Talk:Katie Findlay

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Tone issues

Tone issues: possible biased language. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 182.185.144.119 (talk) 03:20, 31 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

It's impossible to revise what you think needs to be fixed if you aren't more specific – what specific language do you think needs to be changed? --IJBall (contribs • talk) 04:04, 31 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Object to most of the recent edit

I object to most of the recent edit – Findlay's Twitter clearly says "they/them/she", not just "they/them". Looper can do whatever they like, but nowhere in that article does Findlay herself say she only identifies as "they/them". Absent a clear unambiguous statement from from Findlay herself – and she controls her Twitter account, so she chooses what is listed there – we should not be changing article pronouns, etc. just because Looper chose to. And "queer" does not automatically = "they/them". We need a clear statement from Findlay that Findlay no longer goes by "she" at all before a change is justified. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 18:27, 22 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I've undone your rollback as it's not compliant with MOS:GENDERID. Findlay uses they/them pronouns, as evidenced by the Looper article, this AmoMama article, and their Instagram profile. You also removed sourced content, that Findlay is queer, which is again sourced to the Looper article. Sideswipe9th (talk) 18:29, 22 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I don't object to the last part of that (notice that I said that I "object to most of the recent edit).

I object to the pronoun changing simply because two articles use they/them, without a definitive statement from Findlay exclusively identifying that way. And you are ignoring that one of two social media accounts lists "they/them/she" – if Findlay had a problem with "she", the Twitter account would have been changed. (And I don't know enough about Instagram – is "they/them/she" an available option?) Regardless, the two social media accounts conflict with each other, and there is no definitive statement from the subject on the matter. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 18:37, 22 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

On Instagram you can put in any pronouns you wish, and in any order you wish.

I also don't really see a dispute here between the two profiles. Even if we are to take the Twitter bio as the sole definitive, pronoun order matters, and putting down "they/them/she" typically means "I prefer to be referred to by they/them, but will accept she".

I'm struggling to see why you're objecting here. We know that both profiles list they/them, and that Twitter goes a step further to also include she. We know that Looper and AmoMama's recent coverage of Findlay use they/them. And we know from the AmoMama article, and the linked YouTube EW panel video that Findlay does not identify as a woman (at the linked timestamp Findlay says "I'm queer. I identify as a femme person and not a woman"). With regards to the first paragraph of GENDERID, I'm satisfied that using they/them and gender neutral terms like actor is perfectly acceptable and warranted in this case. Sideswipe9th (talk) 19:13, 22 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It matters because if she doesn't object to "she" there's no reason to change the article. Right now, we don't even have a definitive statement that Findlay "prefers" "they/them". I always want to see a definitive statement from the subject in matters like this. (And the pronoun list on social media falls well short of this.) Using anything else is speculative – I want to hear the subject's (e.g. Findlay's) actual view on the subject before making substantive changes to articles. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 19:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

IJBall, I understand your point but if we have two official sources that are verified to Findlay, and one says "they/them" and the other says "they/them/she", plus we have reliable sources referring to Findlay with "they/them" pronouns, I think that is the definitive statement. I don't claim to be an expert but I can imagine there are people who use "they/them" pronouns who maybe don't want to have to explicitly make some kind of official "these are my pronouns!" statement beyond passively indicating the appropriate ones on channels that are, in 2023, considered a standard place to indicate pronoun usage.

While I agree that it's not 100% clear how to parse the "they/them/she" tag on Twitter, I think we've reached a point where MOS:GENDERID overrides WP:STATUSQUO: clearly Findlay is actively indicating not to default to "she" and giving interviews where they are being referred to using "they/them" pronouns... one imagines if that were inappropriate or not preferred, Findlay or their team would be on the phone with those outlets to get them to print a correction. —Joeyconnick (talk) 17:57, 3 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]