Talk:Interstate 75/Archive 1

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Naming the Expressway[edit]

Would Interstate 75 name it Detroit-Atlanta Freeway? It's a great name for that. I love to travel from Detroit to Atlanta every weekend.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talkcontribs) 04:00, 3 October 2003.

No. I-75 in the north starts in Upper Michigan at Sault Ste. Marie (well north of Detroit) and ends in south Florida past Naples, Florida. I-75 technically ends in Miami, Florida if you include the Alligator Alley.

Alligator Alley should be included because I-75 continues south after the end of the Alley at US-27. TrbleClef 22:42, 22 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Alligator Alley received its I-75 signs in 1993; the actual southern terminus is an interchange with three Florida State Roads (Palmetto Expressway, Gratigny Parkway, and SR 916) in Hialeah, Florida. In the early planning stages (1960s), I-75 was originally planned to follow along the Tamiami Trail, not Alligator Alley, and the (now) Dolphin Expressway to a junction with I-95 in downtown Miami. The plan was abandoned in the 1970s. 15:01, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

U.S. Highway 23 acts as a wormhole for I-75 near the Detroit area; should we mention in the notes that US-23 acts as a bypass for I-75 between Flint and Toledo? --SuperDude 07:58, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Southern terminus[edit]

Do we really need all three highways listed in the routebox? I'm inclined to say only list SR 826, since it's the intersecting/cross road at the terminus. SR 916 is the apparent continuation, and precedent is not to list these: there's no mention of I-20 business loop at the eastern end of I-20. SR 924 seems to be a surface street coming in through the spaghetti. —C.Fred (talk) 02:33, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

  • Actually, the continuation is SR 924, the Gratigny Parkway, which is an expressway as is SR 826 (Palmetto Expressway). State Road 916 is the surface street to which C.Fred is referring, and can be dropped without anybody (but the locals) noticing. But both expressways at the southern terminus should be mentioned as both are significant. [1]B.Wind 03:47, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

The idea of an infobox is to give general information, so someone can look and see "aha, that's what this road is". This is why I'm using "near Miami" rather than "in Hialeah". How about a compromise:

--SPUI (T - C - RFC - Curpsbot problems) 09:36, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

  • I would think a city that is twice the size of Orlando is significant enough for its own merit - and the residents of Hialeah would have no such difficulty agreeing to it as well. As it is, there appeared to have been a compromise by dropping SR 916 from the box. If Hialeah is "near Miami" then St. Petersburg is "near Tampa." 23:46, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
  • Going by precedent, I say to put "near Miami" in the infobox and "in Hialeah" in the body of the article. I'm looking at Interstate 30, which has its eastern terminus near Little Rock/in North Little Rock; North Little Rock is the third-largest city in Arkansas. But it's splitting hairs; Hialeah is a large enough city to stand on its own, IMHO. —C.Fred (talk) 00:32, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
  • The anon is a bit off on the stats (Hialeah has about 230,000 people, the fifth largest in Florida, but Orlando will most likely pass it by 2010), but he(?) makes a good point. When you say "going by precedent", does that mean that something that ends in Oakland is "near San Francisco" or "near Sacramento"? That something in Fort Worth is "near Dallas"? For a group of people who which to provide accuracy and legibility, saying that I-75 ends "near Miami" rather than "in Hialeah" is rather befuddling - in fact, to reach Miami from there, one must cross a city of 230,000 -- and then two or three others along the way, that is, unless one wishes to go diagonally along US 27 until encountering an extension of the City of Miami that contains Miami Jai-Alai... and that's really reaching for it. Let's make it accurate instead of fudging it - we've already "fudged it" by dropping the reference to SR 916 - and move forward. B.Wind 03:42, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
Size isn't everything - the point of an infobox is to give general information. Many more people know Miami than Hialeah. --SPUI (T - C - RFC - Curpsbot problems) 07:23, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
What does that have anything to do with accuracy? Size isn't everything - if that's the case, SPUI, you would have left the Hialeah reference alone... as you should. 23:36, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
Look up accuracy in the dictionary. --SPUI (T - C - RFC - Curpsbot problems) 05:31, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
Telling people to look things up in the dictionary is not helpful, and doesn't improve your position. Furthermore if everyone calls Hialeah 'somewhere near Miami' than of course no one will know of Hialeah. (Disclaimer: I live in neither Hialeah nor Miami) TimL 22:22, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
  • This argument is ridiculous. If the southern terminus is located in Haileah, then there is no reason why it should state anything other than Haileah as the southern terminus. Telling people it is "near Miami" is not a precise location, and it is misleading. Just because Miami is a more well-known location doesn't mean anything if it is not the right location. (Notorious4life 21:29, 25 April 2006 (UTC))

