Talk:Mary Tudor, Queen of France
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Duke of Milan
<<As a young girl the Duke of Milan tried to arrange a marriage between her and his young son Massimiliano Sforza>> Can we be more precise about when the Duke of Milan was a young girl?
Anyone else think this article should be moved to something like Mary Tudor (Queen Consort of France) or Mary Tudor (daughter of Henry VII) and Mary Tudor made into a disambiguation page, or even redirected to Bloody Mary who would then have a disambiguation link at the top of her page? I think you'd be hard pressed to find someone on the street who would think of the Duke of Suffolk's wife when presented with the name "Mary Tudor" before thinking of England's last Catholic Queen regnant. If I don't hear from anyone within three days, I'll set about disambiguating.
Incidentally, Bloody Mary's page does already have a link to this page under "See Also", but this seems a little odd to me as this isn't a page really connected with her at all (other than a brief mention that she was named after this Mary Tudor); rather, I'd guess someone knew that a little disambiguation was needed but wasn't quite sure of the best way to go about it.Binabik80 00:02, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)
- My apologies - I missed the bit about three days. I thought this was such a good idea that I've already implemented it tonight. Ian Cairns 02:32, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)
This article gives her birth date as March 28, 1496. However, tutorhistory.org gives it as March 18. This can't be an Old Style-New Style difference, because the New Style calendar was not in use anywhere in Mary's lifetime. And besides, the (theoretical) difference would be only 9 days in 1496. Are we to take it that there is some doubt about the date of her birth? Rbraunwa 16:35, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
Relations with Anne Boleyn
Part of the article reads:
- In France was where Mary and Anne Boleyn became good friends. Mary was left with only Anne after her other ladies in waiting left her. It is possible Anne stayed because King Henry VIII had taken a liking to her. Mary confided many secrets to Anne, one of which was that she was in love with Charles Brandon. Their friendship ended when Anne became Henry VIII's wife. Mary felt sorry for the Queen Catherine of Aragon, some say because she too had to leave the love of her life for marriage.
Does anyone know if the references cited support this (unfortunately, I haven't read them)? Is it really likely that Henry had taken a liking to Anne at this point? She would have only been about 13 or so, and had been in the Netherlands for some time prior to going to France; and according to Alison Weir's Henry VIII: King and Court, the romance between Henry and Anne actually only began in about 1526. And do we know that Mary and Anne became good friends - we certainly know that Mary loathed Anne at a later date (at a point several years prior to Henry and Anne's marriage). Do we know what Mary confided to Anne, if anything?
I'd be in favour of removing this section (unless it can be supported, of course), but as it seems to have been removed and reinstated in the past, I wonder what anyone else thinks? Mrabbits 20:51, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
- Removed. Mrabbits 13:07, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
Why did Mary die at 37?
Relationship with henry
Apparently They were each others favourite siblings. Or at least she was Henry's due to the Ship "The Mary Rose" and his first born Mary Tudor. is there anyware we could put that as i haven't read it on the page?OsirisV 17:21, 30 October 2007 (UTC) I don't think the names are necessarily siginificant, however I agree that it has been suggested that she was his favourite sibling. His other siblings died young, except Margaret who went to Scotland aged around twelve. Mary remained in England most of her life and so was probably the sibling closest to him. However, to add it in, you would need to cite a reliable source.Boleyn (talk) 17:10, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
Mary Tudor - Suffolk, the mysterious Lady of The The Lady and the Unicorn ?
You will see, with The Lady and the Unicorn, we are far from the simple interpretation usually known of the Five Senses !
The tapestries of The Lady and the Unicorn were woven for Antoine Le Viste, perhaps in Brussels, Tournai or Bruges. They can be the work of the painter Jean Perréal, known as Jehan of Paris.
The mysterious Lady is Mary Tudor, third wife of Louis XII and sister of Henry VIII, who was the queen of France from August to December 1514.
The second woman is Claude of France, wife of François 1st.
The six tapestries, currently visible in the Museum of the Middle Ages and the Thermal Baths of Cluny in Paris, part of a series of eight tapestries, tell various episodes of Mary's life in France.
My interpretation is the result of a deep, meaningful and serious examination of all the details which, for some people, had gone unnoticed or were never considered with enough rigour.
I would be very happy to read your remarks and your suggestions about my interpretation : please, write me on : firstname.lastname@example.org
1- The Taste : Mary, queen of France, sends jewels to her brother. The supposed candies and fruits are pearls.
2- The Hearing : Louis XII died in the night of December 31, 1514 to January 1, 1515. Mary (called White Queen) has been locked up for 40 days in the Hotel of Cluny, the current museum where the tapestries are exhibited, a time to know if she is pregnant of the late king. Let us notice that Mary and the unicorn are pregnant. To save time until the arrival of Charles Brandon or to get revenge for the attitude of Louise of Savoy, Mary simulated a pregnancy by dissimulating on her belly fabrics of linen.
3- The Sight : Mary fears her return to England. To persuade her brother Henry VIII, she sends him the "Mirror of Napoli" brought back with so many other treasures of Naples by Charles VIII, a diamond of very great value. She marries secretly, again at the Hotel of Cluny, Charles Brandon (that the unicorn represents), the duke of Suffolk.
4- The Smell : Mary is not queen any more, she loses her French crown. She removes one by one the French eyelets from her crown which she will replace by English roses.
5- The Touch n° 1 (the Tent - My only desire) : Mary waits in Calais for the boat to Dover. It is the moment for each one to formulate his desire, that of Mary, that of Antoine Viste, and why not that of the painter. Two remarks which indicate the achievement of a cycle : Mary wears a red dress like the one she wore on her arrival in Abbeville, the same dress as in the Taste and she puts in the jewel case the necklace that she wears in the Taste, at the very beginning of the series. The painter insists on showing that the French cycle of Mary is completed and that she finds her original purity back, without fault and sin.
6- Pavie - The Touch n°2 : Mary is not present on this tapestry weaved to evoke the anger of the financier and the painter against François the 1st after the defeat of the French army to Pavie in 1525. François the 1st, loser and prisoner in Madrid, is depicted under the lines of animals carrying a necklace or an obstacle. The coalition so appears : Henry VIII is the unicorn, Charles the Fifth is the lion, The "Connétable" of Bourbon is the Lady under the lines of his aunt in Athéna, Anne de Beaujeu, who was the one that Louis XII called with Mary when she came in France in 1515. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 18.104.22.168 (talk) 15:27, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
Doubt has recently been raised as to the identity of the sitter in the portrait originally attached to this article. It has traditionally been assumed to be Mary Tudor Queen of France due not to provenance or scholarship but to the fact that the sitter resembles Henry VIII, Mary's brother. However, the jewels - which are the Crown Jewels of Castile - and the 1490s style dress - which would be wildly anachronistic for the 1510-1520 period, let alone later - point to it being more likely Isabella I of Castile. (A less likely possiblity is her daughter Juana I of Castile, but as I wrote the style of the dress and the age of the sitter would argue against it.)
This is currently being discussed among Tudor historians so we can't absolutely say yet that the disputed image is *not* Mary, but as we have another image of her that is indisputedly Mary Tudor Queen of France I thought it better to replace the disputed image with the undisputed one. --22.214.171.124 (talk) 19:02, 25 April 2016 (UTC)