Talk:Libs of TikTok

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Frequently asked questions

Q1: Shouldn't Wikipedia remove the identity of the account manager?

A1: Community consensus is that the identity of the account manager should remain up.

Q2: Didn't a Washington Post journalist doxx the account manager?

A2: Reliable sources dispute this characterization and note that The Washington Post journalist only further publicized the identity of the account manager.

Q3: Why is the account described as reposting content in a derogatory manner?

A3: Reliable sources agree that the account editorializes the content it posts, specifically in a derogatory manner.

Q4: The tweets about gender affirming care at hospitals weren't false, and I can prove it!

A4: The Washington Post, USA Today, NPR, and PolitiFact, and other publications have rejected the tweets and claims by Libs of TikTok as false. Now-changed descriptions on hospital websites have been discredited by publications and hospitals as erroneous compared to actual hospital policy.

Q5: This account isn't far-right and is actually only anti-grooming/anti-trans/right-wing/etc.

A5: Right-wing and anti-trans does not preclude far-right. Sourcing from the Washington Post, NBC, USA Today, and Vice have all used far-right to directly describe the account, while other sources state the account retweets far-right content or directly enables far-right actions. See also discussions: [1] [2] [3]

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This article has been mentioned by multiple media organizations:

D'Anne Witkowski (September 14, 2022). "Creep of the Week: Libs of TikTok". Out in Jersey. Retrieved September 17, 2022. Now, if you're old like me, you might be wondering why an account called Libs of TikTok is on Twitter and not, say, only TikTok. All I can tell you is that the world is a multifaceted digital hellscape. Wikipedia explains it better: "Libs of TikTok is a far-right Twitter account owned by former real estate worker Chaya Raichik. The account reposts content created by liberals, leftists, and LGBT people on TikTok and on other social media platforms, often with hostile, derogatory, or mocking commentary."
David Israel (September 5, 2023). "When Did ADL Start Hunting Down Jews?". The Jewish Press. Retrieved June 19, 2024. By the way, the Libs of TikTok Wikipedia page has been raided by anti-Raichik editors who made the anarchist demonstrations on Kaplan Street look like a birthday party. It is possibly the most vicious Wiki edit job I have seen.

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Sources #16, #17 and #18 are misleading

Original research is original research even if you say it isn’t; closing as WP:SEALIONing

Following up on this as I came across an active PDF that utilizes the same 'eligible adolescents' verbiage: https://www.childrenshospital.org/sites/default/files/media_migration/f9a94dd5-cba9-4a58-b355-b012cb6e4e13.pdf

User Dronebogus is clearly misusing the hat template in their closure of my previous thread by attempting to win the argument and simultaneously attack my character. Not only that, but they also make several false claims.

Dronebogus states that "WP:OR does not trump reliable sources"; however, I am not asking for any information to be included in this article. I am asking for misleading sources and information to be excluded. Wikipedia encourages editors to review sources in WP:RS: "Whether a specific news story is reliable for a fact or statement should be examined on a case-by-case basis"

They also altered libsoftiktok's tweet in their original response to me: "makes the claim that they’re offering gender-affirmation surgery to young children dubious." libsoftiktok never made the claim that they're offering these services to children. They stated "young girls", which means adolescents or younger.

Dronebogus, if my claims are 'baseless', why haven't you examined them? All you've responded to me with is your own personal opinion on what a 'young girl' is. Whether or not these girls can "drive and sexually consent" is completely irrelevant, it has nothing to do with whether or not the tweet libsoftiktok made was misinformation. CodingApe (talk) 06:35, 2 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Please Change "Far-right" Affiliations to Conservative Immediately

no Dronebogus (talk) 11:14, 15 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Far-right as defined by wikipedia: "far-right politics" has been used to describe the experiences of fascism, Nazism, and Falangism. Contemporary definitions now include neo-fascism, neo-Nazism, the Third Position, the alt-right, racial supremacism and other ideologies or organizations that feature aspects of authoritarian, ultra-nationalist, chauvinist, xenophobic, theocratic, racist, homophobic, transphobic, or reactionary views"

I have read the archives, the sources and liberal/conservative reporting. I can see no reason why this person is given "far-right" affiliations. I can see no reason why the FIRST SENTENCE says they are far right. I have seen no neutral sources to claim this.

