Talk:Lynching of L. Q. Ivy

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Discrepancy

@Jacona: The article states, "While Ivy continued to maintain his innocence", yet one of the sources cited says he confessed to the crime. Magnolia677 (talk) 15:12, 16 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Magnolia677, Read all the references. I have. Both statements are made in reliable sources. There is room for discussion on that point. — Jacona (talk) 15:21, 16 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Magnolia677, Thanks for taking an interest! There is a load of information, and like a lot of information from that time period, the purveyors of information were extremely biased. I may have gotten some things wrong, and it certainly could use expansion and improvement!!! — Jacona (talk) 15:24, 16 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Magnolia677, As I was working this up, I continually found contradictory sources. Roulhac's article, which is sometimes described as a foundational source for the subject, even got his name wrong. There is also some confusion between Rocky Ford, MS and Rocky Ford, GA. — Jacona (talk) 15:40, 16 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I have looked at three of the sources cited:

[1] - a 1925 newspaper article published after the event.
[2]
[3] - a self-published book from 2017.

Two of the sources state he confessed to the crime, and none of the sources--unless I missed it--state that he professed his innocence. This in no way lessens the brutality of his death, but it does seem an important detail to add to the lead...that this was a horrible consequence of his own crime. Magnolia677 (talk) 19:54, 16 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Magnolia677, You missed it, and it was not easy to miss. First off, he was never tried for a crime, so it is only an accusation, the fact that a bunch of people decided to kill him without a trial does not in any way "prove" his guilt. Next, in Roulhac's eyewitness story in the Memphis Press-Scimitar, Roulhac states that he was yelling that he didn't do it as he burned to death. In Prince, the victim's father told the mob his daughter wasn't sure it was him. In Rucker, his "confession" was according to Bradshaw, who also said he wasn't even at the murder. In every single case that says he confessed, it was stated by White apologists who had a vested interest in justifying their own illegal actions, or the illegal actions of their constituency. The one witness we can somewhat trust to be impartial, Roulhac, stated that he went to death confessing his innocence. — Jacona (talk) 21:33, 16 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Magnolia677, Even if he had confessed, it was after torture. We know today that confessions obtained under torture are notoriously unreliable. When someone crushes a mans testicles with lemon squeezers, they are likely to say anything to get them to stop. — Jacona (talk) 21:44, 16 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Other potential sources

On the impact on the anti-lynching movement:

Dark Journey: Black Mississippians in the Age of Jim Crow, by Neil R. McMillen.
Bibliography on pages 47-49 of Silence Descends: Lynchings and Their Aftermath in Lafayette and Union Counties, Mississippi by Jonathan Smith.

On testimonies of Russ/Rush Scott and J.D. Ivy and Bessie Gaines' father, and on torture:

The Lynching of L. Q. Ivy by LaReeca Rucker
Mississippi and the Mob
"Mississippi and the Mob": An Analysis

— Grand'mere Eugene (talk) 18:50, 4 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]