Talk:Pioneer Woman

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I am posting several versions of this note in several places[edit]

Hopefully it will clear up the copyright issue.

This concerns an article Pioneer Woman (statue) or perhaps just Pioneer Woman. I thought that I had designed it the former - with "(statue)" but it seems to have morphed into the latter. No (statue). (Tho I see in Review that both show up in blue.) The blog that much of it was taken from was my own, written several years ago. When I decided to produce an article about the statue and the competition I realized that I already had much written, though not in a particularly encyclopedic manner, so I made some changes. One of the differences between the two versions is that I added a mess of references to the wikipedia version that were not spelled out in the blog. I actually appreciate the work that you are doing, keeping these sorts of issues legal in line for the rest of us editors, but this is one case where you do not need to worry too much. Now on to the other links that you provided where I will post something very similar to this. a close paraphrase, if you will. Life is supposed to be interesting. Einar aka Carptrash (talk) 16:42, 14 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Bible[edit]

Thanks for finding that quote from Baker. Obviously the paragraph before the quote will be cleaned up (once I get around to rereading the more recent news articles which cover the State Quarter controversy). I had come across bits and pieces of the same interview, but not the particular section explicitly mentioning the Bible. VernoWhitney (talk) 16:07, 15 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

F. Lynn Jenkins died in 1927, but I can't find a date. I wonder if it was during the Tour? Perhaps you'll have better luck. I am working on a stub about him. Also I am planning to stick in some dates and facts about the tour. After taking my spouce to the doctors. eek aka Carptrash (talk) 16:13, 15 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
It looks like he died on September 1st [1][2]. VernoWhitney (talk) 16:54, 15 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. That puts it right in the middle of the tour.. The pressure was too much for him? Carptrash (talk) 19:34, 15 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The tour[edit]

City/State Venue Dates Miscellaneous
New York, New York[1] Reinhardt Galleries[1] February 26 - March 19[2] About 6,000[3] to 10,000 votes were cast, most popular were Baker, MacNeil, and Calder in that order.[4]
Boston, Massachusetts[5] Boston Art Club April 9
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania April 17
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania[5] Carnegie Institute galleries[6] "all next week" after Sunday, April 17[6]
Cincinnati, Ohio[5] Ohio Tribune and Star Tribune Club Room May 8 MacNeil was most popular.[7]
Buffalo, New York[5] May 13
Detroit, Michigan[5]
Cleveland, Ohio[8] Planned - article prior to visit, so unconfirmed.
Portland, Oregon[8] Planned - article prior to visit, so unconfirmed.
San Francisco, California[8] Planned - article prior to visit, so unconfirmed.
Los Angeles, California[8] Planned - article prior to visit, so unconfirmed.
Indianapolis, Indiana[5] John Herron Art Institute June 10 - 22
Chicago. Illinois[5] Art Institute of Chicago[9] June 25[9] - July 31[10] Sponsored by the Chicago Architectural League. 7933 women voted. 7983(?) votes total. Baker's was the most popular, and has so far been the favorite in 11 of 12 cities. 1,942 votes for Baker, 1,321 for Jenkins and 1,088 for Gregory.[10][11]
Denver, Colorado[7] Cheesman Park August 7 - Planned - article prior to visit, so unconfirmed.
Minneapolis, Minnesota Opened August 18 for two weeks [12]

? was planned to be open August 24 "for about a week"[13]

St. Paul, Minnesota State Fair Grounds September 3
Kansas City, Missouri[5] Kansas City Art Institute September 12 - 22
Dallas, Texas[5] State Fair Grounds
Oklahoma City[5] Perrine Building October 25 to November 2 [14] sponsored by the Daily Oklahoman newspaper and the Oklahoma Art League
Fort Worth, Texas[5] Record Telegram and Star Telegram Building, club room November 14 Local CSA veterans (ages 82 to 87) preferred Jo Davidson's model. [15]

Visit hosted by the AAUW and the Business and Professional Women's Club [16] "Nearly 10,000 votes cast by visitors" [17]

Ponca City, Oklahoma[5] City Building November 21 [18] Over 1,000 votes cast on Thanksgiving Day [19]
Washington, D.C.[8] Planned - article prior to visit, so unconfirmed. Washington DC was to be the last stop, after Ponca City. [20]

