Talk:San Marin High School

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2004 VfD[edit]

from VfD: Non notable. Sander123 09:46, 13 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I added quite a bit of information to this page, so if you didn't think the article was good enough before, I urge you to review it, and possibly change your vote. However, if you are really convinced that High Schools must have former presidents as their alumni to consider inclusion, then sadly, there is probably little I can do to make you change your mind. Houshuang 18:30, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • Strong keep. Both notable and encyclopedic. [[User:GRider|GRider\talk]] 17:00, 13 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • DELETE, it's own website fails to toot its own horn on its notability; I only see a few articles on gaybashing attesting to any notability of this school. 18:04, 13 Dec 2004 (UTC) (anonymous vote)

* If they provided information to make it a sub instead of a substub, I would vote keep. AS it is, it is rather useless. Houshuang 18:32, 13 Dec 2004 (UTC) Keep. Houshuang 20:21, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)

    • The school has received widespread media coverage as a result of bouts of hate crime targeted towards homosexual students. Keep and allow for organic development of the article. (My actual vote is up top.) [[User:GRider|GRider\talk]] 19:06, 13 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep. Schools are inheritantly notable. --Andylkl 19:23, 13 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • Delete: Much better, and much closer to a keep, for its having something about it other than walls and desks and teachers. Again: donut shops are very interesting to their patrons, but something has to set them apart before they're encyclopedic one-by-one. If this article is rewritten to actually discuss the school's hate crime problem, economics, demographics, conclusions resulting from the hate crimes, measures taken, etc., then it's a keeper. However, 2 lines of text and a link to Salon aren't going to do it. Geogre 19:28, 13 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep it. The article appears to have been modified since it was suggested for deletion and holds potential. It would be great, Geogre, if you would spend less time trying to wipe out valid articles from Wikipedia and rechannel that energy towards making it better by editing. —[[User:Radman1|RaD Man (talk)]] 22:17, 13 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Gee, thanks! I'll keep that in mind. I've only written one new article in the last 48 hours. Is that enough, or do I need to write some about the things I find in the Yellow Pages? Geogre 22:55, 13 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep and expand current article. I agree with Geogre that there still isn't much here. The original listing was IMO a sure-fire speedy candidate as it was little more than a placeholder for a weblink. - Lucky 6.9 22:40, 13 Dec 2004 (UTC)
    • My main concern here is that it was listed on VfD 8 minutes after it was created. This is only furthered by the fact that there is a noteworthy story dealing with this school. My comments weren't meant to be interpreted as sarcastic and I hope Geogre can take to heart the point I was trying to get across. —[[User:Radman1|RaD Man (talk)]] 23:03, 13 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep, expand. -- Jmabel | Talk 01:01, Dec 14, 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep and rename to San Marin High School (Novato, CA), not that I think there are other San Marin High Schools, but because all school articles should be named in that fashion. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 01:50, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • User:Dr Zen/keepschoolsDr Zen 03:13, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep.--JuntungWu 03:34, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • Merge into Novato, California and delete - Skysmith 08:37, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • Delete. Everyking 09:56, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • Delete. Few schools meet the high bar of notability required to be encyclopedic --Improv 16:59, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)
    • Comment: The above vote was left by User:Improv by way of template "{{User:Improv/vfd_school}}". But I'm sure he read the article first to make sure it was keep-worthy. —[[User:Radman1|RaD Man (talk)]] 06:55, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep. Have added more information to the article about school's policies against racial/ethnic/sexual slurs. However, my general policy is that a schools article should advise us of what makes a school notable. These might include famous graduates or people who have taught at the school, notable events that occurred at the school and educational philosophy or specialties that make the school stand out. Capitalistroadster 10:51, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep The Steve 06:27, Dec 16, 2004 (UTC)
  • keep Yuckfoo 07:13, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • Delete. An other school, with surprisingly enough some teachers, some students... Gtabary 10:40, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep, schools are notable. Wyss 12:29, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep, agree with Wyss. --L33tminion | (talk) 21:23, Dec 16, 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep. Hate-crime articles and policy demonstrate notability. --Goobergunch|? 21:37, 17 Dec 2004 (UTC)

end moved discussion

Needs improvements[edit]

The effort to delete this school in 2004 was, in part, a failure since the school was apparently notable for nothing but its documented hate crimes--nothing else was noted in the original stub. The racial and anti-gay history was subsequently deleted. It is now restored and better referenced. It makes the article very unbalanced, but the solution is to add other material about the school (history, campus, notable alumni, sports and other extracurricular activities), not to delete the embarrasing, but well-documented, news. Go to Wikipedia:WikiProject Schools for information about what should go into a high school article and for advice. Personally, I liked the bit about how the original principal used his college sports mascot and colors for San Marin; I would have put that back, too, but I didn't have a reference for it. Good luck,--Hjal (talk) 22:11, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Discussion regarding content concerning racism and homophobia & additions to article[edit]

Looking the current information on the page, it is clearly a subquality page written by biased people. The information about the school itself is limited and outdated, and a whole paragraph about Hostility in San Marin ???? I have been there for the past four years and personally know a lot of students, parents, staff there, that paragraph is completely biased and full of prejudice.