Straw poll[edit]

Based on the discussion above, it looks like "in Hialeah" is the favored verbage for the southern terminus, instead of "near Miami". What is everybody's opinion, just so I can get a feel for where we collectively stand?

  • In Hialeah. —C.Fred (talk) 01:20, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
  • In Hialeah. — 13px Я не имею Anarchy-symbol.svg никакой жизни Hammer and sickle.svg 02:06, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
  • Near Miami. --Evan Seeds (talk) 02:46, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
  • near Miami, FL. The point of an infobox is to give a general idea of the subject. "Near Miami" is just as correct as "in Hialeah", and is more useful, as Miami is better-known. Hialeah can be in the intro text where space is not at a premium. --SPUI (T - C - RFC - Curpsbot problems) 02:55, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
  • Near Miami - while Hialeah is a good-sized city, it is included in the urbanized area whose designation is Miami, i.e. Hialeah is essentially a suburb of Miami. This is similar to the case of the eastern terminus of I-80. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Polaron (talkcontribs)
  • Near Miami - per above. I recognise Miami but not Hialeah and I consider myself totally separate from US Highways, what with living in the UK. If one wants to know roughly where it is (and knows nothing of the USA), Miami would be useful in the infobox. If they want to know exactly where it is, they can read the article. --Celestianpower háblame 12:35, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
  • Near Miami - Even the FWHA site says I-75 ends in Miami and it doesn't even mention Hialeah. Furthermore, many of those people referenced above are professed SPUIstalkers and really care what the box says as long as it is anti-SPUI. KelleyCook 16:10, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
  • Please refrain from personal attacks. JohnnyBGood t c 17:49, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
  • In Hialeah, why should Interstate 75 and 80 be unique? All other interstates point to where the physical road ends. Saying Hiaheah is a suburb of Miami is like saying Oakland is a suburb of San Francisco. It's just not true. JohnnyBGood t c 16:51, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
Why do you say that? In the specific case of Oakland, the urban area is, in fact, designated by the Census Bureau as "San Francisco-Oakland", a multi-core urban area. Oakland is therefore a different case than Hialeah. Polaron 17:15, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
Well the censue bureau has never been that smart. San Jose is infact the largest and prime city in that particular region and has been for 10 years, but the census guys still haven't gotten with the times on that either. In this case however I-75 ends 15 miles from the Miami city line, in Hialeah. Why beat around the bush? JohnnyBGood t c 17:48, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
I don't know what you mean. San Jose is an entirely separate urban area. Also, it has nothing to do with the fact that Hialeah is a suburb of Miami. Polaron 17:57, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
By the reasoning that since Hialeah and Miami are in the same SMSA, so are Fort Lauderdale and West Palm Beach, as their counties are also part of the area designated by the Bureau of the Census. That would mean that West Palm Beach, 50 miles north of Miami, is also "near Miami." Also, to say that Hialeah is a suburb of Miami ignores its history as the two cities "grew together" over the 80-plus years of the incorporation of Hialeah in 1925. B.Wind 05:34, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
No, since those areas are in separate metropolitan divisions, and are classified as "central places". Hialeah is not designated as a central place. In any case, that still doesn't change the fact that Hialeah is a suburb of Miami. Polaron 06:56, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
  • In regards to B.Wind's comment above, he is exactly right. To say that the southern terminus is "near Miami" is not a specific location, and it can denote anywhere within a 50 mile radius of Miami. To say "near Miami" could be refering to any of the 150 different named locations within the metropolitan area. It also intentionally ignores the respectability and notability of the city of Haileah, the fifth largest city in the state of Florida. — 13px Я не имею Anarchy-symbol.svg никакой жизни Hammer and sickle.svg 12:06, 02 May 2006 (UTC)
  • Near Miami. "Near" is commonly used for these designations, and "Miami" is much more informative than "Hialeah" because fewer people know the location of Hialeah. Later, in the text of the article, the exact terminus can be specified. -Will Beback 18:24, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
  • In Hialeah for the reasons posted higher up on this Talk Page. The terminus is in a city larger in population than Orlando - and in fact, to get to Miami from there, one must cross this city of 230,000 people in any of three directions, two of which require crossing yet another city along the way. The United States Post Office doesn't consider Hialeah part of Miami - its ZIP Codes start with 330 instead of Miami's 331 and 332. B.Wind 02:14, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
  • Near Miami in the infobox, and Hialeah specified in the article. olderwiser 23:29, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

