Talk:Mashhad

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Rearrangement[edit]

This article should be rearranged. --Sa.vakilian(t-c) 09:47, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Persia=Iran?[edit]

Why should all of Iran be known as Persia when less than 40% of Iranians speak persian as a first language?-Vmrgrsergr 04:40, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Because it was officially the name of the country before the 1930s. Why should Spain be called Spain when there is a large minority of Basque living there?--Zereshk 05:23, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
Iran has never been called Persia by its inhabitants! Persia is a foreign name! Iran means the land of Aryans and that is why some people (i.e. Jews) don’t like to call it Iran! But it is Iran and it is the land of Aryans! 88.97.164.254 (talk) 00:36, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Propaganda[edit]

The destruction of the city's Jewish population is terribly underplayed and violates NPOV. The Jews were subjected to a horrific pogrom, converted by force, then fled into exile. (How they got away is an epic story and would make a fascinating Hollywood tale, but perhaps isn't for this specific article.) I suggest that this POV tag remain until the article is fixed.68.5.64.178 20:24, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

See the article on the Allahdad incidentScott Adler 21:23, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

There are rumours that Jews actually blow up the shrine in 1994 and government has been trying to cover it up! The other bombing in Shiraz (which again has lots of Jews) in 2008 raised the suspicion amongst the people! Lots of Iranian Jews work for MOSSAD and have been involved in assassination and sabotage according to Jewish sources in Israel. 88.97.164.254 (talk) 00:43, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

In the fact that there was propaganda in this article regarding the 1994 bombing of the shrine, exists no doubt. Iran's state likes to blame its favorite scapegoats: the Jews, the MKO or the States (occasionally). Get your facts straight... it was a Sunni fanatic (at least one other Wikipedia article and a history book seems to confirm this.) I cleaned up the section. Make up your minds: either we're gonna settle on the Jews/US/MKO or we're gonna have to change the other article as well.70.31.21.69 (talk)

WikiProject class rating[edit]

This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 21:00, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

State facts and not opinions[edit]

The fact is that Mashhad is a holy city and whether or not this has any bearing on the political beliefs of its residents should not be discussed in the opening paragraph. Thus to state in the opening paragraph that

(even though its people are known to be very liberal and criticize the fact that Mashhad is known as a Muslim City because the only thing that makes it a holy city is the Imam Reza's Harem)

is barely relevant and should not be included in the opening paragraph as this merely represents opinions and not facts. So bearing this in mind, I suggest that the quoted text is removed and for people interested in discussing the politics of Mashhad a new paragraph is added under the heading Politics and Mashhad. --Tubular bells83 (talk) 18:47, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Unreferencedsection[edit]

I removed a few of the alleged Sister cities which were Unreferenced and not mentioned on the cities' actual websites. If anyone can find a reference to any, please put it back in. Heroeswithmetaphors (talk) 05:19, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Mahmoud Asgari and Ayaz Marhoni[edit]

This paragraph does not belong to this page. It is well know that LGBT rights are not respected in many Islamic countries like Iran and what has happened here have been according to the national law which is valid for all the country and not only city of Mashhad. This paragraph should be under LGBT rights in Iran or under Human rights in the Islamic Republic of Iran. (Koohkan (talk) 17:58, 2 October 2008 (UTC))

Agree, see also the discussion on Talk:Esfahān. This event in the context of the history of the city does not warrant inclusion, at least not in the form of a whole paragraph. Also, it appears that the only the execution took place in Mashad, whereas the teenagers were from Khuzestan province, making it unclear why the execution took place in Mashad and not somewhere else. As there is a whole article on the execution one sentence with a link should suffice (at most). We should also trim the section on the bombing, in order to give more space for less recent events in the history of the city. Голубое сало/Blue Salo (talk) 21:21, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Two editors does not a consensus make. Restoring this section as it's reliably sourced and it was covered internationally, with photos, and caused an human rights uproar. — Becksguy (talk) 23:55, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