I have seen no evidence for Chaya saying that lesbian people should be harmed or jailed. Not anti-lesbian. I have seen no evidence for Chaya saying that gay people should be harmed or jailed. Not anti-gay. I have seen no evidence for Chaya saying that bi-sexual people should be harmed or jailed. Not anti-bisexual. This is to say, I have seen no EVIDENCE for her being anti-LBG.

I agree there is evidence to show her opinions are against trans ideology. I have seen no evidence for Chaya saying that TRANS people should be harmed or jailed, bombed etc. She disagrees with any violence against other people. The only evidence I have seen is an ideological disagreement. Chaya expresses herself as she speaks her opinions on trans issues, especially those regarding children.

All claims of "far-right" referring to Chaya herself or the page should be REMOVED and replaced with "conservative".

There are currently 2 instances of "far-right" appearing on this wikipedia page, that refer to Chaya.

One is in the first sentence. The second is in the profile card at the top.

Also the first 6 citations are all "far-left" leaning publications. So if you want to keep the far-right tag, please cite "far-left publications have called Chaya far-right", because there is no consensus from neutral journalism. Egdiscounts (talk) 01:57, 15 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Numerous reliable sources covering Libs of TikTok characterize it as far-right. These include The Washington Post, NBC News, USA Today, PinkNews, Yahoo News, Axios, The Times of Israel, and others. Chaya Raichik is also frequently described as far-right by reliable sources. Hist9600 (talk) 03:53, 15 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Please provide citations or update the post to "conservative".

Here is what I found when trying to corroborate your claim with evidence:

Taylor Lorenz has several articles directly attacking Chaya Raichik. I don't think she should be cited because she has made it clear she is a political opponent of Chaya.

Matt Lavietes is the other one to copy her rhetoric His articles speak for themselves as they are far-left. These are the past few articles by Matt:

"Florida school staffer suspended for allowing trans daughter on girls volleyball team"

"N.H. governor signs bills restricting trans health care and sports participation"

"RNC speakers lean into homophobic and transphobic rhetoric"

"11 nonbinary trailblazers to know for Nonbinary Awareness Week"

"Trans swimmer Lia Thomas' Olympic hopes are dashed after a losing legal battle"

At the Washington Post, NBC News, and usa today there is collectively over 40 articles which do not describe her as far left. And there are less than 10% of articles that describe her as far left. The extreme majority do not report on her in this way.

So here is my question:

Do the moderators on this page, you included, accept that if something is reported by the extreme minority on the other side of the political spectrum, that characterization is what we should go with here on wikipedia.

Do you agree we should describe left-leaning people by the extreme right minorities?

Do you agree we should describe right-leaning people by the extreme left minorities?

I think there is enough reason here, to say the characterization as far-right is not shared by majority of journalism. Egdiscounts (talk) 05:38, 15 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I do not understand your arguments. Merely reporting on trans issues doesn't inherently make one far-left, as it's a hot button topic that attracts interest currently. Your characterization of the report as an extreme minority seems incorrect. You state that the first 6 sources are far left, but, while the first two are of LGBT interest publications (which does not make them far left but you could concede bias from that perspective), one is a centrist israeli publication, one currently has ties to the right-leaning Hungarian government (!), one is a mainstream television network considered left wing, and one is a Jewish interest news site. I don't really see how all of them could be considered far-left leaning publications, unless one considers far left to be any viewpoint that expresses explicit pro transgender views. CloakedFerret (talk) 09:13, 15 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Well, he called these sources far-left, when they should just be called left-wing. But can you address his main point, which is that there may be political bias in this article, and also that there is some internal inconsistency in this article when you link Chaya to the far right, when the article on the far right is about fascism, and not harp on the fact that he used exaggerated terms like far-left? 100.16.156.64 (talk) 03:35, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Far-right should be removed, or at least some nuance added

Sources that supposedly call this far-right, in the most well represented articles, do not.

