Talk:Mount Erciyes

Mount Erciyes has been listed as one of the Geography and places good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Review: October 1, 2018. (Reviewed version).

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Mount Erciyes article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Volcanoes Mid‑importance

	Volcanoes portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Volcanoes, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of volcanoes, volcanology, igneous petrology, and related subjects on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.VolcanoesWikipedia:WikiProject VolcanoesTemplate:WikiProject VolcanoesWikiProject Volcanoes articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Turkey Mid‑importance

	Turkey portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Turkey, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Turkey and related topics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.TurkeyWikipedia:WikiProject TurkeyTemplate:WikiProject TurkeyTurkey articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Mountains Mid‑importance

	Mountains portal This article is part of WikiProject Mountains, a project to systematically present information on mountains. If you would like to participate, you can choose to edit the article attached to this page (see Contributing FAQ for more information), or visit the project page where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.MountainsWikipedia:WikiProject MountainsTemplate:WikiProject MountainsMountain articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Guild of Copy Editors

This article was copy edited by Corinne, a member of the Guild of Copy Editors, on 28 February 2017.Guild of Copy EditorsWikipedia:WikiProject Guild of Copy EditorsTemplate:WikiProject Guild of Copy EditorsGuild of Copy Editors articles

The following references may be useful when improving this article in the future:

Requested move 27 January 2017

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Not moved. Aervanath (talk) 05:59, 18 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Mount Erciyes → Erciyes Dağı – native Turkish name Anthony Appleyard (talk) 13:35, 27 January 2017 (UTC)--Relisting. Anarchyte (work | talk) 08:27, 6 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Inclined to support but @Anthony Appleyard: can you please given guidance on why some of Category:Mountains of Turkey have "Mount" but most don't? Thanks. In ictu oculi (talk) 18:57, 27 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@In ictu oculi: Such pages were likeliest set up one by one by different people, and people's preferences vary. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 22:42, 27 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Anarchyte: Shall I remove the above bracket? --George Ho (talk) 02:00, 7 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Oops. Fixed :) Anarchyte (work | talk) 03:46, 7 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose - Recent sources use the current title: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7]. Interchangeable: DK book [8]. News articles use "Mount". Not one English source exclusively uses "Dagi". George Ho (talk) 02:00, 7 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per George and in absence of any sources provided by the nominator. Jenks24 (talk) 09:43, 15 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Mount Erciyes/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Ceranthor (talk · contribs) 16:52, 10 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I'm happy to review this. ceranthor 16:52, 10 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Haven't forgotten about this. Just working on other GAN reviews / real life / prioritizing Ubinas right now. Will get to this in the next day or two. ceranthor 16:41, 19 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Ceranthor Don't worry about this. A GAN review is not something that is really Do It Now Dammit urgent. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 18:30, 19 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Lead

"Argaeus" - is this a redirect? if not, not sure it's worth mentioning in the lead?
"It is a large stratovolcano that is surrounded by many monogenetic vents and lava domes" - is it actually a field then? Bit confused by this
"Supposedly, from its summit one can see both the Mediterranean and the Black Sea." - not sure this is worthy of inclusion, let alone in the lead, if it's only "supposedly"
" Erciyes proper grew inside the caldera together with a group of lava domes. Lateral eruptions of Erciyes may have generated ash layers in the Black Sea and the Mediterranean during the early Holocene." - might be more clear to clarify "the Erciyes proper edifice"?
"Future eruptions of Erciyes may endanger cities in the north." - north Turkey? geographically north? be more precise
Think the lead should realistically be no more than two paragraphs, not four.

Apparently that name is uncommon but not entirely unused. I don't think that a volcano surrounded by monogenetic vents is necessarily considered a volcanic field; Mount Etna, Mauna Kea for example. Did the other things. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 16:35, 26 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Etymology

"Erciyes was historically known as Argaeus, a name derived from the king of Macedon Argaeus I (678 – 640 BC).[3] " - do you have a slightly more precise time frame for when the name changed? No worries if not, just curious.
"Until the 1950s, the name of the volcano was "Erciyas".[4]" - any idea why it changed?
"An alternative theory" - from whom? Why do you call it a "theory"?
I presume that the first name change may have occurred in the 11th century or later when the area became populated by Turkish-speaking people, but I don't think I have a source for this. I'll ask about the second name change at WP:RX as I don't have access to the source anymore. Mended that issue. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 16:35, 26 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I have big concerns regarding the name "Argaeus" coming from a Macedonian King who has no relation to central Anatolia at that time (7th century BCE), it is most likely just the Greek word meaning "white, shining" which is a simple answer. The Hittite name "Harkasos" is also very suspicious, for I was unable to find any source but the given one which is not in any way a history/Hittitology related paper. I found this source, that gives the Hittite name of the mountain as "divine Mount Harhari". I'd like to drop that other source, and use this in the text. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Buræquete (talk • contribs) 04:32, 25 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Geology and geomorphology

I'd clarify the province is in Turkey, just to state the country explicitly.
"Reaching the summit requires mountaineering skills.[10]" - seems like a verbose way of saying that it's not accessible by novice climbers? Reword perhaps?
"Supposedly, climbers in antiquity reported that both the Black Sea and the Mediterranean could be seen from the summit.[11]" - do modern sources dispute this claim, then? You should clarify that too.
No need to link ocean
"Two oceans that existed between these three plates in the Eocene were subducted.[15]" - under where were they subducted? should clarify this.
No need to link stratovolcano more than once
"It developed over a broad shield,[14]" - should clarify what you mean by a shield for a lay reader
"and has a hummocky appearance.[34] " - link hummock?
" (Maars are small volcanoes formed by phreatomagmatic activity that excavates country rock.[47]) " - this comes abruptly and not after the first reference to maars... perhaps convert to a footnote? And move it to the first reference to maars!
Need to cut overlinking with epochs and different types of volcanic rock - linking many of them more than once in the article body text
Got most of these things. Re Strabo I am personally doubtful of such a claim and it's a fairly old (2000 years) source but without sources to contradict it I am not sure if to remove. I think that most readers can figure out what "shield" means. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 16:35, 26 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Climate and biology

