Talk:Mother and Baby Homes Commission of Investigation

Collaborative Forum on Mother and Baby Homes

Is the term Collaborative Forum on Mother and Baby Homes as mentioned here another term for the Mother and Baby Homes Commission of Investigation? If not, how are they related and how should the cited report be listed? Given that it deals with issues of racial discrimination in the homes, it is particularly important. Autarch (talk) 19:56, 23 February 2020 (UTC)

Based on this reference the Collaborative Forum on Mother and Baby Homes is distinct from the Mother and Baby Homes Commission of Investigation. Autarch (talk) 00:52, 26 February 2020 (UTC)

Typo?

Can someone tell me what is going on in the Conolly block quote that reads I don’t doubt your bona fides, a thaoisigh, but I certainly doubt your judgement.... --Melchior2006 (talk) 13:34, 16 January 2021 (UTC)

Sorry, Melchior2006, good catch. I'll wrap that in language tags. Taoiseach is an Irish-language term, and is the title of the Irish prime minister, whom Connolly was addressing. In Irish, nouns are declined, and a thaoisigh is the vocative case of the nominative, Taoiseach. Bastun^{Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ!} 17:12, 16 January 2021 (UTC)

I'm curious

I'm curious why we call their institutes "orders" when they themselves don't call them that, and why we call sisters "nuns" when they themselves do not call them that? Seems rude. Aren't people entitled to proper self-identification? Elizium23 (talk) 20:50, 16 January 2021 (UTC)

Common usage? Because they also don't call themselves "institutes"? See, for example, the media coverage over the last few days. Journalists and commentators may talk about the "institutions" women were sent to, but they mean mother and baby homes and Magdalene laundries. When they talk about the religious who ran the homes, they talk about orders, not institutes. The Bon Secours Sisters say "We are an international Congregation of religious women"; the Daughters of Charity say "The Daughters of Charity are an International Community of Apostolic Life within the Catholic Church." "Nun" is a commonly understood and widely used term for a member of a religious community of women, and I don't understand how it could be deemed to be rude. It's also useful shorthand when some are 'Sisters' and others are 'Daughters'. Bastun^{Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ!} 22:19, 16 January 2021 (UTC)

Bastun, I think it's common knowledge that secular media is typically tone-deaf if not outright hostile to Church matters. They gleefully mislabel things with homey old slang terms like "defrock" and "nun" even when they know full well that's not the correct term. It must be baked into their manuals of style.

So to make an analogy, it would be as if all news sources in Ireland reported on US Law like so: "In an American Circus of Law, the Judge wears Funny Pajamas and he sits on a Long Chair while he bangs his Wooden Hammer. The Bailiff takes notes on what people said."

The Catholic Church has actual, technical, legal terms for these entities we're describing, and there are ample WP:RS which have the correct terms. To ignore them and claim "we're going with the RS" is equally as tone-deaf and hostile as the secular media, reflects poorly on us as we summarize them, and damages our spotless reputation for neutrality. Elizium23 (talk) 22:57, 16 January 2021 (UTC)

And if you ask them, they would indeed call themselves "institutes". a Congregation is an Institute; a Community of Apostolic Life is an Institute, and an Order is an Institute; all communities are Institutes, but not all Institutes are Orders. It's a fundamental refusal to learn the correct terms. Elizium23 (talk) 22:59, 16 January 2021 (UTC)

And they aren't "Daughters" as a title, it's the name of the Institute. I wouldn't go up to Sister Clare and say "Hello Daughter!" that would be rude to say the least! Elizium23 (talk) 23:00, 16 January 2021 (UTC)

So, to be absolutely clear: in the week that saw the publication of a 3,000 page report on a 5-year investigation that documented cruelty, mistreatment and the deaths of approximately 9,000 children through neglect, and where the religious orders implicated in that report have not challenged the findings but instead have apologised profusely for their actions and inactions - your issue with this article is that we may be perceived as being "rude" to the nuns who were responsible? I really don't think I'm the one who is being "tone deaf" here... Bastun^{Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ!} 01:14, 17 January 2021 (UTC)

What does that have to do with the issue? Elizium23 (talk) 01:21, 17 January 2021 (UTC)

Ok, then. Assuming your question isn't rhetorical, the "issue" is that in an article that says use Irish English, we're using Irish English. And in Irish English, we call the Bons Secours Sisters and the Daughters of Charity religious orders (of nuns), not religious institutes. So do the media, in Ireland - and elsewhere, for that matter. So does Eamon Martin, who, as Primate of All Ireland, probably knows what he's talking about. And the Commission's final report refers to Catholic religious orders six times in just the executive summary, and when it refers to institutions, it is invariably referring to mother and baby homes, not to religious orders. It doesn't use "institutes" at all. Bastun^{Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ!} 14:31, 17 January 2021 (UTC)