Talk:Jewish emancipation

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This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page.

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Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Alec105.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 01:13, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

[Untitled]

Why is this deemed an event in each country rather than a process. Why 1890 in the UK? Lionel de Rothschild had been elected an MP in 1847 and took the oath in 1858. David Salomons became Lord Mayor of London in 1855. So the rights were aquired gradually. Even now, Jews (in the religious sense) cannot be the monarch. --03:11, 17 September 2005 (UTC)

I suspect that it's a religious test on the franchise. I agree that it's rather an artificial divide- Jewish suffrage and Jewish rights are two very different things, and Britain was rather ahead of the curve on the latter. Perhaps the article could make that clearer.--131.111.8.98 08:47, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Also, the article is contradictory--the section on Emancipation Movements claims that Jews were equal citizens in Germany from 1848 until the Nazi regime, while the next section claims that Jews only achieved equal rights in Germany in 1871. As the user above says, this needs to be clearer about whether Emancipation is about enfranchisement, equality before the law, or a complex mixture of many measures.--140.247.152.124 03:43, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Possible contradiction

The map states that the emancipation of Jews in Spain took place in 1930, whereas in a table in the bottom of the article states 1910, the same as Portugal in the map. --Taraborn 22:41, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

The same is true of the UK; 1890 in the image, 1856 in the table. I don't know which is the true date, though. 145.8.173.211 10:32, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

There's another problem I just noted. While France was the first to emancipate Jews, it didn't last. Napoleon removed equality from Jews and it wasn't returned until his restrictions ended in 1818. I'd change it but I'm not sure the best way to visually display why two dates for France would be in the table --User:ithinktiam 21 April 2011 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ithinktfiam (talk • contribs) 22:40, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

Map

Given the date of 1810 the map should definitely say "United Kingdom" not "Great Britain"A Geek Tragedy 00:00, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Also, given that many of the states depicted in the map are late 19th century, while in Greece emancipated Jews in 1830, it should not be depicted as part of the Ottoman Empire.--Michalis Famelis (talk) 01:43, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Emancipation in Britain was in 1856, not 1890, allowing Jews to sit in parliament. Can someone cleverer than me change the date on the map?86.42.198.121 (talk) 23:23, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

USA

Should the USA be in a chart of European nations like this? Also, I wasn't aware we made a law in 1789 to emancipate Jews, it was just part of the founding of the country. Why is this here? It implies that prior to 1789, the USA had discriminatory laws against Jews. --Golbez 06:36, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

The 1789 reference was probably to the no religious test clause of the Constitution. In fact many states had discriminatory laws against Jews until well into the 19th century (Massachusetts had an established church until the 1830s, and New Hampshire required that state officeholders be Protestant until 1877, though this provision seemed to be unenforced for much of that time). Conversely many of the colonies were very liberal towards Jews in practice if not in law; the early Jewish communities of New York, Philadelphia, and Charleston come to mind. So there's really no date you can point to for Jewish emancipation in the US. Beinsane (talk) 21:54, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Referring to either 1789 (when the Constitution established the no religious test clause) or the 1877 date (when the North Carolina no longer required state officeholders to take a Protestant oath) seems to cheapen the notion of "emancipation." When I first saw this entry for Jewish Emancipation, I was shocked at how late the dates were for emancipation of Jews, particularly in the US. But then once I did the research my shock was considerably lessened by the incredibly low standard that has been set for "emancipation." Frankly, I think that entries like this do a great dis-service to history of real discrimination against Jews through history, and cheapens the concept of "emancipation" - a term, which in the US, often has connotations of freedom from slavery (something that has been a reality more than once in the history of Jews in the diaspora and in the Holy Land). There is a big difference from a whole race of people being freed from slavery and a few laws on the books of two states with very small populations of Jews and where there is little evidence of consistent enforcement of these laws. Can I suggest that someone create a stricter definition that doesn't water down "emancipation" quite so terribly? And then adjust the dates accordingly? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.142.181.47 (talk) 04:51, 31 May 2011 (UTC)

In a sense, the 1783 Articles of Confederation could count as emancipatory, as they were the first national charter anywhere (as far as I know) that did not mention religion or rights associated with religion at all. George Washington's 1790 Letter to the Touro Synagogue could be seen as confirming the existence and significance of this hitherto unstated right. Roger.Lustig (talk) 17:43, 24 June 2023 (UTC)

Jewish emancipation

Shouldn't it be that - the "E" should not be capitalized in accordance with WP policy of Capitalization. --Ludvikus (talk) 06:32, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

• Jewish Emancipation → Jewish emancipation —([[Talk:Jewish Emancipation#{{{section}}}|Discuss]])— WP policy requires 2nd word of non-name not to ce capitalized. --Ludvikus (talk) 06:43, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Re-write of lede

The re-write uses much of the existing phrasing and more accurately defines the subject. It also re-orders various mentions chronologically and adds specific links and background. I hope it passes consensus and will collaboratively engage in discussion. Regards,CasualObserver'48 (talk) 08:02, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Confusing Dates

The article states //1796, France, Britain, and the Netherlands had granted the Jews equal rights with gentiles//

But then the summary table at the end appears to contradict this ?