"Farther up, between 1,100–2,500 metres (3,600–8,200 ft), forests of Juniperus, Populus tremula and Quercus prevail where the environment has not been modified by human activity. Farther up, mountain pastures exist.[37] " - maybe replace second "Farther up" with "At higher elevations"?
"Erciyes is a major floral region of Turkey, with much biological diversity of plants." - kind of generic; rephrase perhaps to be more specific?
I would briefly clarify who Strabo is
"but differences exist between the various areas of Erciyes.[74]" - such as?

Cut out some sentences. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 16:35, 26 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Glaciation

"The volcano was glaciated during the Pleistocene,[75] when about three stages of glaciation occurred" - "during which", not "when about"
"Meltwater from these glaciers nourished a lake in the Sultansazlıği basin.[40]" - still there?

Done and answered. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 16:35, 26 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Eruptive history

"One of the famous Cappadocian ignimbrites that extend over eastern Cappadocia, the Valibaba Tepe ignimbrite,[86] was linked to Erciyes volcano.[14] " - disorganized writing; you mention the Cappadocian ignimbrites before mentioning what Cappadocia is?
"The next phase of activity was explosive, with eruptions at the summit of Ercyies " - typo?
"The deposits of this activity are found north and south of the summit of Ercyies" - same as above?

Remedied. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 16:35, 26 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Threats and human interaction

Does the source explicitly connect the volcano to mudflows/lahars?
Not sure "human interaction" is appropriate... but haven't devised a good replacement yet that feels better suited. TBD on this point.

Yes, the source does that. Regarding the tourism sentence, maybe into the "glacier" section? Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 16:35, 26 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Discoveries and locations named after Erciyes

"Mount Argaeus on the Moon was named after Argaeus, the old name for Erciyes.[108]" - I thought Argaeus was a king?
too crufty... think these should be combined into etymology and the climate/biology sections, respectively.

Dissolved this section and answered the other question too. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 16:35, 26 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Prose needs tightening. will provide ref/image comments once these are fixed (and any additional thoughts/suggestions). ceranthor 15:55, 26 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Got the listed issues. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 16:35, 26 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Jo-Jo Eumerus: Will get to this later today. ceranthor 14:04, 30 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Final run-through comments

"The city of Kayseri lies 15 kilometres (9.3 mi),[8] 25 kilometres (16 mi),[9] or 20 kilometres (12 mi) north of Erciyes volcano" - maybe add a note to clarify that sources vary on the exact distance, and make this "between 15 km and 20 km"?
"Supposedly, climbers in antiquity reported that both the Black Sea and the Mediterranean could be seen from the summit.[12]" - I'd cut out "supposedly"
"disappearing through subducted.[16]" - is this meant to read "through subduction"?
"a movement that is still underway today.[18]" - reads a bit awkwardly
"stratovolcanoes, including Erciyes Dagi and Hasan Dagi on the one hand and monogenetic volcanoes and maars[a] on the other hand, developed.[13]" - move "developed" to right after stratovolcanoes to reduce separation between subject and verb
" has been dated at 15,500 ± 2,500 years ago based on fission track dating.[25]" - to reduce verbiage, can you rephrase as "has been fission tracked dated..." and cut out the "based on..."
"reaching a height of 3,864 metres (12,677 ft),[2] 3,918 metres (12,854 ft)[30] or 3,917 metres (12,851 ft),[9][8][3][31][32][33] " - fix the ref order so they're ascending (minor)
"Today, the basin contains wetlands that are protected under the Ramsar Convention and a major nesting site for migratory birds.[43]" - would add a verb before "major nesting site..."; "are" or "remain" perhaps?
General concern about repeating links throughout the body. Not a major issue IMO, but definitely will be scrutinized at higher levels of review like FAC. Prefer to avoid overlinking in general though.
"The geographer Strabo claimed that, in antiquity, the volcano was forested.[12] " - have an estimated age for this claim?
"20,700 ± 2,200 and 20,400 ± 1,800 years ago deglaciation occurred in the two catchments." - both of these times? or at one of them? bit confused by the sentence
no need to link snow!
Why are certain journal articles given sfns but others just have footnotes with their full bibliographic entries?
Refs are certainly comprehensive and reliable.
Source info appears to be missing for File:ErciyesDagi.jpg?
Earwig's tool seems to check out

Once these are addressed, happy to pass this as a GA. ceranthor 00:10, 1 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Did these. Made the distance to Kayseri to a range since cities have a width. I don't think this one will head to FAC anywhere soon unless an interested Turkish speaker shows up whi can access and translate Turkish sources; as-is the article is entirely English language source reliant. Re Strabo I think that was the first century BC given the date of Geographica. Regarding the deglaciation the sources say Mount Erciyes at 20.7±2.2 ka and20.4±1.8 ka for the two different catchments does that mean that one deglaciated at a different time? Re citation formats that is the two systems I usually use. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 06:18, 1 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

for the two different catchments seems to imply two slightly different deglaciation times, but that might be made more clear in the context. Going to pass this now, but I would appreciate if you could try to reword that for clarity that you are giving slightly different time periods for the two catchments. ceranthor 12:42, 1 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Had an insight while on the train so I've reworded that catchment sentence. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 14:13, 1 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Edit warring on etymology

There are IPs (from the same ISP) that want to remove the Greek alternative name from the lead. I think we can mention it in the lead. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 19:15, 20 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]