Talk:Nicholas Latifi

Nationality ordering

@LesRoutine: Your argument in this revert is simply inapplicable and wrong. Your phrasing at Lance Stroll is also incorrect.

People in country X who are ethnically from, formerly from, or hold a second nationality from country Y are generally referred to as Y-X. If you disagree with this and can somehow demonstrate that reliable sources use the reversed order, then do so at the pages of all of our articles on Iranian Canadians, Belgian Canadians, French Canadians, Chinese Canadians, Chinese Americans, African Americans, etc. It’s simply a fact of nomenclature and WP:COMMONNAME usage that the ethnicity/former nationality comes first. As written, the current wording of Canadian-Belgian implies that Stroll is a Belgian resident of Canadian descent and Canadian-Iranian implies that Latifi is an Iranian national of Canadian descent. — MarkH₂₁^talk 09:03, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

Ok, thats clear. I corrected it to Belgian-Canadian a couple of times on the Lance Stroll article and it got reverted everytime by people telling me I'm wrong. If you're so sure about it, please edit the Lance Stroll page as well then. Thanks for clearing it up. LesRoutine (talk) 10:19, 27 February 2020 (UTC) Edit: see here for example. I originally wrote it as Belgian-Canadian until people pointed out I was wrong.

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Page width

Why is this page so wide? Lmao Manhattia (talk) 07:29, 29 January 2022 (UTC)

Why Canadian-Iranian and not Canadian-Italian?

I don't care about the order (Canadian-Iranian vs Iranian-Canadian) and there is already discourse on that topic on this talk page. Why, if Latifi is half Canadian-Iranian and half Iranian-Canadian, does it say he "is a Canadian-Iranian racing driver"? It could just as well be Canadian-Italian, Canadian-Italian-Iranian, Italian-Iranian or just Canadian? Does he describe himself as Canadian-Iranian somewhere? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Augwik (talk • contribs) 09:59, 20 March 2022 (UTC)

I'm guessing, but could it be because his father is a first generation Iranian, but his mother is "only" second-generation Italian (or possibly third, but not first)? SSSB (talk) 10:14, 20 March 2022 (UTC)

Nationality

On Instagram, Latifi calls himself a "proud Canadian", most media call him Canadian instead of Iranian-Canadian, he represents Canada and not Iran, and even F1 official media call him Canadian. Dual citizenship, even if an individual has it, should only be listed if a person is notable for it, and should be "Fooian and Barian", not "Fooian-Barian", as "Fooian-Barian" means a Barian person of Fooian descent. See Charlize Theron, who is called "South African and American". 2A01:36D:1200:4F8:8A8:F9A6:8DB2:5487 (talk) 05:33, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

That's just a stylistic opinion, there are plenty of articles that describe nationality as we do, like Jim Carrey. Multiple discussions have yielded the consensus that F1 articles should describe nationality in the form of nation2-nation1. SSSB (talk) 06:08, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

I agree with 2A01:36D.... I am not aware of any reliable sources which refer to this subject as either "Iranian-Canadian" or "Canadian-Iranian" therefore I am not at all satisfied that the lead should refer to him as such. -"Ghost of Dan Gurney" 16:28, 8 October 2022 (UTC)

LesRoutine please stop edit warring (while telling me to come to a place i'm already at, nice...) and actually respond. You need to give reliable sources which state the subject is C-I or I-C. Without, this is WP:SYNTH and a BLP vio. Additionall, Nathanlong3010's edit was in good faith. It was NOT vandalism and I endorse the edit. -"Ghost of Dan Gurney" 16:34, 8 October 2022 (UTC)

Let's see some examples in the field. RACER, "Canadian". Beyond the Flag, "Canadian". The Mirror, "Canadian". Sports Illustrated, "Canadian".

There is no reason for the lead to make any mention of him being Iranian. It's trivia at best. -"Ghost of Dan Gurney" 16:52, 8 October 2022 (UTC)

@SSSB What is your opinion on this? Asking you since you solved this on Lance Stroll and Lando Norris... LesRoutine (talk) 17:06, 8 October 2022 (UTC)

The only reason the media always call him Canadian is because he competes as Canadian, it doesn't make him any less Iranian. Nor does the fact he calls himself a "proud Canadian", he can be a proud Canadian and a proud Iranian independently and simultaneously. So, I don't really understand that argument.