The following is what I proposed. I would have deleted the whole 2nd paragraph, but thougth I'd just add updated 2008 and leave the paragraph intake but we can, of course, delete the whole second paragraph!

San Marin High School is a high school located in Novato, California, in the United States. Novato is in Marin County.

San Marin High School is located 30 miles north of San Francisco in Novato, California, a community of approximately 52,000 residents, with an estimated median household income of over $70,000.

San Marin High School opened in 1968 in Novato. The school rests on 39.6 acres, with a total of 51 classrooms, two gymnasiums, a student center, library, college and career center, weight room, and science lab.

Athletic facilities include tennis and basketball courts, baseball and softball diamonds, soccer field and artificial turf football field and an all weather track. San Marin High School serves grades 9-12, and offers a comprehensive program of study to approximately 1040 students.

All the facilities have recently been upgraded thanks to the Facility Bond passed by Novato.

The current enrollment is 1039 wiht 76.6% White, 14.9% Hispanic, 6.4% Asian/Pacific Rim, 2.3% African American and 2.7% Others. Over the past seven years there has been an increase in the percentage of the Hispanic students corresponding to a decrease in the percentage of Caucasian students; a trend that mirrors the community changes of Novato.

The staff includes 62 certificated members including three counselors, one librarian and three administrators. The school employs 25 classified staff including six office staff, three custodians, two part-time and one full-time campus supervisor, eight instructional aides (two for ELL students, three for RSP students and three for Special Day Class students), a library clerk, a college and career center specialist and two food service employees.

San Marin has established educational objectives aimed at providing students with challenging learning experiences in academics, as well as providing assistance with choosing future educational and career choices. Students are given opportunities to take classes in performing arts, visual arts, athletics, Regional Occupational Program courses, Advanced Placement (see chart below) and Honors Courses, and Sheltered Courses. In particular, R.O.P. (Regional Occupational Program)(493 students), A.P. (453 students) and honors enrollment (140 students) has climbed dramatically. San Marin students are involved in a wide range of co-curricular and extra-curricular activities. Our active student population allows for many opportunities for parent involvement. Parent organizations include PTSA, Sports Boosters, Music Boosters, Drama Boosters, Art Boosters, the English Language Advisory Committee; These groups are very active in supporting the school.

The school has a 98.3% graduation rate. [citation needed] The school ranks in the 90th percentile of Californian high schools. [1] It has 62 teachers, 25 classfied staff and a regional occupational program. The school newspaper is called The Pony Express.

In 2001 the San Marin Football had it's first and only undefeated football season going (12-0). They won the MCAL and North Coast Section 2A Championships. San Marin recently won the 2007 MCAL Girls Tennis Champions, the 2008 Varsity Baseball NCS Champions, and JV Baseball MCAL Champions.

Past Reputation for hostility

The following information is dated. San Marin High School and, for that matter, Novato, has made great progress in this area. The fact a sports Code of Conduct was drafted following the incident below and received school-wide support quickly is one of the evidences of the changes in place. Recent WASC review has 'Humanity' quoted as one of the strengths of e San Marin High School. - Updated 2008 Sylvia Barry (talk) 05:09, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

More discussion of "Reputation for hostility"[edit]

FOR THE 2ND PARAGRAPH, yes, you took out the completely biased heading but the current heading of student and parental behavior does not describe me and my student nor does it describe the 99+% students and parents that are in San Marin.

It amazes me that you can just take the changes I put in there away and leave the biased opinion intake. San Marin is a school with 1000+ students and more parents, staff, alumni and community members. There were incidents dating back 10 years ago (before I moved into the area) and a couple very recently. The things that happened 10 years ago were brought back constantly, and the couple recent incidents were dealt with immediately and a Code of Conduct was implemented and accepted by school at large, and you insist on leaving that in there.

San Marin went through a few turbulent years of not having dedicated administrator but we now have a wonderful principal with fabulous track record, knowledge and experience as well as two great assistant principals implementing positive changes, rules and regulation for the school. Code of Conduct is one of the changes made and has been strictly followed - yes, overzealous parents were asked to leave and that set a great precedent in curbing further disruption.