The straw poll violates WP:V (and, by extension WP:NOR). There is no reliable source that states that the southern end is "near Miami", and virtually all sources show the terminus to be in Hialeah. Furthermore, the phrase "near Miami" violates WP:NPOV as it puts a value judgment of Miami over Hialeah. Unless there is a preponderance of evidence that says that I-75 ends, not in Hialeah, but "near Miami," Wikipedia should reflect its sources and state the actual location: in Hialeah, and the junction of SR 826, SR 924, and SR 916. 18:25, 23 July 2007 (UTC)


Any further reverts of 'in Hialeah" by user SPUI should be considered vandilism. TimL 02:59, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Please don't be daft. You can't just "make" something vandilism. [sic] If someone exceeds three reverts, then use the 3RR noticeboard.
brenneman{L} 06:47, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

  • In light of the poll above, the argument could be made that any reverts of "in Hialeah" by user SPUI are now actually vandalism cleanup! —C.Fred (talk) 00:05, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
  • Nonsense. User:SPUI is never right. JohnnyBGood t c 01:04, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
  • That statement alone shows bias against SPUI. Evan Seeds (talk) 01:07, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
  • Explain that statement please. JohnnyBGood t c 01:10, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
  • I wouldn't say that, and I'm not on his side in the naming dispute. --Rschen7754 (talk - contribs) 23:16, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
  • It was a joke ;). I'm sure he's right sometimes. JohnnyBGood t c 23:41, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
  • I should've smilied my comment. :) I don't necessarily always agree with his means, but I can see the rationale for the end in this specific case. —C.Fred (talk) 01:12, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
  • I doubt you're alone in that sentiment. Several users have expressed similar opinions. I think that's the only reason he hasn't been permenantly blocked up to now. JohnnyBGood t c 01:16, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Zilwaukee Bridge[edit]

No mention is made of the Zilwaukee Bridge in this article. The old bridge was the only bascule bridge on the entire length of 75. The traffic backups were legendary. --Brad101 16:27, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Exit Lists, anyone?[edit]

Who here wants to work on Exit lists by state? They've got them on I-95, they should be here too. DanTD 14:23, 24 June 2006 (EST)

No they shouldn't be on this main page as they take of huge amounts of space. If you want to add exit lists, follow SPUI's example with Interstate 75 in Georgia, create individual state pages and put them there. For that matter the lane configurations should be moved there also.
So, we can make the lists into new pages with links to the I-75 page. DanTD 17:00, 26 June 2006 (EST)

The Interstate 75 in Florida page is here[edit]

I just started the Interstate 75 in Florida page. I'm calling for any interested Wikipedia members to edit the site and add whatever information they can. DanTD 19:28, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

long distance mileage signs[edit]


