Talk:Hawthorne Heights

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Archive 1 (to November 2007)

song about Casey[edit]

There is a song on youtube writen by Hawthorne Heights, as a tribute to Casey. The song can be veiwed at youtubeit is called When 5 becomes 4. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Chaplain mos (talkcontribs) 13:02, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

kewl I guess

loveyourfaithLoveyourfaith (talk) 10:27, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

It's called "For Become One", it's track 7 on Fragile Future, lyrics: "we will always have each other/just like it was from the start/when five becomes four/and when for becomes one/you're not just passing on/you're passing on all the fun we had/you made us laugh/we only cried but once". That's the chorus anyway. Should be added at some point in the article. This article needs a total overhaul, it makes no sense, there's more on their incidents than their music - when the music is the reason why the article is notable. kiac (talk) 08:19, 3 August 2008 (UTC)


Some of the things on this wikipedia page reporting his death are being stated as fact. No where has their been confirmation of asthma or a blood clot- even to the point of the band themselves granting an interview to MTV and openly saying Casy HAD NO asthma issues. This page needs some serious cleanup. There shouldn't be any editing allowed until we know the full, OFFICIAL cause of death of Casey Calvert. He doesn't deserve rumors flying about him on the internet. There was enough disrespect to the band while he was alive, let's not fuel the fire with false claims. 17:47, 1 December 2007 (UTC)Amanda

R.I.P. Casey. We love and miss you!

i agree with above. if you read the mtv interview the band says that they dont know how he died and they are waiting for the coroners report. DONNT SPRED LIES OR RUMORS. HONOR HIS MEMORY!!!!

well if he's dead we should remove the screamo label from the genres, I cant imagine TJ screaming. TJ Did do screamo, but on the band list it says he's deceased, i mean Ffs the word deceased sounds like he rotted to death or something, its like he passed away and they just go on about 'oh he's dead' and all that, why cant his memories and good times friends, family and fellow members of HH be remembered in a good way and not by slating him with one of the most cringing words in the dictionary, if you have a heart you'll feel the same way. R.i.p Buddy

The guys name is JT. Reverting that edit as unconfirmable. —Preceding unsigned comment added by SayUnclePal (talkcontribs) 19:50, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

If there is enough well-sourced material on the life and career of Casey Calvert, perhaps someone would write a full Wikipedia article about him? At this point attempts to add him to deaths lists on Wikipedia will be blocked. An article on any individual added is needed to prevent Wikipedia from becoming a memorial site for everyone who dies. If an article can be written to conform to NPOV, sourcing and notability standards this will no longer be an issue. DoktorDec (talk) 11:25, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Doktor dude is right, why does "The Rev" get his own page while Casey Calvert doesn't? If you ask me, he was just as important a musician and he deserves his own page.

R.I.P. Casey, Hawthorne Heights is not the same without you. <3 (talk) 06:43, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

But nobody is asking you? WP:NMUSIC. kiac. (talk-contrib) 14:01, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

This band doesn't belong to Emo and Screamo[edit]

It is interesting to see, what genres bands could be categorized.

The sources for the "screamoband Hawthorne Heights" are stupid. I mean, what is yahoo? isn't it a just normal newsportal with mainstream information and no knowlegde in underground music? So what is this for a serious source? it isn't. "Allmusicguide" can be used only sometimes, too, because of the sometimes wrong information.

  • referring to above paragraph

underground music? no, hawthorne heights is a mainstream band which has a mainstream label, it is not underground in the slightest, bands who play shows in clubs for 50-100 people and have a low popularity are underground, not a band playing stadiums......and i think yahoo knows the score, its fucking yahoo for christ sake

Also when you compare the musical style of screamo: Mosty screaming; mid-tempo D.C. Hardcore, with short (sometimes spoken) emotional parts; aggressive, chaotic screaming parts, it compares in some way with Grindcore; no Chorus, no order in the songs; Sounds like Funeral Diner, Orchid or Saetia. I don't think, this band is like that!

