Talk:Those Were the Days (song)

Two queries

1. Why do we say "possibly of Russian origin". It is definitely of Russian origin. It is a folk song called Дорогой длинною ("Dorogoi dlinnoyu"), and all Russians older than 45 would know it off by heart.

After a little digging I find I'm wrong. But only about it being a folk song. It's definitely Russian, but the composer is known. It was written by Boris Fomin (1900-1948) with words by the poet Konstantin Podrevskii. I'll make the necessary update to the article. JackofOz 13:18, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

2. The link to the detailed history of the song does not work. JackofOz 13:02, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

This is a Russian song - not a Russian folk song. The English words are a free translation of the original typically Russian melancholic theme. It has nothing to to with "the passing of the golden folk days of Dylan, Paxton, Ochs, and The Clancy Brothers & Tommy Makem". Incidentally they weren't "past" - but very current - in 1968! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.197.15.138 (talk) 09:37, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

JackofOz: Thanks for the clarification, and thanks for pointing out that a song with a known composer cannot, by definition, be a folk song (although it can be modeled on folk music). That would seem obvious, but, unfortunately, nowadays a lot of people call a folk song anything sung with a steel-string acoustic guitar accompaniment.

Unsigned commentator: By 1968, the "folk boom" (the late-fifties-to-early-sixties tail end of the decades-long "folk revival") had passed. Dylan had long left folk music (and folk-modeled music); Ochs's career had greatly declined; and Tom Paxton had seen better days. What that might have to with this song would probably depend, I suppose, on Gene Raskin's connection to the Greenwich Village scene. TheScotch (talk) 02:26, 6 January 2016 (UTC)

Continuing: Although, as JackofOz discovered and reported, the song in question is not a folk song, it may well be that Raskin thought it was. It certainly appears that some people assumed it one. (That wouldn't in my mind ethically excuse his copyrighting the music, but as that sort of practitioner he would have had plenty of company in the various folk scenes.) TheScotch (talk) 02:01, 7 January 2016 (UTC)

Another query

Can anyone tell me the movie on which this song was a sidetrack? It was with a British actress.

The film was "Innocents in Paris", released in 1953. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.11.13.18 (talk) 02:05, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Yet Another query

Who decided this song has a "klezmer feel"?? How do they arrive at that? I've heard a good deal of Klezmer music and this is something that has never occurred to me, ever. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.34.134.114 (talk) 08:27, 25 November 2015 (UTC)

If you've heard a good deal of klezmer music and this doesn't sound like klezmer to you and there is no valid objective citation associating the arrangement with klezmer, I think you should feel free to remove the passage in question. I'm reluctant to remove it myself because I have not heard a good deal of klezmer music. TheScotch (talk) 02:30, 6 January 2016 (UTC)

Other songs with the same tune?

Is it just me, or does this song have the same tune as the Jewish children's tune "8 days of Hannukah"?

Cannot verify since I don't own a copy, but Francis Goya may have performed this as 'The Long Road' Tim 67.104.200.131 (talk) 04:27, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Cover versions

• also from Alexandra (Germany)

Fair use rationale for Image:Those Were the Days Sandie.jpg

Image:Those Were the Days Sandie.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 18:52, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Raskin2.jpg

Image:Raskin2.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 22:19, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

The Clancys?

I made a search for the Clancys, and the only match I got was The Clancy Brothers. Is that the same group? --128.39.12.150 (talk) 14:14, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Unneccissary?

This part of the article is poorly written and the end sounds ridiculous. "Those Were the Days" was converted to a chant by Carsi,a supporter group of Besiktas JK, Istanbul. It is named as "Opera for Fener" and teases with Fenerbahce, another Istanbul team. The video of chant broadcasts on Youtube and has been watched more than one million times[2]. It is regarded as most creative cheer of all time in Turkish sport history and almost song in every cities all over the world not only by Besiktas supporters but also by non-Turkish people and supporters of other competitors of Fenerbahce. [3]. It is observed that even Fenerbahce supporters can not stop themselves joining the cheer when it is song by a group around. This phenomena could not be explained by sociologists yet and some substantial research is being conducted in different institutes." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.177.57.133 (talk) 23:04, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

The last part sounds ridiculous but the first part is a fact. I think we should rewrite it like: "Those Were the Days" was converted to a chant by Carsi,a supporter group of Besiktas JK, Istanbul. It is named as "Opera for Fener" and teases with Fenerbahce, another Istanbul team. The video of chant broadcasts on Youtube and has been watched more than one million times[2]. It is regarded as most creative cheer of all time in Turkish sport history and almost song in every cities all over the world not only by Besiktas supporters but also by non-Turkish people and supporters of other competitors of Fenerbahce. [3].

I think if something has been watched more than 1 million time then it should be in the wiki entry. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nkenanh (talk • contribs) 15:55, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Re: "I think if something has been watched more than 1 million time then it should be in the wiki entry."