Since an anonymous editor is bouncing from IP to IP and changing the southern terminus repeatedly, is it time to protect this article against anonymous editing? The edit-revert cycle isn't doing anything to change consensus; forcing him to the talk page would at least point him in the direction of dialogue rather than edit warring. —C.Fred (talk) 22:37, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

It's not just me - there are a bunch of Miami Dade College students, some of whom attend the Hialeah campus who are assisting in the editing and enforcing a few policies that a few "regulars" have shown a tendancy to ignore. The {{refimprove}} tag says it all: unsourced assertions may be challenged and removed. Simply superseding a cited entry - with citation - with a POV entry with no reference indicating that it is "near Miami" (the repeatedly-removed reference literally shows the terminus within the Hialeah city limits) does not comply with WP:CITE and could be considered vandalism... or are the project members happy that this has made WP:LAME?
Oh, one other thing: there never was consensus as C.Fred asserts (don't let the above straw poll fool you: there was a majority but a definite disagreement, and polls are not binding even if there were close to a more definitive outcome. Of course there are two simpler ways to end the dispute: either keep the cited text or find a citation that definitively states that Interstate 75 ends "near Miami" and not ten miles away from it. (talk) 23:34, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
Ten miles is "near" on the scale of I-75... --NE2 19:36, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
So is Windsor, Ontario, less than two miles away from I-75. Nonetheless, subjective interpretations must yield to objective, documented, cited, facts. To do so would reduce the credibility of Wikipedia and the project. To state that, despite the terminus being within a city of over 230,000 people, that I-75 ends "near Miami", a city ten miles away, is ludicrous when the length of the road is reported to within 52 feet. Hialeah is several times further from Miami than the Meadowlands is from New York. (talk) 20:04, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Southern terminus - sourced[edit]

Florida gives text descriptions of routes on their Intrastate Highways System map.[2] Map reference 404, Interstate 75, is located "From Palmetto Expwy (SR 826) in Miami to Georgia State Line". Since a reliable source now says in Miami, I am going to change the article accordingly. —C.Fred (talk) 04:30, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

It's contradicted by other reliable (and official) sources, the Hialeah municipal map and the official Miami-Dade County planning map to name two. (talk) 19:57, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
Except it's not actually in Miami; it's in a Miami suburb. "Near Miami" is completely accurate and is the most useful for the reader. --NE2 19:35, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
It's subjective, to say the least, and there is not a single objective reference that states that the terminus is "near Miami", but there are many that either state that it is in Hialeah or show indeniably that it is within Hialeah city limits. (talk) 19:57, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

The Miami Herald says I-75 is in the "Miami area". --NE2 19:47, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