Mc-Ralph (German Wikipedia) —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 15:34, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

hawthorne heights dont have a screamer anymore, so maybe put (past material) or something just in brackets, and pop punk is probaly more accepted with people when it comes to this band. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 16:34, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

While true, its sourced. So, it stays. Inhumer (talk) 22:22, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

What about Pop punk? i sourced that yet the source and the genre were taken down —Preceding unsigned comment added by Thrice34 (talkcontribs) 22:52, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Might have been because your source wasn't great, meaning it didn't meet wiki standerds for sources.13Tawaazun14 (talk) 02:42, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

I think that Casey should be added back to where is says members, because the band them selfs said that Casey would always be apart of the band. No matter what........ No. Hes dead. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Afia7x (talkcontribs) 03:49, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Pop Punk fits this band, much better than emo, if only a source could be found. Clevelandmusic24 (talk) 17:13, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

This band doesn't play emo, screamo or post-hardcore. No matter what sources say so. If I find sources saying Green Day play classical Jazz music, can I add that to the page even though it's completely obvious how they don't? —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 13:26, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Much agreed. So why does no one remove "screamo" from genres? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Punkrockrunner (talkcontribs) 00:20, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

More then a few sources call them as such, that's why. You do NOT remove sourced content because you don't agree with it.13Tawaazun14 (talk) 00:58, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

I've been ignoring everything posted in this section, because all of the calls for removal of "screamo" are based on personal opinions, most of which are neither neutral nor verifiable. No attempts to make them verified have been made, and many of the comments aren't even in proper English, which makes me even less likely to take them seriously. Chubbles (talk) 19:02, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Still, genre has nothing to do with opinion. This is not screamo or emo. That is fact, not opinion. If your so called "trustworthy sources" stated that Britney Spears played death metal (even though she plays pop/dance), would she play death metal? The answer to that is: No.

So no matter how many sources you find stating that Hawthorne Heights play emo or screamo, they don't. They don't even sound remotely similar to either of the genres. (talk) 15:39, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Please read WP:V, WP:RS and WP:OR. Wikipedia makes no claim to truth, it reports what sources have stated. The answer to that question, if a verifiable and reliable source stated that britney spears played death metal, that genre would still go in the info box. "The threshold for inclusin is veriability, not truth." (talk) 19:11, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Well, no. The degree to which regular Wikipedians disregard the truth is rather staggering; we do have a responsibility to report the truth. However, there is no such thing as truth for genre designations; they are matters of opinion and opinion alone. Honestly, in cases where genres are disputed, I would prefer that no genre be listed, but damned if I'll ever get a consensus on that one. Chubbles (talk) 20:22, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

JT scream[edit]

Why doesnt JT scream for the band? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Thrice34 (talkcontribs) 14:33, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

It would probably affect his lead vocals, I know it'd be difficult to sing as high as he does and also scream lots of, it'd be difficult to do in concert as a lot of the screaming and clean singing parts overlap. James25402 (talk) 09:42, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

so when they play songs that had screaming. I assume JT will hold a mic out to the crowd for someone to scream? i read he said fans can provide screaming themselves if thats what they wanted

signed by loveyourfaith Loveyourfaith (talk) 22:25, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

TWLOHA involvement[edit]

The organization To Write Love On Her Arms (also here has, since Casey Calvert's death, come out with a t-shirt dedicated to him [1]. I think this deserves to be on the page. Rochelle CMN (talk) 05:57, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Current Members[edit]

shouldn't casey be listed in the current members if he is still listed on the new album just a thought —Preceding unsigned comment added by Evilchickenb (talkcontribs) 03:05, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

No. Even though he is still listed on the albums, Casey Calvert is deseaced (R.I.P.) and will not be appearing in any shows, music videos , albums, or anything for that matter. The band is simply expressing their love and memory for him.--Wassup!!-D33DeeD33Guy Is the SuperComputer of Code Wiki!!??...R.I.P. Dad 00:17, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

Post hardcore[edit]

Why does this site call Hawthorne heights post-hardcore? even if it is sourced as a genre, why in the introduction?

Their music really has very little influence from hardcore. Thrice was post hardcore, underoath and enter shakari are. Also, with now the absence of a screamer the hardcore influence for HH is gonna be even less than it was before. I think that pop punk should get sourced and put in place of post hardcore, the sound is a lot closer to that.

