Talk:List of banana cultivars

Format of names

The Simmonds and Shepherd naming system long preceded the current ICNCP, which now regulates the names of cultivars and cultivar groups. So the style used in the literature doesn't match the Code. E.g. names of Groups should have a capital G in the word "Group", such as "AAB Group". There also isn't provision for subgroups in the Code, so it's not clear how these should be styled. Further the current list of "entities" within the Groups don't make it clear whether these are "subgroups" or cultivars.

As another example, this source gives the name Musa (AAA group) 'Dwarf Cavendish'. However, the text makes clear that this isn't a clone but a group of clones. For example, it has " 'Dwarf Cavendish' cultivars 'Basrai' and 'Srimanti' ", but one cultivar, e.g. 'Basrai', can't belong to another cultivar 'Dwarf Cavendish'. The implication is that "Dwarf Cavendish" is a group or subgroup of cultivars, not a cultivar, in which case single quotes should not be used in its name.

It's not clear to me how to fix these issues. The nomenclature of banana cultivars is very confused! Peter coxhead (talk) 15:37, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

That is confusing - so are the subtitles "both wild banana plants and cultivars" under many groups, as cultivars are per definition all cultivated plants! DrAzF (talk) 14:01, 16 April 2014 (UTC)

So what is the best solution? If the "AAA group" is not a Group in the sense of the ICNCP, i.e. not exclusively a cultivar group, then it can include both wild and cultivated AAA triploids. The title of the article is then wrong, but the list is correct. What is your view on the best way forward, i.e. should the genome groups be treated as ICNCP Groups (and hence necessarily cultivar groups) or as outside the ICNCP?

Also is "Dwarf Cavendish" a cultivar, or merely a name for some group (small "g") of cultivars?

Peter coxhead (talk) 08:03, 17 April 2014 (UTC)

I'm not sure what the best solution would be. In the latest CABI publication I have read on the subject (Robinson, J. C. and V. G. Saúco (2010) Bananas and Plantains (Crop Production Science in Horticulture). CAB International. ISBN-13: 978-1845936587) the authors divide edible Musa into "Major genomic groups and cultivars in world use".

Something similar may be appropriate:

AA Group: contains both wild Musa acuminata plants, and the following cultivars - 'Sucrier' ... and 'Pisang Ambon Putih' ...

AAA Group:

Gros Michel subgroup: main cultivar 'Gros Michel' (Syn. 'Pisang Ambon' in Malaysia) - two named mutants: 'Highgate' and 'Cocos' ... tall plants, etc.

Cavendish subgroup: made up of many cultivars, synonyms and mutants, some recognised as distinct cultivars (e.g. 'Dwarf Cavendish' and 'Williams'), others as somatic mutations (e.g. 'Grand Nain' and 'Israeli Grand Nain') - and some synonyms of others. All originating through mutations from an original Cavendish clone. Classified based on morphological differences and in Robinson & Saúco (2010), divided into 4 height divisions:

1. Dwarf Cavendish Type: main cultivar 'Dwarf Cavendish' (Syn. 'Canary Banana', 'Dwarf Chinese', 'Basrai' (India), 'Governor' (West Indies), and 'Enano' (Latin America)) - shortest subgroup within the Cavendish subgroup, etc.
2. Giant Cavendish Type: main cultivars 'Mons Mari' (Queensland), 'Williams' (New South Wales & South Africa), 'Grand Nain' (Central America and Israel) and 'Giant Governor' (West Indies)
3. Robuta Type: 'Tall Mons Mari' (Australia), 'Poyo' (West Indies and West Africa), 'Valery' (Latin America) and 'Americani' (Reunion) ... generally taller than Giant Cavendish
4. Lactan Type: syn. 'Pisang Masak Hijau' (Malaysia), 'Monte Cristo' (Puerto Rico) and 'Giant Fig' (West Indies)... very tall plants

'Red' and 'Green Red' subgroup ...

Other AAA cultivars: East African Highland Bananas (lots of cultivars & distinct beer & cooking types); 'Ibota' (Syn. 'Yangambi Km 5' and 'Caipira' (Brazil))

I think something should be said about each cultivar, and that some cultivars deserve their own article or at least a special mention (i.e. 'Gros Michel' due to its role in early commercial banana production in Latin America). At the very least, a reference has to be supplied for each cultivar listed, so that there is a little more information available than the name (i.e. I've never come across a report of 'Pink French banana' or 'Tiger banana' as cultivars)

DrAzF (talk) 12:51, 17 April 2014 (UTC)

Your suggestions seem fine to me. I don't have time to work in this myself at present, but feel free to edit the article yourself.

(As an aside, it's not clear to me whether names like 'Pisang ...' are acceptable as cultivar epithets under the ICNCP. Article 21.20 prohibits names in which the cultivar epithet contains the common name of the genus or species. "Pisang" is just the Malay word for banana, but I'm not sure if it is used to refer to the genus or just plants with edible fruits + the fruits themselves. It does seem that if there were a cultivar called "Pink French banana", the cultivar epithet would have to be just 'Pink French'.)

Peter coxhead (talk) 17:21, 17 April 2014 (UTC)

Alternative/common names of banana varieties

Would it be acceptable to include alternative/local/common names of different varieties of banana? I'm looking at page 7 of this document: http://webpac.uvi.edu/imls/aes_uvi/fb11/banana.pdf Tdannecy (talk) 17:17, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

In principle, yes. However, it's important to cross-check with different sources where possible, since they don't always equate the same names and there is a lot of confusion. The most authoritative source seems to be Promusa's cultivar checklist. If you look up "Apple", for example, the name is used for cultivars in the Silk subgroup, and for the cultivar 'Silk', but is also used for quite different cultivars in different genome groups. So it may be correct to say that in the Virgin Islands, the Silk subgroup includes bananas known as (Pisang) Rasthali, Apple, etc., but it isn't correct to say that the name "Apple" is always used for a banana cultivar in the Silk subgroup. Peter coxhead (talk) 17:59, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:List of banana cultivars/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

List needs to be completed. Puffin Let's talk! 14:45, 11 September 2011 (UTC)

Substituted at 18:05, 5 June 2016 (UTC)

Confusion about "Masak Hujau" and "Lacatan banana" in the Cultivars-section

The AAA "Masak Hujau" cultivar and the AA Group "Lacatan banana" cultivar both link to the same page in the Cultivars-section. The linked page explicitly mentions in the overview, that these two are not to be confused with each other. I am not an expert of biology, so I don't really know what to do, but can please someone fix this? --Worstbull (talk) 16:36, 26 September 2016 (UTC)

What is the name of striped banana......???

See google search results — Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.240.16.249 (talk) 04:50, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

Indonesian and Malaysian names

@Materialscientist: These were good faith edits, just not cited for some reason. This IP number (User:111.220.69.27) has used refs elsewhere so I don't know why not. I will suggest he/she do so here. Invasive Spices (talk) 9 December 2021 (UTC)

Parthenocarpy does not imply Sterility

Many parthenocarpic crops are totally fertile. It just means that the flowers will develop fruit without fertilisation. Seedless fruit from fertile perfect flowers can occur from self incompatibility too. 84.71.61.234 (talk) 03:13, 1 January 2024 (UTC)