Does that article explicitly state where the terminus is? The viewable portion led me to believe that it's talking about portions of I-75 inbound to Miami, i.e. in the metro area, and not wherever the terminus proper is. By contrast, FL DOT says that the terminus is "in Miami".
As a matter of personal preference, I thought that "near Miami" was suitable. However, since FL DOT outright says "in", I can't justify changing it to "near" in contradiction of the source. —C.Fred (talk) 21:51, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
FDOT is wrong; the terminus is not within the Miami city limits. --NE2 22:42, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
The interchange is entirely within the city limits of Hialeah (one ramp clips Miami Lakes). For all you Hialeah-haters, I'd suggest checking a map that shows the city limits when you verify the location of the southern terminus. (talk) 19:57, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
That's not the point. The end technically being outside Miami city limits is not being disputed. That is well explained in the body of the article. In the infobox, which is for at a glance information, we normally put well-known cities. Hialeah is not a control city while Miami is. Furthermore, Miami is the central city of the metropollitan area, Hialeah is a suburb of Miami. So, in the infobox, Miami is the more appropriate place to list. Hialeah is within the metro area of Miami is it not? Then "near Miami" is sufficient as that is the urban area served by the highway. --Polaron | Talk 20:00, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
No, Polaron, it is precisely the point. If it can be sourced objectively as "near Miami", without interpretation by either the reader or the editor, then and only then should it supersede what the bulk of the reliable sources showing the actual location of the terminus: within the city limits of Hialeah. The Infobox should be showing objective, cited facts, and "near Miami" is neither objective nor reliably cited in light of official documents (of Miami-Dade County and of Hialeah) or reliable secondary sources showing the official boundaries of the municipalities in Miami-Dade County. The aversion to this is silly, and contrary to the positions taken in other parts of Wikipedia, and I strongly recommend that this also should be taken into consideration. (talk) 20:11, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
Hialeah is in the Miami metro area. Hialeah is a suburb of Miami. Hialeah is part of the urbanized area of Miami. Hialeah is not listed as a control city but Miami is. Hialeah is not as well known globally as Miami. That the terminus is technically outside the municipality of Miami is not the issue here. --Polaron | Talk 20:23, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
It's not that it's "technically outside the municipality of Miami" - it ends ten miles away from Miami, and the argument seems to be that you do not believe that the rules regarding sourcing, objective fact (WP:NOR and WP:NPOV, if I am correct, come to mind) don't apply here. You have yet to find a reliable source that states that the terminus is "near Miami" - a subjective, not objective, assessment and not a fact - when there are several that definitively state (and SHOW) that the terminus is in Hialeah. Sorry, but your justification flies in the face of Wikipedia policy... and you cannot honestly claim that there was consensus to that "near Miami" nonsense if the Straw Poll is any indication. While there was a majority of "voters" chiming in for that phrasing, clearly the editors are divided regarding this. There was no consensus supporting your position, and there are Wikipedia policies and guidelines that actually oppose it. (talk) 20:16, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
Shall I take it, then, that the anonymous editor would prefer it to say "in Miami", on the simple grounds that we have a source that says exactly that? —C.Fred (talk) 21:38, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
I can't speak for anybody else at Miami Dade College who have been joining this little party, but this anonymous editor would prefer to use a more definitive source that actually shows and/or states that the terminus is in Hialeah. The fdot source that you're alluding to is off by 10 miles to the northwest, and there are multiple sources available (including one that I've seen repeatedly removed without justification) showing this. Keep in mind that Miami Dade College has eight campuses, including one (dare I say it?) in Hialeah roughly one mile south of the interchange. (talk) 21:58, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
And this anonymous editor sees that a handful of people don't give a damn about reliable sources or following Wikipedia rules in the first place. All they care about is their egos, and that anybody who tries to make the article comply with the verification and NPOV rules are called (in very bad faith, I must add!) "vandals". No, Kelly Cook - as stated before, it's more than one person trying to get all of the information in Wikipedia factual and correct. But Ms. (?) Cook, isn't assume good faith a policy every bit as important as relable sources and making sure that everything here is verifiable? Or are you just going to blackball the students, faculty, and other residents of the immediate area of the source of the controversy and declare that Hialeah does not exist? Are you going to insist that an unsourced value judgment overrules a sourced fact? If so, Jimmy Wales should immediately shut down Wikipedia because its credibility would be zero. (talk) 20:06, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Edit war over Northern terminus[edit]

The link at [3] shows photographic evidence, specifically [4], that I-75 ends before the toll plaza and is not carried over to the border on the International Bridge. Imzadi1979 (talk) 00:58, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

See my reply at Talk:Interstate 75 in Michigan. --NE2 10:24, 12 July 2008 (UTC)


Sorry to ask this as I have little experience with whatever 'policies' or what not there are for material to be added to a wikipedia page or even wikipedia editing in general but is it odd that there isnt any mention of the demolition of most of Hastings street detroit (other wise known as black bottom) to make way for I 75? An act that displaced numerous African americans and is listed as one of the contributing factors of the 1967 Detroit riots?