Screamo is ok to have but it should say (first two albums) since people who listen to their third album but are not too familar with the band, will wonder why they are labbeled such if they dont scream, so it'll be important to say its only on their first two albums.

signed by loveyourfaith Loveyourfaith (talk) 22:32, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

I disagree. Their music, while you could argue is certainly more mainstream than a lot of post-hardcore bands, they clearly take quite a bit of hardcore influence. Their songs contain hardcore breakdowns more often than not, screamed vocals, fast, aggressive paces, overdriven guitars, albeit done in a mainstream way. As it is sourced I see no reason to remove it, although I can see your point about pop punk and the fact that Hawthorne Heights' music will probably become less hardcore-influenced. I think we should wait for the new album to come out before we reconsider this, however. James25402 (talk) 09:55, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

I really think that Pop-punk is an even more inaccurate genre for Hawthorne Heights. Pop punk is generally a term interchangeable with post-70s powerpop, and buzzsawpop, and is characterized by predominately major key tonality, song structure based on melody, and general songwriting characteristics in common with early rock and pop performed with modern instrument sounds, including bands such as Green Day, The Ramones, and Blink-182. This does not at all seem to accurately characterize their style. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 23:57, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Oops Error :o[edit]

It says Micah has been in the band since 2001 which is definitely not true.




He definitely didn't join in 2007. If he had of, there'd be articles everywhere on it, i can't find anything. There's video footage of him playing with Casey Calvert in 2006 (You do know he didn't replace Casey). That's all i can find specifically. Although i did find that Casey only joined in 2003, i think all the others are founding members, i dunno, i'll have to dig further to work this out. kiac (talk) 15:11, 22 August 2008 (UTC)micah has been there from the very begining him and jt grew up in the same town together.
Oh. Why was he not on there myspace band members? until This January then? But yeah. Thought that he replaced him. Wasn't with them last year when they came to Va beach on the Warped tour I think it was which btw Kicked Major *** EmoVampireNinjaBoi (talk) 23:04, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
Well there's no other former members, and if Calvert began in 2003 - i can't imagine they started as a 3 piece (without Carli) in 2001. But we'll have to find out properly, i'll have a look a little bit later. Maybe he left the band for a short amount of time? kiac (talk) 02:40, 23 August 2008 (UTC)
I've removed the {{editsemiprotected}} template as it's still unclear exactly what needs to be changed, and to what. ~ mazca t | c 14:04, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
JT is the ONLY original member of the band. See the A Day In The Life (band) article for the original line-up as A Day In The Life. From my understanding, they did not change their name to Hawthorne Heights until they had their current set-up, i.e what was on The Silence In Black And White.Also, HH and ADitL has always had 3 guitars,, counting JT. -Violask81976 19:59, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Intro needs to be rewritten[edit]

The intro to this article needs to be rewritten. According to the RIAA, the only certification that Hawthorne Heights was awarded was for The Silence in Black and White which achieved a Gold certification. I updated the discography section with this new information, but now I notice that the intro states that The Silence in Black and White went Platinum and that both If Only You Were Lonely and "Saying Sorry" went Gold. I realize this information has a source, but when it comes to US album certifications, the RIAA is a better source over some news website. Fezmar9 (talk) 23:27, 25 November 2008 (UTC)


If anything, this band is POST-EMO. They don't even sound like 3rd generation emo bands like Texas is the Reason and Sunny Day Real Estate. They lack most of the charectaristics of emotional-hardcore, clean guitars, fastfastfast sloppy playing, and the use of actual scream vocals like fry screams and deathchords, in oppose to yelling they head of proves it once more. "Screamo" could be understandable to some extent if they were faster, but emo, no. They are not. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 05:19, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Please note that if a source says so, then it is so as far as Wikipedia is concerned.

A read of WP:V and WP:RS might help you. (talk) 22:57, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

Jeff Schneeweis recorded Fragile Future-not Howard, —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ibcamiam (talkcontribs) 23:17, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

No,Sunny Day Real Estate & Texas Is The Reason are the post-emo bands.Post-emo refers the the basically 90's Indie Emo which followed Fugazi,Jawbox and Drive Like Jehu. Post-Emo is dead.

Hawthorne heights are 'modern emo' or 'emo pop'.

