Talk:Southern Association of Colleges and Schools

Selected member schools

What is the point to the reverts here? A short list would seem to add some valuable content to what is an exceedingly slight treatment of SACS. -- JJay 22:29, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Because the list doesn't need to ballon to the 13,000 listed in greater and updated detail here[[1]. Arbusto 23:41, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

I'm going to add a fact tag to that number since I have been unable to confirm it. I would point out that your link has well under 1,000 colleges (eliminating candidates, and the various campuses for the same institutions). For the time being, I've changed the list definition to colleges. -- JJay 23:50, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

How are you not able to confirm it? SACS CASI accredits over 13,000 schools and school systems throughout the United States and overseas. Today, SACS CASI is the global leader in helping schools improve student learning through accreditation. [2] It's right at the bottom of the official homepage. Arbusto 23:55, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Good and thanks for removing the tag. And how many of that number are colleges and universities? -- JJay 00:02, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

What does it matter? It "is a regional accreditor for over 13,000 public and private educational institutions ranging from preschool to college level in the Southern United States." Why are you only changing the list to college? You are arguing that a list is helpful, but excluding some for no reason. Arbusto 00:05, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

preschool to college level

Exactly...

Rayghost (talk) 04:52, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Lists of members

What's the point of keeping a list of 13,000 members? Why is the person who is arguing that the list is helpful only including colleges[3]? And why is he only including 18 schools out of that list? The link provided on the article with a list of members has statistics, dates of accreditation, accreditation expiration, and will be updated while the wikipedia list will not always. Arbusto 00:10, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

• If you want to change it to include high schools that is ok with me. It would seem that the issue is more meaningful for colleges though. Note that I have only removed two names from the list, so at no time has this list been over 100 members, let alone 13,000. -- JJay 00:15, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

I'm not saying the list has been 13,000. However, if someone wanted to make the list complete they could control-c that 48 page PDF file and paste in the list. There's no winning: either the list is going to be misleading and incomplete or you'll have a 13,000 school list. Arbusto 00:24, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Right now it is defined as selected colleges. Hence, far less than 13,000 schools. I think for the time being it should be limited to colleges for which we have pages. I don't see anything misleading about that. On a side note, it seems kind of strange to do an article on SACS and not mention any schools that it has accredited. How is this article supposed to be expanded if we can't talk about schools? And if it is going to be limited to a few lines, why do an article at all, since there is far more info on the group right on their site? -- JJay 00:33, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

There is a SACS category. Arbusto 01:49, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

So? That did not exactly answer any of my questions. -- JJay 01:50, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

On a side note, it seems kind of strange to do an article on SACS and not mention any schools that it has accredited. = There is a SACS category. Your questions make no sense. It's an article about the organization not a list nor is it about particular schools. If the reader wants a list and detail about a school's length of accreditation there is a link for that. Arbusto 03:11, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

• The category is of very little use. It also has nothing to do with this article and how it should be expanded. Right now it is only a few lines. And attempts to expand it have been regularly reverted by you. There is nothing wrong with listing some of the universities that have been accredited by SACS. Perhaps you have some other ideas on how to expand this article? But stop wasting my time with the link to the SACS site. There is more information on the SACS site than in our article, not only regarding accredited schools but for the organization overall. That should not be used as an excuse to empty the contents of this article. -- JJay 03:41, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

I don't consider a listing of 100 schools "expanding" an article and neither does wikipedia policy. So you know "Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information" or to quote another policy WP:ISNOT a "collection of internal links." Arbusto 06:25, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

• Right, so you don't have the slightest idea of how to expand this article, which is frankly an embarrassment and seems to exists just to link to the SACS site and to the SACS category. I'm also not very interested in your misinterpretation of wiki policy or your absurd exageration since the list was never 100 schools long or 13,000. -- JJay 12:19, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

• Meanwhile, back in the real world, SACS has accredited over 10,000 institutions, so a list will never be complete, and any "selected list" would need some clearly defined criteria otherwise it will be entirely arbitrary (selected list? selected byu whom? with what authority?). I linked the category in the section. Incientally, how many military coleges exactly? Of the order of one, tens, hundreds? Just zis Guy you know? 12:43, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
• There is no need to do a complete list and I have no idea why you and Arbustoo feel that it is necessary. Our category does not include 10,000 or 13,000 or 13 million schools- it only includes a handful. Is that misleading? As you know, linking to a category is against policy. However, like with the usenet posting I can look the other way. I also do not have an answer regarding military schools. Please do some research and add the info to the article. However, the more you and Arbustoo raise issues regarding having a discussion of schools related to SACS, the more ridiculous our stub becomes. In the meantime, I have added a paragraph to give people some clear examples of what SACS does. Please help expand this article -- JJay 12:53, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

As Guy asked: "Selected list? selected by whom? with what authority?" Arbusto 01:56, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

A user reverted the removal of a paragraph listing of the schools referencing the talk page. I see nothing on the talk about that paragraph. I'd like to know who selected the few schools out of 13,000 as "examples." This should be cited or else its WP:OR and should be reverted. Arbusto 01:42, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

If you see nothing on the talk regarding your removal of information from this article, I would suggest you start at the top of this page and work your way down. You will see numerous exchanges regarding this paragraph involving yourself. I can see no reason to remove verifiable data from this article at this time. -- JJay 01:48, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Please point to the reference where you offer a citation of why these few schools out of 13,000 are selected. Did you select them at random? Arbusto 01:56, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

