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"middle class travelling entertainers"
I'd love to know what that was supposed to mean in the context of early twentieth century Britain. Flapdragon 03:05, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
- Simply that they were travelling entertainers who came from middle class backgrounds? I imagine many people might imagine a travelling entertainer to be from the working class i.e. George Formby. Gustav von Humpelschmumpel 10:21, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
That would be quite unusual I suppose, and there might be a good story there. But since there's no clue offered, we're just guessing really. It might well be someone using the term in the American sense of "not rich, not poor, just middling". I'd have thought the lifestyle (as opposed to origins) of a travelling entertainer would be inherently working-class. According to thepeerage.com, "May Augusta Ridgway Bridson [Leo's mother] was born circa 1887 in Mickleton, Gloucestershire, England. She is the daughter of Augustus William Bridson and Maria Emily Montford. She married, thirdly, Charles Parsons. She married, secondly, Hugh Alexander Wilson. Her married name became Tordiffe. She was a dancer. Her married name became Wilson. Her married name became Parsons. May Augusta Ridgway Bridson used the stage-name of Celia Ridgway." I wonder why her birth-date is approximate: I'd have thought that by 1887 even a respectable working-class person would appear in parish registers etc. Also, why was she born in Gloucestershire if it's true, as the Times says, that "the daughter of a wealthy Sussex landowner". Unless anyone knows anything reliable about the family background of the Parsonses I'd say we should probably ditch the adjective. Flapdragon 11:23, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
- Hi I'm not sure why you say that middle class in the sense of "not rich, not poor, just middling" is an American term- I'm English and that's the way I and AFAIK most other people I have ever come across have thought of it. I don't think many (or any) details are known about the father Charles Parsons but more information is definitely availiable on the mother. Her family was very well off - I believe her grandfather Thomas Ridgway Bridson was JP for Lancashire. Gustav von Humpelschmumpel 11:44, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
So really there's no such thing as class structure, just income brackets?! Anyone who has money is upper-class? Well I suppose this isn't really the place for that discussion but I'd have thought it was pretty uncontroversial that, in Britain at least, social class has almost nothing to do with money. Otherwise Wikipedia wouldn't need a whole big article discussing this thorny subject ("In the United Kingdom, social status has historically been linked less directly to wealth than in the United States, and has also been judged by pointers such as accent, manners, place of education, occupation and the class of a person's family, circle of friends and acquaintances", etc). Anyway, it seems that there is some kind of backstory here about Blair's grandmother rejecting a respectable or even privileged background, but quite what that was we don't know. Flapdragon 01:39, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
- Well I agree with the Wikipedia article in that class in the UK is less linked to wealth than in the U.S and is more to do with accent and education and perhaps the background of your parents or even more distant ancestry. I posted some more info on Blair's grandmother here- there are a couple of links there that give some info. Gustav von Humpelschmumpel 11:58, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
Good stuff. Might be worth incorporating some of it here assuming decent sources exist (there are some oddnesses as noted above but its seems sound). Flapdragon 12:55, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
Date of birth
It says in Tony Blair's journey his father joined the army as a private and ended as an acting Major presumably in the Second World War. Shall I add this? He became a conservative during this time and later was actiove in the Conservative Party before wanting to stand as an MP which he was only prevented from doing by sufferinga stroke. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 18.104.22.168 (talk) 10:32, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
I think this disambiguation tag fails on two grounds:
- 1. There is no other notable Leo Blair to begin with, so there's no need to disambiguate at all. Ah, but everyone's heard about Tony Blair's son Leo, I hear you cry. His birth made all the news. He was the first child born to a serving PM of the UK in over 150 years, wasn't he? We have to differentiate his grandfather from him, don't we? Well, no, not here at Wikipedia. We don't have an article on young Leo Blair (aged 12), and there is no reason to suppose we ever will. Unless he grows up and distinguishes himself in some way. We'll deal with that when and if it ever happens. This is an absolutely classic case of someone of whom vast numbers of people have heard, but who has zero wiki-notability in his own right.
- 2. But if one accepts that a disambig tag is required, isn't it whatever makes the subject notable that we use? Sure, this Leo is the more senior of the two Leo Blairs known to history, but it's been argued elsewhere that this Leo deserves an article in his own right because of his scholarly and educational achievements, and most certainly not just because he happens to be the former PM's father or because he's his grandson's grandfather. To use (senior) is really an admission that, had his son not become PM, and then had that son not had a son he named after his own father, very few people would ever have heard of him and nobody would ever have been minded to write an article on him.
I note that Leo Blair is currently a disambiguation page. Since when do we have such pages to distinguish between people who have articles and those who have no reasonable likelihood of ever having one? If Leo Blair junior deserves this sort of recognition here, that's almost an argument for him having his own article. But I don't hear anyone proposing such an article be created; and if they did, they'd be shot down in flames. Search for his siblings Euan, Nicky and Kathryn Blair and you get redirected to Tony Blair. But not so for young Leo. You get a disambiguation page between him and his granddad. The granddad gets the disambig tag, as if some other Leo Blair is the primary owner of the name. But the only other person of that name is a 12-year old schoolboy. We can't have it both ways. -- Jack of Oz [Talk] 19:22, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
- James V, King of Scotland (1512-1542) and Euphemia ELPHINSTONE (1507-?)
- Robert Stewart, 1st Earl of Orkney (1533-1593) m. 1561 Janet KENNEDY (died 1598)
- Jean STEWART m. Patrick Leslie, 1st Lord Lindores (died 1608)
- Robert LESLIE m. Catherine BASSET
- Charles LESLIE (died 1704) m. 1674 William DICK, 2nd Laird of Gran (1643-1694)
- Catherine DICK (1677-?) m. 1698 James CHRISTIE (1675-1749)
- Margaret CHRISTIE (1713-1776) m. 1741 James EWART (c.1707-1799)
- John EWART (1752-1830) m. 1796 Margaret BORLAND (died 1836)
- Jane EWART (c.1799-1869) m. 1819 John FLINT (1786-1855)
- Margaret Charlotte FLINT (1841-1891) m. 1863 Henry MONTFORD (c1816-1882)
- Maria Emily MONTFORD (1864-1944) m. 1885 Augustus William BRIDSON (1849-1933)
- Mary Augusta Ridgway BRIDSON (1886-1969) m. 1927 Charles PARSONS (1877-1970)
- Leo Charles Augustus BLAIR* (1923-2012) m. 1948 Hazel Elizabeth Rosaleen CORSCADEN (1923-1975)
- Anthony Charles Lynton BLAIR (born 1953)—Preceding unsigned comment added by Kittybrewster (talk) • contribs) 07:28, 16 September 2013 (UTC)