Talk:Jefferson Caffery

Bisexual reference

By consensus and being withdrawn by the original editor, the reference to Caffrey's alleged bisexuality has been deleted. For archive purposes, the source in question is linked here: http://www.amigospais-guaracabuya.org/oagoh001.php

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Any supporting evidence for includsion in Category:Bisexual politicians?--Larrybob 20:10, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

I have added the supporting information which was initially noted on the Fidel Castro page.--User:Aaron charles

Thanks -- maybe the information should also be on Welles' page?--Larrybob 21:17, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

If you read the article it doesn't seem like an incredibly solid source. I was unable to find out who the author was with a quick google search (turned up a handful of pages in spanish and a record of someone with that name who has an electrician's license in westchester ny.) Seems like hearsay, since the author doesn't source where the information came from to begin with. What's the wikipedia policy regarding biographical entries and statements like "according to one account" where the account in question isn't any sort of official publication or primary source? Unless a primary source can be obtained, it seems sort of sketchy. --Faits 00:22, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Jefferson Caffery is neither a politican nor actor nor director of the FBI. What does his sexual orientation have to do with this biography? In a biography that is remarkable for stating his accomplishments it seems proper to me to point out any signifcant failings in his career. This sexual orientation statement has no bearing on his career.

Even if true, what is the point of putting it in this biography? I sincerely request that the statement be removed.

Cems1gauthier (talk) 23:55, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

I suggest that the reference to Caffery's alleged sexual behavior be deleted because the source that is cited is hardly a reputable one. It's a rambling, incoherant rant, hardly an academic or journalist source worthy of trust, in my opinion. If the claim cannot be back up with a more reputable source, I think it should be deleted. --Skb8721 (talk) 21:35, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

• Removed. I added it in 2006. I agree with most of this discussion and have removed it. Only if a more reliable source could be provided should it be added back. Thanks. Aaron charles (talk) 04:02, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

More on Caffery's Sexual Orientation

I note that Caffery is referred to as "a discreet homosexual" in Antony Beevor's Paris after the Liberation, 1944-1949, Rev. ed. (Penquin, 2004), p. 109. Beever is a top-notch historian. (See Beever's own Wikipedia entry.) Whether this deserves mention in his article, I don't know. --Skb8721 (talk) 17:07, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

Whatever the standing of Antony Beevor (not Beever) as a popular historian, the named book, Paris after the Liberation, 1944-1949, was co-written with Beevor's wife Artemis Cooper, daughter of British ambassador Duff Cooper. No source is cited, and Artemis is presumably repeating old embassy scuttlebutt she heard from her parents or their friends. After writing that Caffery was "a discreet homosexual," Cooper/Beevor go on to say that "his lover, one of his own staff in the embassy, was slightly less careful to preserve the secrecy of their relationship." Thus even if the allegation is true, it remains gossip, not serious history.MSVanVliet (talk) 00:35, 21 July 2019 (UTC)

I'm sorry if it's bad form, and no doubt this counts as original research and has no place in the article, but my grandmother, Doris Caffery, who was his sister-in-law and knew the man well, states confidently that he was homosexual. And my elderly Catholic Grandmère is the last person I would expect to say it if it weren't so. :)--Molybdenumblue (talk) 19:23, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

The note in Guaracabuya, a Cuban exile blog, is more a direct attack on William Wieland than on Jefferson Caffrey. Wieland is hated by Cuban exiles as being responsible for shaping U.S. Department policy in favor of Fidel Castro during 1958-1959, which led to an arms embargo against the Fulgencio Batista government in March 1958 and the State Dept. ultimatum to Batista on Dec. 17, 1958, that he had to step down. However, for more than fifty years I heard in the Cuban exile community from reputable people repeated comments about the homosexuality of Caffrey, Welles and Wieland. I am a history professor who in 1974, during an interview with Col. Orlando Piedra Negueruela, Batista's former chief of the Bureau of Investigations (the Cuban FBI), he made reference to Wieland's alcoholism and homosexuality. In 1985, Dr. Carlos Piñeiro del Cueto, Grand Master of the Masonic Grand Lodge of Cuba (1949-1959), commented to me during an interview in his home in San Juan, P.R., that the homosexuality of Caffrey and Welles was openly commented in Cuba when they served in diplomatic posts there in the 1930s. According to Dr. Piñeiro, both diplomats had a preference for Afro Cuban men. It is a known fact that in 1944, Welles' reckless homosexual behavior, after he propositioned an African American train porter, led to his dismissal from the State Department. http://www.anb.org/articles/06/06-00696.html Indeed, sexual orientation and conditioning does play a role in how lives and careers are shaped and should be included in biographical accounts. Here is a photo of Caffrey and Welles in the 1930s http://www.latinamericanstudies.org/cuba/33-revolution-11.gif Dr. Antonio R. de la Cova, Univ. of S.C., Columbia — Preceding unsigned comment added by Adelacova (talk • contribs) 12:43, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

A couple of factual errors there. The blurry photo shows Sumner Welles with (most likely) Secretary of State Cordell Hull, not Jefferson Caffrey. Welles's proposition of Pullman porters (there were at least two reported incidents) happened in September 1940 (not 1944) while Welles was very drunk and returning from the funeral for House Speaker William Bankhead. Exactly what happened is unknown, but Franklin Roosevelt, who had known Welles since he was a boy, dismissed the story as arrant calumny. He also dismissed former ambassador Bill Bullitt from State Department duties when Bullitt tried to pressure Secretary Hull and Sen. Owen Brewster to investigate the story of Welles and the porters. Welles resigned in 1943. MSVanVliet (talk) 00:12, 21 July 2019 (UTC)

References

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