It is a discussion and not a voting, If no one disagree with a change, there is no need to involve more people which agree with this change. If you have any arguments about it, you should first discuss it here. (Koohkan (talk) 08:25, 3 November 2008 (UTC))
As you did before reverting? Clearly *someone* *does* disagree with your change. - Outerlimits (talk) 08:27, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
Indeed, the attempt to erase this shameful episode in Mashhad's history is not going to succeed on the basis that it was under colour of law. That it was under colour of law and reflective of what Islamic republics *do* make it *more* noteworthy, not less worthy of inclusion. Like it or not, it's at least one thing that Mashhad is most known for. I'm restoring the paragraph; if you want to remove it wait until you've gained an *actual* consensus for its removal on the talk page. - Outerlimits (talk) 08:27, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
Actually, Koohkan, I did post a brief rationale to keep just before restoring the content on Oct 31st. There are five editors (including myself) that apparently agree that this article content belongs here, as based on comments elsewhere or a history of adding, restoring, or editing this specific content without deletion. Of course, I can't speak for them, only myself. But for me, it does look like a rough consensus to keep, if not in the traditional sense of an AfD or similar. Some of the general arguments used on Talk:Esfahān relative to human rights violations in Iran generally vs. human rights violations in localized cities seem to overlap here also, although obviously those exclusive to Esfahān don't. There is a history here, and even more on Esfahān, of editors that are involved in this type of content, from both sides. And it's not necessarily monolithic, some may feel these are two different cases. Or not. So lets all discuss why, or why not, to include this section in this article. — Becksguy (talk) 09:43, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
I agree with Outlimits and Becksguy. First, just because something is legal does not mean it is okay or not noteable. Second, just because information is placed in one part of Wikipedia does not negate its inclusion in other parts. Our city articles are not travel brochures. --David Shankbone 21:52, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
That's clear that LGBT rights and gay rapists has noting to do here :it's neither historically important nor is a notable event in a large city of more than two million population and thousand year of history .Do pushers who want to insert this section to this article , do the same thing about Austrian history article and Fritzl case ? --Alborz Fallah (talk) 09:38, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
It's clear that "gay rape" has nothing to do with the "executions" of teenagers in your fair city. That aside, the Fritzl case is a good example: it's already mentioned in, and linked to, in the article on the town in which it occurred, Amstetten,_Lower_Austria, as, of course, it should be. - Outerlimits (talk) 13:11, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
I don't think so . That city is populated only 23000 that means a hundred times less than Mashad . I did mentioned the Austria because the whole country's scale is comparable to the city of Mashad in population ( but perhaps more younger in history!) . Amstetten is a small town that has no other attraction other than this case and is not comparable to the second largest city of Iran that is larger than Vienna itself. Please note that Wikipedia is not a soapbox and it is not allowed to insert an advertisement for a [certain] group in an unrelated article .
And to add , in MY fair city(or country -Iran-) , we know better than outsiders that the execution was a case of long child abuse and the victim was a 13-year-old child.I think if a group of LGBT rights or political opponents to Iranian government want to use Wikipedia as a propaganda tool , they may not mention their case in any article that has no connection to their case .Not only in article about Mashad , Isfahan and..., but also in 54 other occasions it has been mentioned in Wikipedia .Compare it with the much complicated case of Josef Fritzl that is mentioned in only 38 occasions , and almost all of it in talk pages ... --Alborz Fallah (talk) 22:27, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
Fritzl is comparing apples to oranges. The attorcities Fritzl committed--from locking up his daughter, to having sex with her, to throwing away dead children he fathered with her--is on a different "disgusting to humanity" plane than Iranians targeting LGBT people, forced sex change operations, cracking down on parties, and hanging children who are barely pubescent for "rape". This case was also illustrative because Iran kills the most children in the world - 2/3rds of children to be killed by a government will be killed by Iran. These were kids that were killed, and under very, very cloudy circumstances - like this teenage girl who was hung in Iran for being raped. Considering Iran's horrific human rights record and corrupt judicial system, it's no wonder Iranians have to try to explain this all away as a 14 year old rapist that was hung. Whatever you want to call it, it deserves to be mentioned in this article on the English Wikipedia - but I can say that the way the Farsi Wikipedia would handle this issue is of little relevance here, considering the dire state of human rights in Iran, and with no official governmental institutions that anyone trusts. --David Shankbone 05:40, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

I've restored the section, which was deleted without consensus shortly after this discussion. - Outerlimits (talk) 05:27, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Is it a kind of edit war ? Ask for consensus . --Alborz Fallah (talk) 19:29, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

History means important and notable historical events, this is is an encyclopedia, not a link dump news page to include every news item there has been in regards to the city. —Preceding unsigned comment added by WrongDude (talkcontribs) 14:05, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

I agree here, Wikipedia is neither a news portal nor is it a platform for political activism. Events that are notable and important for the history of the city should be included, the above mentioned event fails this criterion. Some people reading something in the newspaper and being outraged is not a valid criterion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.116.247.17 (talk) 04:04, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
If we were going to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth then WIKI would be out of business! Do you know the truth about what the Jews did in Mashad and Shiraz? I bet you don’t! Can I tell you what the Jews did in Mashad and Shiraz? No! because I will be censored! How do you think MOSSAD kills Iranian scientists and blows up places? Use your head! 88.97.164.254 (talk) 00:56, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
Unlike many things now included in the article, Iran's judicial murders of Mahmoud Asgari and Ayaz Marhoni is of international renown. The censorship occurring in this article isn't being perpetrated by Mossad agents: it's being perpetrated by those who fear that wider dissemination of the fact of Iran's mistreatment of gay men might stop such murders. - Outerlimits (talk) 01:17, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
WP:NOTSOAPBOX:"Wikipedia is not a soapbox, a battleground, or a vehicle for propaganda and advertising. This applies to articles, categories, templates, talk page discussions, and user pages. Therefore, content hosted in Wikipedia is not Propaganda"--Alborz Fallah (talk) 05:28, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
Indeed, that is an aspiration of Wikipedia. However, it's ongoing censorship of factual information that's the propaganda problem here. No one is suggesting inclusion of propaganda; what is proposed is that the article contain the pertinent facts.- Outerlimits (talk) 06:02, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Thank You[edit]

Thanks to the people who expanded this article. I love reading about Iran's history, religion, culture, and great architecture.

Ya Imam Reza (A.S) Anyone visiting his shrine is sure to get the same feeling i did, he was with me when i was there and i felt it. i miss Him so much, Ya Imam Reza(as) and bless anyone who visits your shrine and give them the same feeling and peace you gave me.

"The discretion of a Muslim is not perfect except after he acquires ten qualities: Allah accepts his good deeds, he is trustworthy, he sees as plentiful the little good that others do for him, while seeing his own abundant good as little; he does not ...fret from being asked for favor, nor does he feel tired of constantly seeking knowledge; poverty reached in order to please Allah is better for him than wealth accumulated otherwise; to be subjected to power while trying to serve Allah is better in his regard than achieving power over his foe, and obscurity he prefers over fame. Imam Reza

If someone could please make a Imam Reza wikiquote section, or add quotes to his wikipage.

Thank you very much! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.80.105.24 (talk) 04:47, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

File:Almas-mashhad.jpg Nominated for Deletion[edit]

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