//1856 United Kingdom//

I realise there is difference between the definition of 'Britain' and the 'United Kingdom' and this could explain it perhaps - additionally there is this sentence:

//In some countries, emancipation came with a single act. In others, limited rights were granted first in the hope of "changing" the Jews "for the better." //

But it doesn't (for instance) mention if this included the UK (or Britain).

Essentially it confusing when emancipation came about in the UK (or Britain). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Monowiki (talk • contribs) 08:52, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

Emancipation in the Netherlands and Belgium

Why two dates for the Netherlands? If the Netherlands emanicipated their jews in 1796 (Batavian Republic), and became part of France afterwards (1810-1813), when were jews discriminated again, to have a 2nd emancipation in 1834? idem for Belgium: If their jews were emancipated by the annexation to France (1795), when were jews discriminated again, to have a 2nd emancipation at their independence from the Netherlands in 1830?--Bancki (talk) 10:48, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

Proposed Edits-Wiki 4

We cited "Modern Judaism: An Oxford Guide" as it bears valuable knowledge regarding the "Jewish Emancipation" and provides a primary source of the entire process. Specifically, we will be using segments from Chapter 2, titled "Enlightenment and Emancipation" by Lois C. Dubin. From this resource, we hope to add general information on the Emancipation movement, as well as add information with regards to the other aspects of the movement. While it was greatly seen as a great thing, there were some downsides of the emancipation, which we hope to elaborate on. On top of this addition, we are looking at secondary sources that we have viewed in class to see if we could pull additional information out and of course site what we find in the process. If anyone wants to comment on these changes, please let me know on this Talk Page or on my Talk Page. Alec105 (talk) 00:58, 10 May 2016 (UTC)

Jacob Chobanian & Alec Kohn 206.211.154.160 (talk) 03:02, 3 May 2016 (UTC)

Sweden-Norway

Where does the year 1835 come from? Judereglementet, the laws regulating Jewish civil rights in Sweden was not fully abolished until 1870. The laws were refomred in 1838, but even after that reform the Jews in Sweden still faced many restrictions. Jewish people were still not allowed to settle outside of the towns Stockholm, Malmö and Norrköping without permission from the authorities nor were they not allowed to act as witness in courts just to mention a few examples of the restrictions imposed upon them. So thus legal restrictions were still in force by 1835. [1], [2].

Norwegian Jews were given equal rights in 1851 when the Jødeparagrafen was abolished. Despiite in union with Sweden Norway had separate laws and regulations concerning these matters . Shellwood (talk) 03:46, 8 August 2017 (UTC)

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Table of emancipation dates: a long way still to go

Many of the entries in the "Dates of emancipation" table are misleading, incomplete or incorrect, and suffer from the lack of a clear definition of "emancipation." Apologies for not providing references here, but I'll see what I can find.

There doesn't seem to be a single, consistent definition of "emancipation." For instance, by some standards, Baden was the first to remove 100% of its restrictions, in 1862. By others, Baden was retrograde in that it retained the "Schutz" system (limited right to established residence) long after most other parts of Germany.

• Prussia (1812): This applied only to the parts of Prussia that were not occupied by France or its proxies on the date of emancipation (11 Mar 1812). Other parts of Prussia east of the Rhine had to wait until the 1840s. Moreover, some privileges granted the Jews in 1812 were withdrawn over the next few decades. A 2nd emancipation edict, in 1847, restored many of those privileges/rights.
• Kingdom of Bavaria (1813): a few restrictions were lifted then (actually in 1816, when the 1813 law went into force), but until 1861 the "Schutz" system obtained, much as had been the case in most of Germany through the 18th century, and many other restrictions applied as well. Jews could vote from 1848 onward, and around the same time they were permitted to settle in Nuremberg for the first time since 1499.
• Württemberg (1828): the laws of 1828 were hardly emancipatory; "social engineering" would be a better term. They were intended to reduce the number of Jews engaging in trading and moneylending--a sort of legislation that had been pioneered by Napoleon. Jews in Württemberg achieved legal equality in the 1860s.
• Germany (1871): since the North German Confederation had, according to the table, emancipated its Jews by 1869, and the only states not in the Confederation were Baden, Württemberg, Bavaria and a piece of the Grand Duchy of Hessen, all of which appear earlier in the table, what was there left to be emancipated? 1871 marked the beginning of the Empire, which involved a new, unitary constitution, but there no actual emancipation as a result.
• Germany west of the Rhine: those parts of Prussia, Ducal Hessen and Bavaria that were west of the Rhine used the Napoleonic Civil Code, including equality of all citizens, from 1798 onward--all the way until 1900, when Germany finally standardized its legal system. For instance, the Palatinate, which belonged to Bavaria (see above), did not have the Bavarian "Schutz" system, i.e., limitations on the number of established, "protected" Jews in a town; and the legal status of Jews in the rest of the area west of the Rhine was far more emancipated--especially in the Prussian parts--than on the other side of the river.

There's more, but I'll wait until we have a consistent definition of "emancipation." Roger.Lustig (talk) 17:31, 24 June 2023 (UTC)

Poland doesn't fit into the article

This is a discussion of emancipation during the age of the enlightenment. Whatever rights Jews had in Poland in the 1200s is irrelevant. Paedant (talk) 11:26, 7 February 2024 (UTC)