My kids go / went to San Marin and the students I know personally are way more than the one or two you described, and those are wonderful caring students. And yes, there is currently a Gay and Straight Aliance Student Club and the founder of the club received the prestigious Martin Luther King full ride scholarship to NYU (he ended up going to Cal though).

I do not mind your leaving that in there but to take away my comment about the real atmosphere of the school now and the changes that were implemented as well as the WASC comment after their intensive accreditation interview showed me that you are either ignorant or biased.

So, I would like you to put the following at the beginning of the 2nd paragraph to set the record straight and that is only fair.

"The following information is dated. San Marin High School and, for that matter, Novato, has made great progress in this area. There is currently a Gay and Straight Aliance Student Club. The founder of the club received prestigious Martin Luther King scholarship and a full ride scholarship to NYU (although he chose to go to Cal instead). The fact a sports Code of Conduct was drafted following the incident below and received school-wide support quickly is one of the evidences of the changes in place. Recent WASC review has 'Humanity' quoted as one of the strengths of San Marin High School. "

If you won't, please explain your position. I did notice that Mr. Hjal (who commented in August,08 that this paragraph should not be deleted) is from Tam. A well document article but way outdated is not newsworthy anymore. If Mr. Hjal think people and cultual can not change and has to be kept to complete undermine the efforts put forth by the current school population, then it's a shame in human faith!

Also, the principal is Dr. Robert Vieth. instead of just Robert Vieth. Superintendent is also Dr. Jane La-Torre Derby instead of just Jane Derby.

Thanks! Sylvia Barry (talk) 02:47, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Ms. Barry: I'm sorry that you find this troublesome. However, you are insisting on changes that are not really in keeping with Wikipedia's style or purpose. Please check the links to Wikipedia policies and guidelines in the Welcome section that was just added to your talk page. Here are a few problems with the changes that you are trying to make:
  • Your long addition is unsourced; content added to articles needs references to reliable, verifibale sources; the WASC accreditation review might be an interesting and valuable addition, but it does not appear to be available on WASC's site; even though it was mentioned on the school's site by a writer with the same name as you[1], by the superintendant[2], and by the principal[3], there is no mention of the word "Humanity" in the stories and the review does not yet appear to have been posted as the principal said it would be.
  • Your statements about the current mood of the school might be perfectly accurate, but they are not sourced and seem to be based on your personal opinion; this is contrary to WP:NPOV
  • Your edits do not conform to WP:MOS; specifically, WP:NAMES says that names used in articles should have neither academic titles, such as "Doctor," or post-nominal letters indicating degrees, such as "PhD."
  • Articles about schools and localities are not supposed to be limited to currrent conditions and events—to be encyclopedic, they must include background and history, and they include the good with the bad; if you check the article about my high school, you will see news of racial disturbances from 1967 and of fairly recent and embarassing news about anti-gay hate messages and suicides; articles are not supposed to read like advertising copy for suburban real estate.--Hjal (talk) 12:21, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
Thank you, Mr. Hjal. I thought it might have been you who edited that out.
I completely agree with you that the article can be good and bad both. However, from when I first noticed the article about San Marin High school, I was shocked that Wikipedia would have allowed to leave such a subqualty article with nothing but a very negative article in there to note about a whole high school - the title is 'San Marin High School' afterall - before I added updated contents in. Not to mention the very hostile title which you finally took out after my note but replaced with another inadequate title. As a reader, that's what I would think you implied that is a representation of how all San Marin students and parents would behave.
As I said below, I do not object you leaving that in, as they did happen. However, the refulsal of putting a disclaimer upfront to bring the readers to the current, continue to surprise me. I would also be very interested in finding out who put that paragraph in originally.
I attended the final session when WASC made a presentation about their findings to the public. One thing they stressed was the 'HUMANITY' of San Marin High School. The panle stated that they came with a preconception from findings on the internet (probably the same source quoted by Wikipedia) and was pleasantly surprised to find out how wonderful San Marin community really is as a whole. They decided to put that in as one of the strengths of San Marin! The report was shared with Site Leadership Team (I am on that), but has not been published by WASC.
Website Articles are mostly submitted by staff, teachers, coaches, student organization and parent volunteer organizations. The name on the website is who put the articles in for security purposes (As PTSA Volunteer to work on Website update, I add those articles to the site after submission by various parties). Being a volunteer for website updates and on the Site Leadership Team, I do have the priviledge to be in the position to learn a lot more first hand information about San Marin than others.
I am glad you checked my credential, but I would encourage you to check 'ALL' my credential to really learn about me, just like what the others should learn about San Marin not by a few newspaper articles.
As a matter of fact, being from Tamalpais, I invite you to come up and visit San Marin for a few days if you want to write articles about San Marin! That is only prudent for anybody who wants to contribute in a discussion about certain subject.
I would love to find out how to insert a picture.
I do hope you find my contribution brings this article's quality up from Subquality in Wikipedia's standard, which has been there for several yars :-)
Sylvia Barry (talk) 14:51, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Pleae advise why the following paragraph 'might need to be removed'? - Per Wikipedia's standard for high school, you would like to have Alumni Info.

