Talk:Suicide

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Good article Suicide has been listed as one of the Natural sciences good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
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May 25, 2005 Featured article candidate Not promoted
March 2, 2013 Good article nominee Listed
Current status: Good article
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Committed Suicide vs Died by Suicide[edit]

Using the word committed to refer to someone who died as a result of suicide is dated, and frankly offensive. Suicide is not a crime that one commits. I have gone through the article and replaced it with things such as 'died by' 'carried out', 'sought/seeking a death by' etc. A Canadian Toker (talk) 21:28, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

This is a perennial matter. Perhaps someone will find it on the talk page previously. Do we really have to go through this every few months? Fiddle Faddle 22:21, 15 July 2014 (UTC)
I do not have a strong opinion one way or the other. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 22:38, 15 July 2014 (UTC)
We had a lengthy discussion of this and consensus was against wholesale removal of "commit".GideonF (talk) 09:12, 23 July 2014 (UTC)
Is the consensus you are citing the one I just read from 2004? I don't think that old consensus should trump new consensus. - A Canadian Toker (talk) 05:07, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

EDIT: Talk:Suicide/Archive_2#NPOV_effect_of_the_term_.22commit.22_suicide 05:09, 24 July 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by ACanadianToker (talkcontribs)

Maybe try a RfC. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 05:16, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
Perhaps before a rfc I could read some articulated reasoning against my bold? - A Canadian Toker (talk) 05:46, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
This is similar to not changing text from British to American and vis versa with a good reason. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 06:02, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
@ACanadianToker: Perhaps you would look through the archives, then? Perhaps you would also look at the multiple meanings of the verb 'to commit'. Of course you can go to an RFC. Of course we can all discuss it again. IT has, however, been done to death. Fiddle Faddle 06:47, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
The consensus I am citing is the current consensus, unchanged since exhaustive discussion in April-May 2013. If you want to try to overturn the consensus that is of course your prerogative. But you are not presenting any new arguments that were not presented and found wanting previously.GideonF (talk) 09:11, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
I'd certainly not prefer to go through this again so soon, but if other editors feel another lap around the track is merited, I suppose I can copy and paste my previous arguments... :p DonIago (talk) 13:26, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
I would appreciate a link to the relevent section of the archives. I can't seem to find the one you're all talking about. Thanks, - A Canadian Toker (talk) 14:32, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
Just searching on my name would have turned it up, but here you go. Enjoy! DonIago (talk) 15:05, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
Thank you for the link, Doniago. Considering the perennial nature of the issue I brought up I would like to propose the following as a compromise. 1. Replace committed in the lead with carried out. 2. Expand the Definitions section to include discussion of the debate about terminology. - A Canadian Toker (talk) 20:04, 23 August 2014 (UTC)
"There is discussion about the appropriateness of the term commit and its use to describe suicide. Those who object to the use of commit argue that it carries with it implications that suicide is a criminal, sinful or morally wrong act.[1] There is growing consensus that it is more appropriate to use "completed suicide," died by suicide or simply "killed him/herself" to describe the act of suicide.[2][3] Despite this, “committed suicide” or similar descriptions are the most prevalent in both scholarly research and journalism.[4][5]" - A Canadian Toker (talk) 20:04, 23 August 2014 (UTC)
  • Yes, very nice. Now look up all the other contexts in which the word "Commit" is used. Crime is just one of them. Fiddle Faddle 22:21, 23 August 2014 (UTC)
Agreed. Anyone who thinks the word "commit" implies criminality doesn't know what the word means and should commit to learning its full definition. DonIago (talk) 13:47, 25 August 2014 (UTC)
There seems to be a lot of snark and sarcasm on this talk page. It is unhelpful. While dictionary definitions are important its also important to reflect broader sources and discussions - A Canadian Toker (talk) 15:17, 26 August 2014 (UTC)
No snarking at all. Please do not make accusations about other people. The word means many different things. Cherry picking the one you dislike is a great tactic for oratory but does not work here. We have been down this road many times. Suicide is a desperate act, and one commits to it in despair, often. That it was once criminal was based on antique religious sentiments. The world has grown wiser. Fiddle Faddle 16:04, 26 August 2014 (UTC)
I would argue that as the definition of 'suicide' consistently refers to the 'intent' to end one's own life, 'suicide' is not an appropriate term for someone who died as a result of a mental illness, succumbing to the effects of that illness rather than any intention on their part. Biographies of those who have struggled with mental health are replete with examples of those who 'fought' their condition and in many cases, lost the fight. Clearly people such as this did not intend to end their own life, and their death should not be attributed to 'suicide'. Following that logic, even 'Died by Suicide' would not be appropriate, but something akin to the manner in which death by a medical condition is reported, such as 'Died of/from <mental illness>/mental health difficulties'. I think it's imperative that perception of mental health be steered away from the misconception that those who suffer from it do so by choice, phrases like 'committed suicide' and 'took their own life' should be discouraged as much as humanly possible. The term 'suicide' should be reserved for those who unquestionably did so by choice, such as suicide attacks used in warfare. 62.31.13.60 (talk) 15:33, 17 October 2014 (UTC)
Not the way the sources use the term. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 15:58, 17 October 2014 (UTC)
I'll admit my perspective on this is perhaps at the extreme end of the scale, I guess it depends on how you define 'intent'; by 'intent', I'm referring more to what a person would want if they were of sound mind. I guess 'intent' in the generally accepted definition of suicide refers more to the expected consequences of a person's actions, regardless of what prompted those actions. Anyway, the key point that I'm absolutely certain of, is that someone who dies as a result of mental health problems should NEVER be considered to have chosen to do so. It's frightening how many among the medical profession, even in psychiatry, that assume a person with mental health difficulties can choose to not suffer from the consequences of their condition. 62.31.13.60 (talk) 16:33, 17 October 2014 (UTC)
  1. ^ Ball, P. Bonny (2005). "The Power of words". Canadian Association of Suicide Prevention. Retrieved 16 May 2013. 
  2. ^ Beck, A.T.; Resnik, H.L.P. & Lettieri, D.J, eds. (1974). "Development of suicidal intent scales". The prediction of suicide. Bowie, MD: Charles Press. p. 41. ISBN 978-0913486139. 
  3. ^ "Recommendations for Reporting on Suicide" (PDF). National Institute of Mental Health. 2001. Retrieved 15 May 2013. 
  4. ^ Olson, Robert (2011). "Suicide and Language". Centre for Suicide Prevention. InfoExchange (3): 4. Retrieved 15 May 2013. 
  5. ^ Beaton, Susan; Forster, Peter; Maple, Myfanwy (February 2013). "Suicide and Language: Why we Shouldn't Use the 'C' Word". In Psych (Melbourne: Australian Psychological Society) 35 (1): 30–31. 