Not even in the history or michigan section of this article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 04:04, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

Do I finally see an end to this lame edit war?[edit]

One of the curses of forgetting to remove an article from one's watch list is to see the edit war, line by line, as the article gets bounced back and forth. Frankly, I no longer give a damn about any road-related article anymore as two cliques are determined to run roughshod over Wikipedia rules in the two major Roads Wikiprojects. Nonetheless, I was encouraged to see that, finally, there appears to be a crack in the wall toward compromise. While the "near Miami" is completely redundant and POV in the infobox (it is duplicated on the same line just to the left of it) the statement that is objectively supported by a verifiable, cited reference is finally kept, and I hope that the people who worked so hard on the appearance of two words in an infobox would work just as hard at improving this mostly-unsourced article. I sincerely wish that both sides would simply leave the infobox alone until it is time to agree that to be consistent with the rest of Wikipedia, the "near" part will go. At least it is a reasonable compromise as it is. B.Wind (talk) 03:48, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Consistent with the rest of Wikipedia how? The infoboxes in I-8, I-12, I-20, I-25, I-30, I-39, I-43, I-55, I-66, I-76 (W), I-76 (E), I-77, I-88 (W), I-94, I-96, I-97, I-99, and many other highways use "near". --NE2 09:21, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
Interesting diversion, NE2. Most (if not all) of the above use "near" when the terminus is in unincorporated territory and "in" when it's within a municipality's city limits. In the former case, they appear to be consistent with the industry standard of naming the closest city. But the article violates this standard on two levels: first, the terminus is in the city of Hialeah; second, it ignores ten other cities that are actually closer to it than Miami (Miami Lakes, Opa-locka, Hialeah Gardens, Medley, Miami Gardens, Virginia Gardens, Miami Springs, Miramar, Doral, North Miami). In addition to Hialeah, Miami Gardens is also over the 100,000 population mark. (talk) 21:08, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
But none of those are principal cities in the way Miami is, i.e. all of the cities you listed are suburbs of Miami and are in the urban area of Miami. What is the name of the metropolitan area within which I-75 ends? --Polaron | Talk 21:12, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
You mean the one that includes Pompano Beach, the one that includes West Palm Beach, or South Florida metropolitan area? (talk) 17:50, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

In the interest of fairness, there is at least one other article that does use "near" - I-80. I think that's a special case, since the terminus is in a different state than the main city. --NE2 13:35, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

I am sure the Florida road workers who smoothed every single mile and the budget committee that approved every single dollar would seriously appreciate it if the actual terminus is used. I am sure the meetings did not continually refer to "Hialeah" as "that town near Miami". Zab (talk) 05:07, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
Hah. Check out the title of the EIS: "Interstate Route 75 from Andytown in Broward County, Florida to the Palmetto Expressway near Miami in Dade County, Florida". And the following description was approved by the FHWA ca. 1968: "From a junction with the Palmetto Expressway, northwest of Miami, via the vicinity of Naples, St. Petersburg, Tampa, Ocala and Lake City, to the Florida-Georgia state line southeast of Valdosta, Georgia." (big PDF) --NE2 00:18, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

Surprise! The end is actually in Miami Lakes. Compare official maps of Miami Lakes and Hialeah. --NE2 00:08, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

"Near" junctions[edit]

I think some of the "near" junction choices are subject to opinion. In general, GPSs don't consider anything more than 10 miles away as "near" - which is also subject to bias. I think all locations should simply reflect the location that it is in as opposed to "near". For example, Miami lakes is actually near north Miami beach, not miami. -- (talk) 11:00, 12 May 2015 (UTC)

For the infobox, the nearest significant city is more useful. The infobox is supposed to provide a general overview; saying the interchange is near Miami is more useful to the general reader than that it's in Miami Lakes. (This case has a city name that's somewhat obvious, but for the I-75/I-40 southern terminus of concurrence, "near Knoxville" is far more useful to the general reader than "in Loudon County".)
For a more detailed list in the body of the article, then we can specify Miami Lakes, Loudon County just west of Farragut, Perrysburg (Ohio), etc. —C.Fred (talk) 13:36, 12 May 2015 (UTC)

Wouldn't that be considered original research? how many miles is considered "near"? -- (talk) 14:18, 12 May 2015 (UTC)

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