The contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to gender-related disputes or controversies or people associated with them, which has been designated as a contentious topic.
The topic of this article is the ideology or movement known variously in reliable sources as gender-critical feminism (including abbreviated forms such as "GC", "GC feminism) or trans-exclusionary radical feminism (including abbreviated forms such as "TERF ideology", "TERFism" and similar expressions). The two main titles are equivalent. The article was split off from the article Feminist views on transgender topics where the corresponding section is titled "Gender-critical feminism and trans-exclusionary radical feminism."
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Sharpe, Alex (May 2020). "Will Gender Self‐Declaration Undermine Women's Rights and Lead to an Increase in Harms?". The Modern Law Review. 83 (3): 539–557. doi:10.1111/1468-2230.12507. S2CID214079382.
Williams, Cristan (2021). "TERFs". The SAGE Encyclopedia of Trans Studies.
Varieties of TERFness, special issue of the Journal of Diversity and Gender Studies, 2023
Da Costa, Jade Crimson Rose (24 August 2021). "Chapter 27: The "New" White Feminism: Trans-Exclusionary Radical Feminism and the Problem of Biological Determinism in Western Feminist Theory". In Brunton, James; Carter, Kristi (eds.). TransNarratives: Scholarly and Creative Works on Transgender Experience. Toronto: Women's Press. pp. 317–334. ISBN9780889616226.
What on earth is this article about. Is TERF an expression of XX and XY sex determination? If it is then please say so in a more elegant manner. 92.18.249.104 (talk) 12:43, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This article is about Gender-critical feminism, as its title says. Sorry, I don’t understand your query. Do you have a suggestion for improving the wording of the article? Sweet6970 (talk) 17:02, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This article feels un-fit for Wikipedia standards Five pillars of Wikipedia. The article is confusing, overly wordy, and spends more words pointing holes in the ideology than explaining what the ideology is. Criticism should go in the criticism section, not in every sentence of the article. Wikipedia is a encyclopedia, not a collage essay.
The disambiguation notice at top links to Anti-gender movement which is significantly clearer article both in explaining its topic, and in doing so in a neutral and direct manner. There is also significant overlap which could be a good resource look to.
I get that this is a very loaded topic, and these kinds of subjects of Wikipedia tends to need a lot of people looking at them until they converge to a good point. But this article needs a serious overhaul. 91.130.50.13 (talk) 20:37, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No. Wikipedia is written from a neutral perspective, and this includes pointing [sic] holes in the ideology. We don't do uncritical exposition for ideologies, since Wikipedia is written from a neutral point of view, and an ideology includes a point of view. That's what an ideology is, a point of view is part of its essence. Wikipedia is also based on reliable sources and, where applicable, facts as established by reliable sources. While we might quote adherents to an ideology and explain its structure and basic premises, we also point out where these premises or structures are (obviously) wrong, if applicable. That is not criticism, more encyclopedic evaluation with respect to what reliable sources have to say. If a point is contentious, we attribute it. If it is not contentious, or represents a fringe position in a discussion, we treat it as such. This is to avoid giving false balance to various aspects of a topic. We do this precisely because Wikipedia is an encyclopedia.
After the release of the Cass Review, it turns out the gender critical side was actually right all along when it comes to puberty blockers and youth transition, so I expect the politicized disinformation smear in the intro paragraph will be coming down soon? Gsm54321 (talk) 15:04, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
What paragraph are you referring to? I don't think the lead of this article references either of those two topics. –RoxySaunders 🏳️⚧️ (💬 • 📝) 15:31, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It is unclear what changes you want to propose. The intro paragraph doesn't mention either puberty blockers or youth transition. Please be more specific. TucanHolmes (talk) 15:41, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No, we don't write this article based on the opinions of the government of the UK, Russia or any other country known for their attacks on LGBT+ people. The "Cass Review" has been roundly criticized, like everything else the UK does in regard to trans rights.[1][2] Anyway, this isn't an article on trans health, but an article on a specific anti-LGBT+ movement, part of the wider far-right or right-wing populist anti-gender movement. --Amanda A. Brant (talk) 15:13, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
AAB – you are surely aware of WP:NOTFORUM…. article talk pages exist solely to discuss how to improve articles; they are not for general discussion about the subject of the article….. Sweet6970 (talk) 13:11, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not really sure how you think NOTFORUM applies here, Sweet6970. Would you be willing to clarify (either here, or if you feel it's too far off topic, perhaps on either my or your user talkpage)? Alpha3031 (t • c) 13:18, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Alpha3031: Try asking yourself how Amanda A. Brant’s comment contributes/does not contribute to the improvement of this article. It is an expression of personal views about the subject of the article, which does not address the point of the discussion, which is about the prominence in the article of comments about supposed disinformation. This is a Contentious Topic, both in Wikipedia’s terms, and in the real world. A blanket statement that the gender-critical feminism is an anti-LGBT+ movement, part of the wider far-right or right-wing populist anti-gender movement. serves no purpose, and is likely to arouse emotion. Further emotion on this subject is surplus to requirements. In addition, there are named g-c feminists mentioned in the article. The comment in effect smears these individuals as being far-right, so there is a WP:BLP problem as well. Sweet6970 (talk) 16:30, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That seems like a minimal part of the comment, the sentence of which primarily focuses on stating that the two topics are different. It is still incredibly surprising to me anyone would suggests it implicates TPG but I will drop the matter on my end. Alpha3031 (t • c) 17:30, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think you can use Cass to make that argument without substantial WP:OR. For example, one citation is Billard, who says:
To support my argument, it is first necessary to evidence the claim that gender-critical discourse constitutes a coordinated disinformation campaign that is part of a broader political strategy to oppose transgender rights. As I have written elsewhere (Billard, 2022), there are various types of anti-transgender misinformation: (1) definitional misinformation, which is misinformation about what transition-related health care actually is and what it does; (2) misinformation about the accessibility of trans care; (3) misinformation about the safety of trans care; (4) misinformation about the cost of trans care; (5) misinformation about “desistance,”or the frequency with which people “cease to be trans”or“detransition”; and (6) misinformation about the etiology or “cause”of trans identity;
Now someone could argue that several of those points are potentially addressed by the Cass Review, with high quality evidence (notably, points 1, 3, 5 and 6). But that requires a lot of speculation about what it even is that Billard is talking about here as it is spectacularly vague, and in any case that's WP:OR so until a WP:RS wants to actually make that argument, Billard's handwavey assertions aren't likely to go anywhere.
A better criticism IMO is that one source just uses "disinformation" in passing in a fairly hyperbolic way that really just comes across as "opinions I disagree with", one isn't actually talking about "disinformation" at all and asserts statements are misinformation (eg. about trans inclusion in sports on basis of self-id, in the specific context of Spanish legislation) without justifying it or explaining why it isn't true AFAICT, and Billard's paper has no actual detail, and is hardly notable or significant for such a serious accusation. There's very little substance here, and it really doesn't belong in the lede given how sparse this is. Void if removed (talk) 14:57, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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