Washington Post? They say Right-wing

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/04/19/libs-of-tiktok-right-wing-media/

Politico? They say Conservative.

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/03/13/desantis-libs-tiktok-feud-00146843

And the Washington Post skews left. In widely circulated sources, only PinkNews seems to be saying this consistently, and they skew too far left to be reliable.. To only call this "far-right" is in basic denial of facts. JustAPoliticsNerd (talk) 06:14, 27 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

JustAPoliticsNerd, there are currently 160 references to reliable sources in this article. Do any of these sources argue that Libs of TikTok is not far right? Do any assign a political position that is not fully equivalent to "far right?" Have you been able to identify any reliable, independent sources that contest the "far right" characterization? If so, post links to reliable independent sources that refute the "far right" claim. Otherwise, it will stay. Cullen328 (talk) 06:30, 27 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

While WaPo is a bit more weighty than Pink News (which some caution needs to be taken with WP:PINKNEWS), there are other RS calling her "far right" including NBC news. Another option would be to label her "conservative" while noting that she has been described as far right. Zenomonoz (talk) 09:02, 27 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Of those 160 refrences, 6 are used to call this persona far-right.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/09/02/lgbtq-threats-hospitals-libs-of-tiktok/

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/allyn-walker-professor-paedophile-virginia-b1960427.html

https://newrepublic.com/article/167882/rising-right-wing-lgbtq-threats-violence-tiktok-tucker-carlson

https://www.jpost.com/international/article-704798

https://unherd.com/2022/04/why-libs-of-tiktok-terrifies-the-media/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2021/11/24/allyn-walker-odu-professor-resigns/

There's the six links I clicked on when I went into the sources list and clicked on six random links. Four identify it within the broader right-wing political sphere (comparisons to Tucker Carlson, Ben Shapiro), and two are talking about it for outing a professor who depended pedophilia. Not a single one called it far-right, or seemed to consider it far-right.

The six sources used to the end of calling Libs of Ticktock far-right are cherrypicked, and not all of them are even reliable. JustAPoliticsNerd (talk) 22:14, 27 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Unreliable sources probably should be removed. Zenomonoz (talk) 00:54, 28 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This has been discussed already.

Talk:Libs_of_TikTok/Archive_7#LOTT_is_not_far-_right

Talk:Libs_of_TikTok/Archive_7#If_LOTT_is_categorized_as_Far-Right_why_aren't_the_people_they_re-post_categorized_as_Far-Left?, Bluethricecreamman (talk) 22:20, 27 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I am not necessarily saying that far-right needs to be removed, but it needs to be at least qualified. JustAPoliticsNerd (talk) 22:33, 27 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There is a list of 6 sources on the page that all call her far-right.

I'll relist them here as well.

https://www.advocate.com/news/2022/12/27/libs-tiktoks-chaya-raichik-spews-anti-lgbtq-bile-fox-interview-tucker-carlson

https://www.thepinknews.com/2022/11/23/jk-rowling-libs-of-tik-tok-twitter/

https://www.timesofisrael.com/twitter-activist-behind-far-right-libs-of-tiktok-revealed-to-be-us-orthodox-jew/

https://www.euronews.com/2022/05/02/libs-of-tiktok-twitter-account-is-targeting-lgbtq-teachers-in-the-u-s

https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-news/open-season-lgbtq-people-far-right-celebrates-liberation-twitter-rcna54542

https://www.jta.org/2022/04/19/politics/the-twitter-activist-behind-the-far-right-libs-of-tiktok-is-an-orthodox-jew-does-that-matter

There is no good reason to qualify the statement the account is far-right without twisting yourself something ridiculous. Bluethricecreamman (talk) 23:58, 27 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As I mentioned, the first 6 sources random sources I clicked on from this articles own sources pointedly don't call it far right, not to mention many others. Those six are cherrypicking. JustAPoliticsNerd (talk) 01:41, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Here is a table of the first 30 sources as per this revision.