-- (talk) 12:52, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

"modern emo" and "emo pop" are not real terms, where did you even get that? And whoever said "post-emo is dead". I completely agree, everything past that point is either indie, post-hardcore, or some sort of pop punk, as far as I know —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 02:44, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

The source doesn't call the band emo, it calls the members in the band emo. So, someone should take away the emo source because they most certainly aren't. (talk) 08:23, 27 July 2009 (UTC)


I'm pretty confused about how Hawthorne Heights have many promotional photos of them having five members, did they have three guitarists? If Casey Calvert is the only former member (that isn't in the band anymore due to his death) wasn't he replaced by Micah Carli in which Hawthorne Heights had to stick without a second guitarist for awhile until they added Micah into the band? Or was he always in the band and he didn't start doing unclean vocals until now? If he was in the band the whole time, that would make sense, if he wasn't in the band the whole time and only replaced Casey Calvert when he died then that wouldn't make sense, I'm just trying to figure out why many of their early photos show five members in the band. • GunMetal Angel 04:08, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

They had 5 members from 2003-2007, until Casey's death. They then opted not to replace him, with their previous album and the first after his death, Fragile Future, being a lot more cleaner pop-punkier record, with next to no unclean vocals. It has only been announced recently that Carli will now provide uncleans for their upcoming album, though he has always been in the band. I have a hunch (not too sure) they only ever had two guitarists, with JT moving to guitar as well as his singing after Casey's death. If you're talking about really early photos, perhaps they're of A Day in the Life (band), which would explain the different faces. Hope this clears it up for you. kiac. (talk-contrib) 04:33, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
No, even the picture on the article shows them having five members in the band, and no, nothing you said didn't clar anything up. I already knew all the information you stated, although then again, it just makes me wonder even more... I'm guessing JT Woodruff originally didn't play guitar while singing, they had two guitarists minus Woodruff is what I'm guessing, but if this is so, who was the guitarist? His name isn't show anywhere. • GunMetal Angel 04:40, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
What are you on about? They had 5 members for at least four years... thus the photo with 5 members. Two guitarists: Lead Micah Carli, Rhythm Casey Calvert. Casey dies, JT takes over rhythm. Nothing to mull over here. kiac. (talk-contrib) 05:10, 1 December 2009 (UTC)


OK! to end all these 'genre disputes', I added two more genres today. There are now six sourced and reasonable genres. Each of these genres represent a large selection of Hawthorne Heights' songs. THEY SHOULD ALL REMAIN THERE!!!

thank you! --♫ Chris-B-Koolio ♫ ... (Talk) 03:36, 18 January 2010 (UTC)


Ok, um... who raped all of the Hawthorne Heights pages? A lot of pages for their songs were deleted and now redirect to the album that they are on. There was A LOT of information on some of those pages!! For example, the page for "The End of the Underground" and for "This Is Who We Are" had information that is not on any of the other Hawthorne Heights' Wikipedia pages that they now redirect to.

So, what's up?!?!? (I DO understand why the page for "Silver Bullet" and "The Transition" would be deleted, but those other pages had lots of relevant and sourced information!!!!! There really was no need to delete them.

AAAAND, now the Template for the band is all messed up, too.

PLEASE discuss this on my talk page.--♫ Chris-B-Koolio ♫ ... (Talk) 22:36, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

Never mind, never mind. i just finished reading the Wikipedia Notability page for songs, and i realized that those pages dont belong. I'm sorry for all of the trouble. =P--♫ Chris-B-Koolio ♫ ... (Talk) 22:57, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

Unclean vocalist[edit]

So... I'm not sure one would consider Casey an "unclean" vocalist. I mean... that's a stretch. The music is no where close to death metal. What do other people think? I mean listen to Veil of Maya. That is an "unclean" vocalist. NOT Casey.

I disagree. Regardless of the genre the vocals Casey provides ARE unclean vocals, and considering he provides no clean vocals he is strictly an unclean vocalist. It is worth noting that unclean vocals are rare in Hawthorne Heights' music, and I'm sure no one would ever mistake them for death metal. You don't need to worry about that. OBVIOUSLY death metal or any related genres are mentioned nowhere in this article. That doesn't change that Casey is an unclean vocalist, however.

 : Response, I think you are right. For some reason I thought he was the main vocalist with the bright and elevated voice. But now I have realized that I was mistaken and that Casey is the occasional unclean interjection to the lead vocalist who I think is named JT Woodruff. Have you listend to Veil of Maya? Epic huh?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 12:03, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

Heck yeah! lol. I love all kinds of music.♫ Chris-B-Koolio ♫ ... (Talk) 19:47, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

Death of Casey Calvert[edit]

This new stub ought to be merged in to the #Controversy section instead of outright deletion. Any thoughts? Bearian (talk) 23:32, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

External links modified[edit]

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External links modified[edit]

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