There must have been at least 14 cities visited, since Baker was most popular in 11 and Gregory in 3.[1] LATimes claims only 15 cities visited.[21]

  1. ^ a b c "PICKS BAKER STATUE OF 'PIONEER WOMAN': Marland Names Winner Among 12 Sculptors for Monument in Oklahoma. POPULAR VOTE THE FACTOR Young Woman, With Bible, Leading Her Son Typifies Hardy Spirit of the Early Days". New York Times. March 20, 1927. p. 9. {{cite news}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help)
  2. ^ "PIONEER WOMAN IN BRONZE: Models in Marland Competition Will Be Shown Here". New York Times. February 22, 1927. p. 21. {{cite news}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help)
  3. ^ "VOTE ON "PIONEER WOMAN.": Bryant Baker's Statue in the Lead -- H.A. MacNeil's Second". New York Times. March 20, 1927. p. E6. {{cite news}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help)
  4. ^ "PIONEER WOMAN SEEN IN BRONZE: Twelve Sculptors Show Their Models for the Proposed Monumental Statue to Be Erected In Oklahoma -- Other States to See Them". New York Times. March 20, 1927. p. XX6. {{cite news}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help)
  5. ^ a b c d e f g h i j k l SPECIAL FROM MONITOR BUREAU (December 21, 1927). "New York Sculptor Wins Prize for Typifying Pioneer Women". Christian Science Monitor. p. 3. {{cite news}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help)
  6. ^ a b "CLUBS TO VOTE ON PIONEER WOMAN". The Pittsburgh Press. April 17, 1927. p. Society Section - 5. Retrieved March 15, 2011.
  7. ^ a b Ada Rainey (July 31, 1927). "SMITHSONIAN WILL EXHIBIT FIFTY PRINTS". The Washington Post. p. S8. {{cite news}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help)
  8. ^ a b c d e Elmo Scott Watson (May 7, 1927). "The PIONEER MOTHER". The Woodville Republican. p. 2. Retrieved March 15, 2011.
  9. ^ a b Eleanor Jewett (June 25, 1927). "Architecture Comes Into Own in Annual Exhibition at Institute". Chicago Tribune. p. 11. {{cite news}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help)
  10. ^ a b "Voted Best Monument to Women: WOMEN VOTE TO PICK MONUMENT FOR PRAIRIE SITE New Yorker's Statue Is Favorite". Chicago Tribune. July 31, 1927. p. 22. {{cite news}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help)
  11. ^ "STATUE WINS FAVOR Baker Model for Tribute to Women is approved". The Pittsburgh Press. August 1, 1927. p. 5. Retrieved March 15, 2011.
  12. ^ clipping for Duluth Minnesota Herald, Aug 18, 1927
  13. ^ "BRIEF NOTES OF THE WORLD OF ART". New York Times. July 24, 1927. p. X6. {{cite news}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help)
  14. ^ the Daily Oklahoman, October 23, 1927
  15. ^ undated newspaper clipping
  16. ^ newspaper clipper "Nov. 14, 1927
  17. ^ Fort Worth Star-Telegram, Nov. 14, 1927
  18. ^ clipping from Ponca City News, 11-22-27
  19. ^ clipping from Ponca City News, 11-24-27
  20. ^ The Daily Oklahoman, Oct. 30, 1927
  21. ^ "PIONEER WOMAN MONUMENT: Public in Fifteen Cities Chose Bryant Baker's Idealistic Sculpture for Ponca City". Los Angeles Times. January 8, 1928. p. C21. {{cite news}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help)

Wheeler Williams statue[edit]

So judging from pictures this is the same statue as was modeled for the competition, but it's refered to as the Pioneer Mother of Kansas[3][4]. What's the source that actually talks about it being rediscovered and is there any other relation to the Pioneer Woman?