#	Source	Quote	Far-right Description
1	https://www.advocate.com/news/2022/12/27/libs-tiktoks-chaya-raichik-spews-anti-lgbtq-bile-fox-interview-tucker-carlson	The woman behind the far-right, anti-LGBTQ+ social media account Libs of TikTok finally showed her face in an interview with Tucker Carlson that premiered Tuesday.	directly far-right
2	https://www.thepinknews.com/2022/11/23/jk-rowling-libs-of-tik-tok-twitter/	JK Rowling ‘likes’ tweet by far-right, anti-LGBTQ+ Libs of TikTok	directly far-right
3	https://www.timesofisrael.com/twitter-activist-behind-far-right-libs-of-tiktok-revealed-to-be-us-orthodox-jew/	Twitter activist behind far-right ‘Libs of TikTok’ revealed to be US Orthodox Jew	directly far-right
4	https://www.euronews.com/2022/05/02/libs-of-tiktok-twitter-account-is-targeting-lgbtq-teachers-in-the-u-s	In Los Angeles, a teacher who is transgender went on their TikTok account to denounce the so-called 'Don’t Say Gay' bill in the United States. That video was then shared by a far-right Twitter account called ‘Libs of Tiktok’ to its more than 1.1 million followers, resulting in a dramatic uptick in the number of death threats and insults they received online.	directly far-right
5	https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-news/open-season-lgbtq-people-far-right-celebrates-liberation-twitter-rcna54542	Far-right figures appear to be testing Twitter's boundaries for anti-LGBTQ speech... The day before, within hours of Musk's Twitter acquisition, the far-right account Libs of TikTok — which has over 1.4 million Twitter followers and has largely built its following by mocking liberals — tweeted out a post with the word "groomer" written over a dozen times.	directly far-right
6	https://www.jta.org/2022/04/19/politics/the-twitter-activist-behind-the-far-right-libs-of-tiktok-is-an-orthodox-jew-does-that-matter	The Twitter activist behind the far-right ‘Libs of TikTok’ is an Orthodox Jew. Does that matter?	directly far-right
7	https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jun/13/drag-queen-event-stormed-men-believed-proud-boys-group-california	This weekend’s story time event was shared by Libs of TikTok, a rightwing anti-LGBTQ+ social media account with more than a million followers, SFGate reported.	right-wing
8	https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/lgbtq-activists-libs-of-tik-tok-shopify-1.6662359	The Ottawa-based e-commerce company Shopify Inc. says it won't withdraw its services from the online store of multiple anti-LGBTQ social media accounts despite some public outcry. After starting out with a Twitter account that now has 1.5 million followers, Libs of TikTok-branded accounts have proliferated across social media sites including Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, Telegram, Donald Trump's Truth Social and more.	anti-lgbt
9	https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/3774664-harassment-reported-at-gender-affirming-care-providers-in-21-states/	The report, released on Tuesday, pointed to posts from the right-wing, anti-LGBT Twitter account “Libs of TikTok” and right-wing political commentator Matt Walsh, who is known for his opposition to the transgender community.	right-wing
10	https://www.libsoftiktok.com/p/from-libs-of-tiktok-creator-to-author	WP:SPS....	WP:SPS....
11	https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/internet/boston-childrens-hospital-warns-employees-far-right-online-harassment-rcna43376	Boston Children's Hospital warns employees over far-right online harassment campaign... after far-right activists on social media began targeting the hospital with false claims about its treatment of young transgender people.	grouped with far-right
12	https://www.npr.org/2022/08/26/1119634878/childrens-hospitals-are-the-latest-target-of-anti-lgbtq-harassment	In many cases, they have been the subject of posts by a Twitter account called Libs of TikTok, as well as stories in conservative media outlets casting gender-affirming care as child abuse and mutilation... In some cases, events and figures publicized by Libs of TikTok have been targeted offline by far-right extremists known for brawling.	anti-lgbt, grouped with/enabling far-right
