Talk:Mary, mother of Jesus

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August 4, 2007 WikiProject A-class review Not approved

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Why no infobox?[edit]

Most other biblical figures have one, incl. Saint Joseph (Mary's most direct counterpart, I would think). Can we get going the discussion the comment at the beginning of the article requires? Deus vult (aliquid)! Crusadestudent (talk) 21:18, 28 May 2016 (UTC)

I agree that we should have an Infobox for Mary. CookieMonster755 ๐Ÿ“ž โœ‰ โœ“ 18:30, 31 May 2016 (UTC)
Oh, please don't. They are for factual data, of which almost none exists as to her life. Wholly inappropriate, which is why we've never had one. Johnbod (talk) 03:29, 1 June 2016 (UTC)
Just a note, Saint Joseph uses {{infobox saint}}, which puts more of a focus on things like feast days and other non-biographical information. clpo13(talk) 04:37, 1 June 2016 (UTC)
I support infobox saint. CookieMonster755 ๐Ÿ“ž โœ‰ โœ“ 22:07, 1 June 2016 (UTC)
I support {{infobox saint}} as well. Jujutsuan (formerly Crusadestudent) (talk | contribs) 22:14, 1 June 2016 (UTC)

โ”Œโ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”˜ FWIW, there was a discussion about the infobox that is archived at Talk:Mary, mother of Jesus/Archive 4#Infobox and the section immediately after that. I see no consensus for removal. It was removed here by an editor who no longer edits. Here Johnbod placed the warning not to add the infobox; perhaps he can explain why. Sundayclose (talk) 22:30, 1 June 2016 (UTC)

That is standard Arbcom-case-following treatment for a busy and often contentious article. I doubt I was aware of the previous discussion, some years before. The box as shown in that section is at least short, and not cluttered up, but also shows the uselessness of a box here. No dates for either birth or death for example - but better that than guesses. I still strongly oppose one, but if we must have one, let it be that. Johnbod (talk) 03:45, 2 June 2016 (UTC)

It looks to me like there's consensus for infobox saint. I'm moving the one from down below. May I close this discussion? Jujutsuan (talk | contribs) 03:52, 2 June 2016 (UTC)

Sure, feel free to close it up. CookieMonster755 ๐Ÿ“ž โœ‰ โœ“ 04:34, 2 June 2016 (UTC)
I see no consensus here; there are very few respondents and the timeframe in which this discussion was 'decided' was too short. Let's be clear: there already is an infobox and it is present in the correct place in the article. The main discussion point should be whether we place an explicitly Christian infobox at the very top of an article which deals with an objective perspective of Mary (covering all different views, both Christian and non-Christian). I think the answer is categorically no. I cannot see a consensus for overturning that view. We do have a section covering specific religious perspectives of Mary; Christian as well as Islamic and other perspectives. There are also multiple sub-articles which deal with different Christian denominational views of Mary. I have moved the infobox back to its longstanding position in the article with the view that further discussion is needed... pending a real consensus it should remain in that place in the article. -- Hazhk (talk) 00:07, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
I'll set the discussion going again. Perhaps a slightly more neutral infobox could be placed in the lead? Sundayclose notes that such a box was present in the past, before being removed without much discussion. We could take the icon that is already there, place a box around it and add a few (secular) biographical details (which details could be decided here). See the Jesus article as an example. A Saint infobox is inappropriate for reasons that should be obvious if one takes a cursory look at the lead.-- Hazhk (talk) 00:30, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
Rather than creating a home-made infobox, why not use Template:Infobox person? That's certainly a neutral infobox. It's the infobox used for Jesus. There might need to be some discussion and agreement about specific content, but that choice for infobox should not be controversial. Sundayclose (talk) 00:43, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
Support {{infobox person}} on top, very brief, keeping the Christian one where it is but where I didn't see it without this discussion, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:15, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
Infobox person is the template I had in mind. I support adding it. Hazhk (talk) 10:12, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

โ”Œโ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”˜ Everybody please keep in mind that the "Christian infobox" also lists information relevant directly to Islam. Jujutsuan (talk | contribs) 18:47, 5 June 2016 (UTC)

I agree with @Gerda Arendt: here. I would also support a infobox person, with brief information and a infobox image. CookieMonster755 ๐Ÿ“ž โœ‰ โœ“ 14:53, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
I've created a provisional infobox, following recommendations here. I have moved the image previously used in the lead. The artwork I have chosen for the infobox has been judged one of the finest files in Wikimedia Commons. Suggestions for improving the infobox are welcomed. -- Hazhk (talk) 18:26, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
AArgh! Change the image, it's horrible, with the subject way too small! FPs are selected on purely technical grounds. We have zillions of better images on Commons, but a classic close-up icon must represent the most standard traditional representation. Johnbod (talk) 02:44, 10 June 2016 (UTC)

Marianism[edit]

Marianism should probably redirect to a section here, and be covered in sufficient detail in that section. Presently, the word does not even appear in this article, and it redirects to Mariology, which is something completely different (academic study, not religious/spiritual faith). โ€‰โ€”โ€ฏSMcCandlish โ˜บ โ˜ ยขโ€ƒโ‰ฝสŒโฑทา…แดฅโฑทสŒโ‰ผโ€ƒ 08:27, 29 August 2016 (UTC)