WHY on earth is this article riddled with "commited suicide", suicide hasn't been a crime for a very long time, so people cannot "commit" suicide. All mental health charities advise against using the work "commit". Please edit the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pete5677 (talkcontribs) 14:52, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

  • n.b. The latest edition of the AP Stylebook proscribes "committed suicide". --BDD (talk) 13:57, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 March 2015[edit]

In section 8.1 Legislation, the statement "Physician-assisted suicide is legal in the state of Washington" is misleading and should say "Physician-assisted suicide is legal in the state of Washington for people with terminal diseases" (or any other grammatical arrangement of this you might feel is better = GAB).

The statement that follows it "In Oregon people with terminal diseases may request medications to help end their life" should then probably say "Also in Oregon people with [...]" (GAB) so that of course the statement doesn't sound ignorant of the other and vice versa. Lxxdr (talk) 23:16, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

Thanks and done. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 23:44, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

Protected edit with suicide prevention hotline at the top of page?[edit]

I understand that Wikipedia is meant as an encyclopedia, and that a note with the Suicide prevention number wouldn't fit the regular style of articles, but considering the subject matter would it be remiss to include it? Not anything flashy or big, just a quick note like what happens on Google when you search suicide, placed right under the title of the page. I just would like some opinions before doing things one way or another. This probably wouldn't be a bad idea for the other languages as well.

The Google note is just this:


Need help? United States:

1 (800) 273-8255

National Suicide Prevention Lifeline

Hours: 24 hours, 7 days a week

Languages: English, Spanish

Website: www.suicidepreventionlifeline.org — Preceding unsigned comment added by Badkarma12 (talkcontribs) 17:35, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

This has been discussed. The answer is no. Look at the top of this talk page, at the box with the red border, and then the archives. One such discussion is here: Talk:Suicide/Archive_6#RfC:_Crisis_hotline_link. — Jeraphine Gryphon (talk) 18:45, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

Criminally punishable[edit]

I It was the left over family that was punished User:Nyttend Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 22:32, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

? Nyttend (talk) 01:19, 12 June 2015 (UTC)
Sorry corrected. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 01:51, 12 June 2015 (UTC)
Ah, okay; since it's not illegal anymore in Canada, I thought perhaps you were making some sort of weird joke. Nyttend (talk) 12:36, 12 June 2015 (UTC)
No simply missed a letter. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 23:15, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

Bad Math[edit]

The article states that "Approximately 0.5% to 1.4% of people die by suicide, a mortality rate of 11.6 per 100,000 persons per year." If it's about 1% of people, shouldn't that be 1,000 people per 100,000? The figure seems WAY off. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wetreplies (talkcontribs) 10:07, 18 June 2015 (UTC)