citations only cite a quarter of the things mentioned in that paragraph repated to İlbilge Hatun. Limorina (talk) 07:38, 22 February 2021 (UTC)

Apart from the blog (interesting though it is), there's also the 2012 [3], which shouldn't be used for this article either. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 17:00, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

FYI

You know that WP is very sensitive about copyright. When you copy text from one WP-article to another (that's allowed), you should state in the ES for example "Text copypasted from Ertuğrul". More at WP:COPYWITHIN. Also, I'm flattered to be copied. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 13:09, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

Ok but what does "ES" mean? Limorina (talk! ◾ contribs) 13:17, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

Help:Edit summary. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 13:21, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

Requested move 22 February 2021

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Ertuğrul Bey (fictional character) → Ertuğrul Bey (character) – Consistency with other fictional character articles, clearer disambiguation, consistency with in-universe pages such as Hafsa Hatun (character). IronManCap (talk) 20:41, 22 February 2021 (UTC)

I have discussed this briefly with Limorina at Draft talk:Gündoğdu Bey and Sungurtekin Bey (characters). I would be interested to know the opinions and advice of Rosguill or User:Gråbergs Gråa Sång. IronManCap (talk) 21:20, 22 February 2021 (UTC)

While I personally would be more likely to search for the current title, I'm not opposed to moving it, especially if that's the simplest way to maintain consistency across articles. _signed, Rosguill ^talk 21:25, 22 February 2021 (UTC)

Similar arguments to Talk:Halime Hatun (fictional character) apply here. IronManCap (talk) 12:48, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

I would suggest that this discussion should be closed now, I can’t close it myself as I’m not WP:Uninvolved. IronManCap (talk) 18:43, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

IronManCap, that is not so: you proposed it, there is unanimous opposition, you withdraw--that is fine. Drmies (talk) 23:09, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

İlbilge

Limorina, what would you say about perhaps having a section about İlbilge in this article, with an infobox and storyline, or maybe expanding 'Season 5' to include more information about her, in a similar way to how it has been done for Hafsa, and leaving a redirect on List of Diriliş: Ertuğrul characters? IronManCap (talk) 18:40, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

IronManCap, to be honest, she was as unnecessary as Bamsi's daughter. There isn't much you can add about her. The storyline section may get too long and the article won't look good with another infobox in my opinion. You can have a relationship section where you talk about his relationship with three other characters, but nothing more than that I guess. I'd advise you not to do that either. It's fine how it is, so please don't do anything. Limorina (talk) 18:53, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

Maybe, you can have a little bit about her in the 'Background' section. Limorina (talk) 18:56, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

It was just an idea, Limorina, I’m not too much of a fan myself, I thought it might have been a good idea since she’s credited as one of the main characters overall of the series. I’m surprised you don’t seem to like her, considering you add her in a lot of places as Osman's stepmother when others find it fairly irrelevant, but I would agree otherwise. IronManCap (talk) 18:59, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

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Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 07:20, 30 June 2021 (UTC)