Talk:Jerry Masslo

A fact from Jerry Masslo appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 16 August 2020 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that South African refugee Jerry Masslo was granted a state funeral after his murder in Italy in 1989?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2020/August. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Jerry Masslo.

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Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by SL93 (talk) 06:31, 11 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Article history

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... ~~that the racist murder of the South African refugee Jerry Masslo in 1989 led to Italy accepting refugees from non-Eastern European countries?~~ Source: (see article for sourcing)
- ALT1:... ~~that the South African refugee Jerry Masslo was granted a state funeral after his racist murder in Italy in 1989?~~ Source: (see article for sourcing)

Comment: No images available - itwiki has images, but those are specific exceptions in Italian copyright law, which cannot be used on enwiki. Article should be moved from Jerry Essan Masslo to Jerry Masslo. (improved hooks welcome!)

Created by Effeietsanders (talk). Self-nominated at 01:33, 11 June 2020 (UTC). Additional work by Mike Peel and Oulfis[reply]

This is just a comment but I'm not sure if using the word "racist" in the hooks (as in "racist murders") is a good idea. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 09:02, 19 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Narutolovehinata5: Just to clarify: are you concerned that the 'racist' is not an appropriate characterization, or do you feel that although it was racist, it should not be mentioned here (or maybe a third option)? I'm open to suggestions in general, just clearing up and possibly providing further context. effeietsanders 23:38, 23 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

More of the second option. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 23:40, 23 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. Just to clarify my thinking here, and then I'll leave it to someone else to judge: the racist component seemed from the sources/context to be relevant as to how the Italians responded to the murder. The fact that Masslo was South African, makes this even more sensitive. effeietsanders 23:49, 23 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

hiya i'll take this on for review and i think we can get there but it will take a bit of work. here's some issues i'm seeing on a quick look Mujinga (talk) 18:33, 1 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
the hooks need to have a citation attached so it's easy for me to check the claims
every paragraph in the article needs to have at least one citation to a reliable source
obviously this can be an emotive issue but i don't think the word "racist" is suitable here. compared to racist murders such as Murder of Stephen Lawrence this doesn't seem like a hate crime to me, more a robbery gone tragically wrong. if the racism is more "how the Italians responded to the murder" then that isn't so much about the murder itself. ultimately, i don't think the hooks lose much by taking the word out.
QPQ does not seem to be necessary as this is a first nom, just checking that is correct
the page move mentioned above has been done, so that's no longer an issue
earwig gives no copyvio so that's good, paging @Effeietsanders: for a response to the other comments. Mujinga (talk) 18:46, 1 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Mujinga (talk) 19:44, 1 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The nominator has been pinged twice over the last 3 weeks. If these issues are not addressed within a week, by July 28, the nomination will be closed as unsuccessful. Yoninah (talk) 11:28, 21 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Would a better hook be something like this? I think it acknowledges the important factor of race without using the phrase "racist murder" which frankly sounds unidiomatic to me.~ oulfis 🌸(talk) 03:17, 25 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

ALT2:... ~~that the South African refugee Jerry Masslo was granted a state funeral after his murder inspired Italy's first anti-racist demonstrations in 1989? Source: (see article for sourcing)~~

Hiya talk [Oulfis] thanks yes that hook seems better to me, do you want to take on the nomination shared with effeietsanders? My comments made above still stand, the article needs some work and the hook would need to be properly referenced on the relevant sentences before proceeding. Mujinga (talk) 17:31, 25 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thought I should ping - @Oulfis: Mujinga (talk) 17:39, 25 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, I'll see what I can do! ~ oulfis 🌸(talk) 17:40, 25 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Oulfis: Have the issues been addressed? It's been almost two weeks since your last comments here. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 05:50, 6 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Mujinga: It doesn't look like Oulfis is still editing. Unless someone else will adopt this quickly, it should probably be closed as unsuccessful. Yoninah (talk) 00:11, 9 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The original nominator has also not responded despite a talk page message and pings. If there's no response from either them or Oulfis soon this may need to be marked for closure. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 10:37, 9 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Yoninah, Mujinga, Oulfis, Narutolovehinata5, and Effeietsanders: I've had a quick look at the article, and I think the issues raised above have been sorted out, in particular it looks like there's at least one reference per paragraph now. There's an issue with ALT2 in that it gets the funeral and protests in the wrong chronological order, so I suggest this tweak to ALT1 or ALT3, with a preference for ALT3 for the additional context, although it's perhaps a bit long:

ALT1a:... that the South African refugee Jerry Masslo was granted a state funeral after his murder in Italy in 1989? Source: Butticci (2016)
ALT3:... that the South African refugee Jerry Masslo was granted a state funeral, with his murder inspiring Italy's first national anti-racist demonstrations in 1989? Source: Butticci (2016)

I've also added this new reference to the article. Is there anything more needed here? Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 10:40, 9 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

the article has been improved so i'll proceed with a review Mujinga (talk) 21:57, 9 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy compliance:

Adequate sourcing: - Citations have been added but I'd still like to see a citation on the quote in the "Murder" section and the very last paragraph is mostly unreferenced in "Reactions and subsequent developments"
Neutral:
Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: - Offline/paywalled citation accepted in good faith Interesting:

QPQ: None required.

Overall: Still a couple more citations needed. Hook ALT1a is snappy, from hooks ALT2 and ALT3 I marginally prefer ALT2 since "after" reads better than "with" for me, others might disagree. I struck ALT0 and ALT1. Mujinga (talk) 22:06, 9 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry for being a bit AWOL, I've been travelling a little. I verified all the citations etc in the first few sections but didn't finish the murder or reactions section; especially in the reactions section it looks like there are a lot of things which the article is leaving out, and other things that are a little muddled in the details. I don't think I am likely to have time to address these concerns any time in the next two weeks, however, so perhaps it is best to let this nomination pass, unless another editor is interested in taking it up. ~ oulfis 🌸(talk) 23:03, 9 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the improvements Oulfis, let's see then if Mike Peel or effeietsanders (or someone else) wants to complete the nomination Mujinga (talk) 02:16, 10 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Mujinga and Oulfis: The quote is now referenced, and I've added additional inline references to the Reactions section, and removed what I couldn't find references for. This section could definitely be improved, with the removed content re-added with references and more info added, but it should meet policy now, so this should be sufficient for DYK (but not GA). The problem with ALT2 is that "after" implies that the protests happened after his state funeral, but the funeral was on the 28th August, and the protests mentioned here were on the 20th September and 7th October. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 09:07, 10 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Brilliant thanks so the article now is fully referenced and can be approved. Cool that we got there in the end, I've added Oulfis and Mike Peel as contributors since they should get a credit as well. Striking ALT2 per Mike Peel, leaving us with ALT1a and ALT3, both approved. Mujinga (talk) 12:32, 10 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks everyone and sorry for disappearing. I added back some language with some additional sources - but if you feel it's problematic, I'll understand if you remove it, or flag it. I don't like to keep adding La Repubblica - but they are the only one with an easy to search archive to me :). If it means anything, ALT3 probably captures more of the importance of the event. effeietsanders 20:04, 10 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]