There are two ways of looking at this. You could be 100% accurate and say that calling him "Canadian" and not "Iranian-Canadian" is mis-leading because legally he is equally both. Or you could follow Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Biography#Context which suggests we should just call him Canadian, because he is notable under his Canadian nationality. There are three things I'd like to make clear on this point. Firstly, I don't agree with MOS's stance. Secondly, MOS is a guide, not something we have to follow, just a suggestion based on the broad consensus of how to apply this issue generally. Latifi's case might be different. Thirdly, I'm personally not fussed either way, I might have been once, but not anymore. I only contributed above because the IP was making incorrect statements.(I am not watching this page, so please ping me if you want my attention.) SSSB (talk) 17:32, 8 October 2022 (UTC)

Before we can progress any further, we need to answer a simple question. Is there any reliable source out there confirming he is a legal national of Iran?Tvx1 19:35, 8 October 2022 (UTC)

'Goatifi' issue

Why not just recognize the issue by adding a section explaining that Latifi generated some kind of a cult following during his Formula 1 career, often being depicted on social media with the silhouette of a goat (Greatest Of All Time) in the background? 175.141.59.212 (talk) 00:49, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

Absolutely. And also, can’t we all just stop name-calling him as “Goatifi”? Yes, we all know that he has generated some kind of a cult following during his Formula 1 career, often being depicted on social media with the silhouette of a literal goat, but please, name-calling isn't the way to memorialize his legacy on Formula 1. AptiveViennaPro (chat with me) 09:00, 25 June 2023 (UTC)

It's not being a "goat" (scapegoat) instead of The GOAT (greatest) ? -- 67.70.25.175 (talk) 22:18, 1 October 2023 (UTC)

Removal of detail about junior career

Pinging: @Namelessposter

Is it really necessary to remove 12,000 bytes of information regarding Latifi's junior career? I understand trimming things down for readability, but removing that much information seems unnecessary. Individuals who would want to read about his early career have limited information, and it really makes no sense to remove stuff just because he made it to F1. GalacticVelocity08 (talk) 14:32, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

Hi there, I appreciate the note. I wanted to trim the junior career summaries for several reasons, including (1) this page has been tagged for being excessively detailed for over six months now, (2) much of the info that was removed was sourced from Latifi's personal website (the Russell page was similar), (3) certain race summaries were written in a tone that could be read as somewhat promotional, (4) providing so much junior career coverage of a driver who spent three years and 61 races in F1 seems to me to violate WP:UNDUE. I get the argument that junior racers don't get that much journalistic attention to begin with and that if you want a junior's races covered in detail you have to do it yourself, but (a) I think that's an argument for limiting coverage of junior racers, not including it, and (b) especially at the F2 level, reliable sources do exist. IMO, if you can find reliable outside sources providing blow by blow analysis of Latifi's junior career, that's one thing, but when the only reed to support inclusion is Latifi's website, cuts are more appropriate. For context, I recently performed similar cuts on the George Russell article and those seemed to be taken well - tagging in @Mb2437 and @Jestal50 for their opinion since they were editing the article at the same time. Namelessposter (talk) 15:38, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

I should add that to the extent that a junior career summary primarily records the qualifying and race result, it is essentially a wordier way to replicate the race results table at the bottom of the page. I was more willing to maintain capsule summaries of Latifi's final F2 campaign because he was neck and neck with de Vries for the title lead for most of the year, just like I noted several of Latifi's recovery drives during his penultimate F2 campaign because that many recovery drives is a notable trend. Namelessposter (talk) 15:49, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

I completely missed the heavy sourcing of his own website/DAMS, so I apologize. With your explanation and reading the article more in detail, the trimming does make more sense (the byte counts/large content removal certainly threw me off). I was unaware of WP:UNDUE, so when I originally read the diff it didn't really make sense to me. Thank you for the response!

I am horrible at writing talk page messages, so apologizes if the original message came off pushy. GalacticVelocity08 (talk) 16:18, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

Thank you. I didn't read it as pushy as all! Namelessposter (talk) 16:22, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

Good job trimming the excess prose on GP2. Massively overdetailed GP2 careers are rife across modern F1 driver articles, I will be looking at cutting down Charles Leclerc next. As for references, we should be removing all primary sources (Latifi / DAMS website, unless they contain crucial details not covered elsewhere) as they do not verify notability. For F2, Autosport is generally your best bet for a HQ source; Feeder Series and Formula Scout may also be useful. Full race summaries, tyre strategies and details on other drivers are rarely justified unless they underpin a standout moment in the subject's season/career, especially not in junior categories. I typically aim to increase prose size by ~50% from category to category (F4 < F3 < F2 < F1), see Andrea Kimi Antonelli for example, to satisfy due weight without completely glossing over their formative years. I'd say due weight has now been satisfied relatively well in Latifi's case, and the excessive detail tag may be removed. MB2437 17:43, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

I agree that the section was far too detailed; race-by-race details on junior categories are unnecessary for a driver who spent several years in F1. I haven't read through the current version yet but it looks to be an appropriate length. Jestal50 (talk) 18:38, 28 December 2024 (UTC)