13	https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2022/06/14/far-right-influencers-hyped-coeur-dalene-pride-patriot-front-showed	Far-Right Influencers Hyped Coeur d’Alene Pride Before Patriot Front Showed Up... Far-right propaganda commonly zeroes in on specific, sensational aspects of LGBTQ culture, frequently misrepresenting it while clipping out important context. Twitter users subsequently boosted Libs of TikTok’s thread about the event thousands of times.	grouped with far-right
14	https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2022/04/chaya-raichik-libs-tiktok-groomer-tweets.html	The key ingredient in Raichik’s early success on a topic with a relatively short shelf life was shamelessly tagging alt-right and far-right heavy hitters on Twitter, a strategy she continues to use to this day.	associating with far-right
15	https://www.thetimes.com/business-money/technology/article/libs-of-tiktok-twitter-provocateur-gives-republicans-new-weapon-in-war-on-liberals-tfrrvh9rf	Mocking liberal “hypocrisy” and “wokeness”, Libs of TikTok had amassed about 65,000 followers. With Rogan’s endorsement, however, the account was catapulted into conservative superstardom. Libs of TikTok’s following soared to more than 920,000 yesterday, and is now regularly cited by Republican politicians and right-wing commentators.	right-wing
16	https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/09/02/lgbtq-threats-hospitals-libs-of-tiktok/	The campaign is led by Libs of TikTok, a Twitter account with more than 1.3 million followers run by a former Brooklyn real estate agent named Chaya Raichik, whose posts are frequently cited by Fox News’s Tucker Carlson and other right-wing media figures.	right-wing
17	https://www.thepinknews.com/2022/08/17/libs-of-tiktok-boston-childrens-hospital-trans/	A children’s hospital has been met with a wave of death threats and abuse after a “misinformation” campaign by right-wing media and Libs of TikTok.	right-wing
18	https://www.bostonherald.com/2022/08/17/boston-childrens-hospital-doctors-facing-violent-threats-after-far-right-groups-spread-misinformation/	"Boston Children's Hospital doctors facing violent threats after far-right groups spread 'misinformation'	grouped with far-right
19	https://socialblade.com/twitter/user/libsoftiktok
20	https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2022/08/26/childrens-national-hospital-trans-hysterectomies/	n influential right-wing Twitter account published a recording that falsely suggested the hospital is performing hysterectomies on transgender children	right-wing
21	https://www.forbes.com/sites/madelinehalpert/2022/08/31/boston-childrens-hospital-bomb-threat-how-right-wing-media-escalate-harassment-of-lgbtq-friendly-places/?sh=77d7719e44d7	The Boston Children’s Hospital threats started after Libs of TikTok posted a video on August 11 of a doctor at Boston Children’s Hospital talking about gender-affirming hysterectomies, claiming the procedure was being offered to “young girls,” though the doctor did not say the procedure was offered to children. The post has been retweeted by conservative influencers and liked thousands of times. The account, operated by Chaya Raichik, shares anti-LGBTQ content and has become influential in conservative media. Some far-right Republicans in recent months have increasingly sought to restrict trans people’s access to gender-affirming care, which includes a range of treatments such as hormone therapy and counseling.	anti-lgbtq, right-wing, associating with far-right
22	https://www.thepinknews.com/2022/08/18/libs-of-tiktok-suspended-facebook/	Notorious anti-LGBTQ+ page Libs of TikTok was temporarily banned on Facebook and the person behind it locked out of the account. The right-wing platform is notorious for directing its followers to pro-LGBTQ+ “liberals” – who owner Chaya Raichik often calls – who are then routinely harassed.... tends to retweet from far-right sources	notorious right-wing, retweets far-right sources