A couple of points. All the stuff about Marland, running for office and the women's vote was both opinion and original research by . .... some blogger .. so removing it is appropriate. Mutter, mutter, mutter. On the Wheeler Williams statue, yes, this was an enlarged version of his model. I "discovered" it while in Liberty, Kansas a decade (carptime) ago. At that time I went into the library that the statue is in front of and spent several hours researching it, but those notes and xeroxes of letters, newspaper clippings and whatever have not showed up yet. However this is not speculation on my part (as was "see above"). Carptrash (talk) 18:42, 16 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

DYK?[edit]

So tomorrow/today (the 18th) is the deadline for submitting this for DYK, which is something I'd really like to do to get this on the front page for at least a few hours (it even has a nice free picture to go with it!), but I'm drawing a blank on a catchy "hook" to draw people in. Got any ideas? VernoWhitney (talk) 01:11, 18 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Are you searching for the lead question? DYK that the American public was asked to vote on which statue out of 12 should be built? Something like that? Carptrash (talk) 02:07, 18 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, that kind of thing is what I've been trying to think of. VernoWhitney (talk) 02:57, 18 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

How 'bout "which famous American sculpture was picked to make . ......?" Carptrash (talk) 03:47, 18 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Well, it's not pretty but it's listed now - Template talk:Did you know#Pioneer Woman - feel free to comment or propose alternate hooks or whatnot. VernoWhitney (talk) 23:39, 18 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Looks good. I don't think that I've ever seen my name on that page before. Carptrash (talk) 02:45, 19 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Doctor Who[edit]

It seems that the statue plays a prominent role in the fifth episode of the Series 7 of Doctor Who. Hektor (talk) 16:27, 24 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not that familiar with Doctor Who, but if you can provide some more information (or better yet, some reliable sources talking about its use/appearance) then that may be something that can be added to the article. VernoWhitney (talk) 01:35, 25 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Unless this is part of a Dr. Who event, according to us the 7th season only had 4 episodes. Where did you get your information? Einar aka Carptrash (talk) 02:25, 25 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Well we have to wait for the episode to be broadcast. Here is an image of the location shooting Should be at the end of the year. Hektor (talk) 15:03, 25 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, it looks like they created a small model of the statue, but if it turns out to actually be significant and sourceable it could warrant a "In popular culture" mention. VernoWhitney (talk) 16:57, 30 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

What is it doing in Cardiff, Wales? The sculptor Bryant Baker, was a Brit of some sort. Born in London. Never seemed like a Welshman,, but who knows. Or, Dr. Who knows? Carptrash (talk) 22:46, 30 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I have removed the category[edit]

Category:Allegorical sculptures in the United States because I do not believe that this is an allegorical statue. An Oxford English Dictionary defines "allegory" as, "description of a subject under the guise of another subject." Here we have the Pioneer Woman portrayed as . . . ..the Pioneer Woman. It might be symbolic of something but it is not allegory. Please feel free to join in the discussion. Carptrash (talk) 03:55, 11 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Deleting statement that "Marland's inspiration for this project included his pioneering mother and grandmother"[edit]

There is a statement in the article that I am deleting that says that

Marland's inspiration for this project included his pioneering mother and grandmother.[3]

and even gives a reference. This is totally wrong. Marland's mother and grandmother were both born and raised in England and after emigrating his mother lived in Pittsburgh, PA.

Ernest W. Marland was born in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, on May 8, 1874, the youngest and only boy of the eight children of Alfred and Sara Marland.[1]

He was the youngest of three children and only son of Alfred and Sarah (MacLeod) Marland. His mother, who also had five daughters by an earlier marriage, was a native of the Isle of Skye. His father, a grandson of Ernest Whitworth, a noted mathematician and head of Whitworth School for Boys in Manchester, was of English birth. Coming to the United States in 1862, Alfred Marland served briefly in the Confederate Army and then, after inventing an iron band for baling cotton, moved in 1864 to Pittsburgh, where he became a wealthy iron manufacturer. Known as an enlightened employer, he served in the state legislature and as a member of the Pittsburgh Select Council for twenty years.[2]

NorthCentralOklahoma (talk) 01:01, 6 December 2022 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ Oklahoma Historical Society. "MARLAND, ERNEST WHITWORTH (1874–1941)." retrieved 05 December 2022
  2. ^ Prabook. "Ernest Whitworth Marland" retrieved 05 December 2022
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