As you know, we have already discussed this in some detail. Nevertheless, the references are meant to show that this is a real acccreditation agency that actually sets standards for real schools. It is of the utmost importance that we avoid any confusion with the many fake accreditation agencies that exist. You will agree, I am sure, that we need to demarcate the good from the bad here and it is essential that our readers understand that SACS is the real deal. Perhaps you are not aware of the problem, but there are numerous fake associations that claim to act as accreditors- please see List of unrecognized accreditation associations of higher learning for further information. If you are aware of the problem, I have to wonder if your removal of verifiable data from this article is not an attempt to classify SACS with its fake rivals and to confuse our readers. Given the many vandals and sock puppets that constantly try to remove verifiable information from this type of sensitive article, I would ask that you not contribute to their efforts by reducing this article to a bare stub. Otherwise, I would be most interested in hearing your ideas on how we can expand this article to a respectable length-- JJay 02:44, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Considering I created the article List of unrecognized accreditation associations of higher learning for wikipedia users to differ between the legitmate and unrecognized I know it is important. Please point to the reference where you offer a citation of why these few schools out of 13,000 are selected. Did you select them at random? The category lists all the schools mentioned in the article. I know because I added them to it. Arbusto 07:15, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

List?

Why is there a massive list all of the sudden is this not the exact same thing as on the catagory page? do we need this and if so can a suggestion be made as to how the clean it up a bit. Personally i don't see what the point of it is but i noticed the talk page was a little heated so i figured i'd ask before i went and changed something.Trey 19:00, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

I boldly deleted the list, rather than get involved in yet another year of inconclusive discussion. The list was both overly long and woefully incomplete. There was no encyclopedic purpose in providing a partial list (presumably selected on an arbitrary basis) of accredited institutions, and it could be perceived as defamatory toward the omitted schools. Furthermore, the category and the link to the list of accredited colleges -- http://www.sacscoc.org/pdf/weblist0106alpha.pdf -- make the list unnecessary.--orlady 23:00, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Discussion-The addition of links of lists for each SACS area?

I see that I am very late to this very intense discussion. If I'm understanding correctly, the issue wanting to put a list up of all SACS-member institutions (public/private PreK-12, colleges/universities), but how to do it with the large number of institution. And the work that would be involved to make such lists would be a problem; if that is the jest of the problem? I think I've co,e up with a possible solution. I went to the SACS website and they have listings.

One is located in the Commission of Colleges page (the higher education arm of SACS). It's actually a map of the SACS states and either you click the state on the map or there's a hypertext link that takes you to the membership Directory. There is a PDF file that's linked that has all current information on not only accredited schools, but schools that are in applicant status or candidate status. Or, there's a link to where you can do active context searches. The active search is updated daily. The PDF Membership file is probably updated once a year.

The second listing is for the public/private (and charter) school SACS CASI, or the Southern Association of Colleges and Schools Council on Accreditation and School Improvement (the PreK-12 arm of SACS). There is a link to a page that has all of the SACS member states and the international members as well. You search by state.

So, what say you all?

Rayghost (talk) 05:23, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

Discussion-The addition of a section for AdvancedED;combined org of NCA CASI, SACS CASI & NSSE

I think that the addition of this section is very important because 2 of the main regional accrediting bodies and one national educational evaluation organization have formed. It is very relevant because "it is the parent organization of NCA CASI & SACS CASI". This would me probably modifying the current sections on the Commission of Schools & the Council on Accreditation and School Improvement to reflect it.

Good idea?

Rayghost (talk) 05:36, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

How to improve this article

I have a few suggestions for how this article can be improved. These are based on my personal use cases as a higher ed student information systems administrator: I often visit accreditors' Wikipedia pages looking for help in maintain database records for both the accreditor and accredited institutions. While this is a very specific use case, I'd imagine the general needs of most people visiting this page are the same - they're looking for a quick overview of the accreditor and links to official sources for the purpose of verifying some random tidbit of educational data (transcripts, degree accreditation, etc.).

Name and Structure History

Accrediting bodies seem to change names and acronyms every few years; this information is often buried in their ugly websites. A quick overview of every name and acronym they've ever had and when the names changed as well as their current name, acronyms, and corporate structure is very useful. Accrediting bodies also have a habit of splitting themselves as they grow and expand their missions. Information (and citations!) about whether accreditation statuses were transferred during these restructurings is also very helpful, as I often encounter old documents citing now non-existent branches of an accrediting body.

Accreditor's Accreditation

A list of all notable authorities that recognize SACS would be helpful. This article has some, but it lacks citations. I need a primary source before I can put something into a database.

Official Links

Every accreditor has a member search portal somewhere, but they're not always easy to find. A direct link to the official membership database is far more useful than a randomly picked list of accredited colleges, since I need a primary source. bendodge (talk) 16:41, 30 September 2016 (UTC)

Removal from the refimprove list

Hello fellow Wikipedians, I had removed the article from the refimprove list. I added 3 sources and expanded it a bit. Feel free to fix anything that is wrong with it, if my edit did something wrong.--Biografer (talk) 20:11, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

I notice your additions summarized actions taken against various schools in 2018. I don't want to delete those paragraphs myself, but I have doubts they're truly encyclopedic. For instance, why just 2018 and not actions of SACS-COC for previous years? John Foxe (talk) 03:10, 14 February 2019 (UTC)