Thanks! Sylvia

To comply with Wikipedia's quality standards, this section may need to be removed from this article.

Please see the relevant discussion on the talk page.

J.Nadine Gracia, M.D. MSC, White House Fellow, 2008-2009

Click for Novato Advance Article[10], August 13, 2008

White House Fellowship is considered the most prestigious program for leadership and public service. The Fellowships offers exceptional young men and women first-hand experience working at the highest levels of the federal government.

Excerpt from the White House Press Release[11]

J. Nadine Gracia. Hometown: Novato, California. Nadine Gracia is a pediatrician and violence prevention researcher. She was a general pediatrics research fellow at the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia and received a Master of Science in Clinical Epidemiology from the University of Pennsylvania. Her research addresses community-level risk factors for violence and the evaluation of neighborhood interventions to reduce violence. She is an associate of the Philadelphia Collaborative Violence Prevention Center. She earned her medical degree from the University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine. She then completed pediatrics residency and served as Chief Pediatrics Resident at Children's Hospital of Pittsburgh. An advocate for minority and disadvantaged populations, she lectures nationwide on health disparities, diversity in education, and cultural competence. She is a National President Emeritus of the Student National Medical Association and a past Postgraduate Physician Trustee of the National Medical Association. She is a motivational speaker and career coach for thousands of students and physicians. She also conducts workshops throughout the country on leadership development, diplomacy, and strategic planning. She serves the community on issues of political awareness, health, and educational achievement through Delta Sigma Theta Sorority. Fluent in French and Haitian Creole, she earned a B.A. with honors in French at Stanford University.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by Sylvia Barry (talkcontribs) 22:00, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

San Marin Casualties of the September 11 attacks[edit]

Two San Marin alumni, Paul Sloan (Class of 1993) and John Keohane (1978) were identified as Casualties of the September 11 attacks by the IJ. There is a memorial for them at the school, with a related Facebook page. See also [4], [5], [6], and [7]. I'm thinking of adding them to the list of notable alumni, even though they may not have their own articles created. Any opinions?--Hjal (talk) 23:50, 7 May 2011 (UTC)

Communication and Multimedia Academy[edit]

NOTE: I apologize in advance for not citing my sources here, I do not have any other than my own experience with the Academy program. I feel it would be relevant to include a section acknowledging the history, successes and controversies surrounding the Academy at San Marin. I do not expect this section to be readily publishable in its present form, my goal is to at least get the process started.


In the late 1990s, a group of teachers (led by Mr. Harris and Mr. Fowler) applied for and secured a special technology grant to fund a new school-within-a-school, to be focused on group project-based learning.

Approximately one hundred students each year were to participate in this new program, which incorporated the use of modern technology well before most public schools had pushed to do the same. Web page development, digital video editing, and social networking were all required skills to complete the program, which was also responsible for covering English and American history curriculum.

The program was popular among its participants, but was not without detractors. Other departments within the school argued that grant funds should be shared outside the Academy. This began a long-running split between the program's proponents and opponents.

The Academy building burned down in June of 1999 [2]

In 2001, after having the third consecutive teacher fired without cause, all participating teachers resigned in protest, despite having completed plans for a new building. The next year, the building completed, the administration appointed five new teachers to the program, with minimal background in group project-based learning or multimedia applications. Not long after, the Academy was merged with San Marin's ESL (English as a second language) program. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nesabishii (talkcontribs) 20:09, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

CM academy, ten years later.[edit]

In regards to the previous apology in advance about the poorly compiled 

history of the Multimedia and Communications Academy, it is not accepted.

As one of the teachers who joined the academy for the 01-02 school year, 

the portrayal of any of the teachers and unqualified in multimedia technology and PBL (project based learning) is unsubstantiated and wrong. On the contrary, the CM Academy teachers won the Golden Bell exemplary program award that school year. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Theaetetus (talkcontribs) 21:34, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

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