23	https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/04/19/libs-of-tiktok-right-wing-media/	Videos shared from the account quickly find their way to the most influential names in right-wing media. The account has emerged as a powerful force on the Internet, shaping right-wing media, impacting anti-LGBTQ+ legislation and influencing millions by posting viral videos aimed at inciting outrage among the right... shaping right-wing media, impacting anti-LGBTQ+ legislation and influencing millions by posting viral videos aimed at inciting outrage among the right.	anti-lgbtq, right-wing, enabling far-right doxing
24	https://www.dailydot.com/debug/libs-tiktok-instagram/	tagged with far-right	far-right
25	https://www.dailydot.com/debug/libs-of-tiktok-childrens-national-hospital/	tagged with far-right,On Thursday, Chaya Raichik, the person behind the right-wing account Libs of TikTok, tweeted audio of a conversation she had with employees at Children’s National Hospital that set off a weekend-long firestorm	right-wing, far-right
26	https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/09/20/social-media-influencers-election-fraud/	Meanwhile, several among the 77 have retweeted Chaya Raichik to their large audiences, helping fuel the meteoric rise of her Twitter account, Libs of TikTok. The account, which soared from fewer than 1,000 followers in early 2021 to 1.3 million today, criticizes teachers, medical providers and others who serve transgender children and teens. It was recently suspended after a post led to death threats against providers at Boston Children’s Hospital, and a bomb threat caused the hospital to be put on lockdown.	disinformation, right-wing
27	https://www.fox32chicago.com/news/chicago-childrens-hospital-ups-security-after-libs-of-tiktok-social-post	An account called "Libs of TikTok" has criticized children's hospitals nationwide, including Lurie's, for their care of transgender young people.	anti-trans
28	https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/crime/colorado-springs-club-q-drag-show-b2229316.html	Meanwhile, far-right activist groups and organisation... Right-wing personalities with influential social media channels, such as Libs of Tik Tok	right-wing, associated with far-right
29	https://vice.com/en/article/schools-report-bomb-threats-following-libs-of-tiktok-anti-lgbtq-posts/	Raichik dined with former president Donald Trump earlier this year, and members of Congress routinely engage with Libs of TikTok posts—as do far-right groups, including neo-Nazis.	anti-lgbtq, associated with far-right
30	https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/internet/libs-tiktok-x-chaya-raichik-bomb-threat-twitter-of-libsoftiktok-rcna102784	Libs of TikTok is part of a right-wing ecosystem on social media that has targeted transgender people, drag performers, LGBTQ advocates and others in recent years.	anti-trans, rightwing

I count 6 of 30 directly calling LoT far-right, another 4 of 30 grouping LoT with far-right accounts, 6 stating she associates with, retweets, or enables far-right groups, 2 articles discussing her getting banned that are tagged far-right. 18 of the initial 30 all indicate far-rightedness, a majority of the sourcing. The remainder often discuss her as right-wing, which does not preclude, overshadow, or exclude far-right. also, when she tweets, bomb threats and proud boys follow. to not point out she is far-right is a disservice to the term, and a failure of Wikipedia to provide WP:NPOV by minimizing the significant coverage of her far-rightedness. Bluethricecreamman (talk) 02:25, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Update to the account suspensions section

Libs of TikTok was officially banned from BlueSky two days ago. In my opinion, since her other account suspensions are mentioned in the account suspensions section, this should be included. The source is here.^[1] 2600:1003:B13D:667A:0:16:B3F2:D601 (talk) 23:46, 5 December 2024 (UTC) 2600:1003:B13D:667A:0:16:B3F2:D601 (talk) 23:46, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

^ https://www.advocate.com/business/bluesky-libs-of-tiktok-suspended

[1] ttps://www.advocate.com/business/bluesky-libs-of-tiktok-suspended

[1]