Talk:Fred Clarke (footballer, born 1941)

On 24 June 2021, it was proposed that this article be moved from Fred Clarke (footballer, born 1941) to Fred Clarke (Northern Irish footballer). The result of the discussion was not moved.

This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.

If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.

Biography: Sports and Games

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography
	Sports portal This article is supported by the sports and games work group (assessed as Low-importance).

Football: England / Ireland / Arsenal Low‑importance

	Association football portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Football, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Association football on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.FootballWikipedia:WikiProject FootballTemplate:WikiProject Footballfootball
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	English football portal This article is supported by the English football task force (assessed as Low-importance).
	This article is supported by the Irish football task force (assessed as Low-importance).
	This article is supported by the Arsenal task force (assessed as Low-importance).

Northern Ireland Low‑importance

	Northern Ireland portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Northern Ireland, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Northern Ireland on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Northern IrelandWikipedia:WikiProject Northern IrelandTemplate:WikiProject Northern IrelandNorthern Ireland-related
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

It is requested that a photograph be included in this article to improve its quality.
The external tool WordPress Openverse may be able to locate suitable images on Flickr and other web sites.

Upload

Requested move 24 June 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved (non-admin closure) -Killarnee (C•T•U) 22:07, 3 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

It was proposed in this section that Fred Clarke (footballer, born 1941) be renamed and moved to Fred Clarke (Northern Irish footballer).

The discussion has been closed, and the result will be found in the closer's comment.

Links: current log • target log

This is template {{subst:Requested move/end}}

Fred Clarke (footballer, born 1941) → Fred Clarke (Northern Irish footballer) – Revised parenthetical qualifier would be analogous to the one used in the main title header for Fred Clarke (Australian footballer). — Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 16:16, 24 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. Standard disambiguation for association footballers is to use YOB. The Australian is an Australian rules footballer, hence the presence of the nationality. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:00, 25 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related page moves. Giant Snowman 14:38, 25 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per Necrothesp. Use of nationality is not ideal for association football players, and this is espaically so for players from Northern Ireland given the politics involved (hence why the player category is Category:Association footballers from Northern Ireland and not in-line with standard conventions of e.g. Category:English footballer, Category:Brazilian footballers etc. Giant Snowman 14:44, 25 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The category also lists variations, such as Aaron Black (Irish footballer), Aaron Black (Irish footballer), Peter Burke (Irish footballer), Malcolm Butler (Irish footballer), John Cunningham (Northern Ireland footballer), Robert Hamilton (Irish footballer), John Harris (Irish footballer), Jimmy Kelly (Northern Ireland footballer), Kevin McCabe (Gaelic footballer) and Alan McDonald (Northern Ireland footballer), to name another ten. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 07:53, 26 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Doubtless they will all be moved eventually. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Endeavoring to make footballers' parenthetical qualifiers analogous may well be a fool's errand or perhaps simply not the best use of my editing time but, for the record, my initial attempt at it consisted of unilaterally moving Fred Clarke (Australian footballer) → Fred Clarke (footballer, born 1932), thus making the qualifier analogous to the Northern Irish Fred Clarke (footballer, born 1941).

I effected the above-mentioned move after glancing at subject's Category:Australian rules footballers from Victoria (Australia) which, among its 10,631 entries, contains hundreds of similarly styled analogous qualifiers, from Bill Ahern (footballer, born 1865) and Bill Ahern (footballer, born 1874) to Charlie Young (footballer, born 1877) and Charlie Young (footballer, born 1918).

Since it was unclear whether such analogous "(footballer, born XXXX)" qualifiers were used solely in the event that both same-named men played under Australian rules or also applied in the event there was an association footballer named Bill Ahern or Charlie Young, I proceeded with the move, but it was soon reverted by a Wikipedian with lengthy editing experience in Australian football (User talk:Roman Spinner#Your recent move).

Ultimately, as in all disputed matters, it is up to consensus and this RM can be submitted as an exhibit in the however likely or unlikely event that such questions may be raised in the future. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 21:10, 27 June 2021 (UTC).[reply]

With presence of the examples provided above, I think we need to ensure the current status of naming standard about this subject.

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.