No, it shouldn't. Wikipedia is not a promotional outlet for Youtube. TheScotch (talk) 02:33, 6 January 2016 (UTC)

Brings Superjeilezick?

The song "Superjeilezick" by Brings is similar, but not the same one. I think it should be removed from the list. See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9UPasqbtKU —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rodeng (talk • contribs) 09:17, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

merge

Please note : There is a discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Songs/coverversions with the purpose of trying to establish a standard rule for merge/separate different versions of the same song. Please make known your opinions on the matter. --Richhoncho (talk) 14:39, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

Timeline

I fail to understand how the song could lament "the passing of the golden folk days of Dylan, Paxton, Ochs ..." if it was performed by the Limeliters several years before those golden folk days ever happened! The Limeliters first recorded the song in 1962 -- coincidentally, the same year that saw the first albums by both Dylan and Paxton. (Ochs didn't record his first album for another two years.) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.64.101.195 (talk) 04:48, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

I was just about to make the same comment. I think it is a song about nostalgia in more general terms. My Russian stepmother told me that the Russian original is also a nostalgic lament. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.44.52.149 (talk) 17:55, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

What's more, since it was originally written in the 1920s, according to this article, the original author was not likely to have heard of any of them. It's not lamenting those specific musicians, or musicians at all. It's about the passing of time and how we deal with aging, in part. I've tagged that bit with {{cn}} and will revise the heck out of it in a few days or a week if necessary. Even if someone manages to come up with a cite that says Raskin was thinking of them, it's he that was thinking of them, not the lyrics he wrote. Such a cite might be really referring to American Pie, which is closer to that idea from what I'm told by young people who were cognizant at the time of events of the 1950s through 1960s. But it's not this song. - Denimadept (talk) 06:08, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

Re: "What's more, since it was originally written in the 1920s, according to this article, the original author was not likely to have heard of any of them."

That's completely beside the point. You're referring to an entirely different lyric. TheScotch (talk) 02:35, 6 January 2016 (UTC)

Violetta Villas

Violetta Villas died in this year, so please correct the info 194.117.241.30 (talk) 22:12, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

Hungarian band Dolly Roll, etc

Presumably Dolly Roll are not notable artists as they don't yet have an article here. I'd suggest their place in this list, however, as with all those now removed as being "non-notable", was simply to demonstrate the width of the coverage given to this song across the world. In case anyone wants to hear "Ábrándos szép napok", it's: here. I'd agree with the need for some kind of reliable sources for all the artists mentioned, but wholesale deletion of non-English speaking artists seems to be missing the point somewhat. We have to wait until they all get a Wikipedia article? Hmmm, not sure about that Martinevans123 (talk) 20:22, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

Personnally, I have no problems with a "cover versions" section in an article (and I'm not against non-English covers or covers by little known artists) but a long random list like this one is, in my humble opinion, a bit too long to read comfortably and I chose removing artists without a Wikipedia article in order to reduce its lenght and therefore to make it more readable. As you may have noticed, I only removed a small part of the section. I think the "width of the coverage" is clearly demonstrated throughout all those "few" examples still on the list. ;)

You can restore some cover versions if you manage to find a source for each one, including Dolly Roll, but keep in mind other editors systematically remove non notable or unsourced/poorly sourced covers from songs articles... I find this kind of edit exaggerated, especially if the artist itself is notable and the cover backed by a reliable source... But it seems to be like that. Synthwave.94 (talk) 23:00, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

The list may be long - that's because many people have recorded the song. But why exactly is it "random"? Martinevans123 (talk) 16:26, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

Oops, I don't know why I used that word (sometimes I write so fast I add huge mistakes in my sentences ^^). Only wanted to say a "long list". ;) Synthwave.94 (talk) 17:02, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

I perfectly know Дорогой длинною / "Those Were the Days" was covered by hundreds of artists. But is it really necessary to mention them all ? Don't think so. Synthwave.94 (talk) 17:06, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

Hundreds? Do you have a source? lol. I'd suggest that at least one example of each non-English language would be reasonable (unless notable singers/ groups are involved). I think you were also in a bit of a hurry in deleting then all instead of, say, adding tags and asking for inputs here. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:20, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

Countless times if you prefer, but the idea is the same anyway : this song has been covered over and over by multiples artists from all around the world. As you suggested, adding one "notable" example of each non-English language version of the song would be enough to show how famous/influential is the song.

In a bit of hurry ? Not really. I simply wanted to clean this section up to reduce its length, nothing else. So I chose removing artists without a Wikipedia article. On the other hand, I don't think adding extra tags would be appropriate as there's already a "Refimprove" tag at the top of the section since July 2013. The best thing to do is to add sources (as reliable as possible). If you can do so then go ahead. I can help you as far as I can but I'm not sure it would be possible to find a source for each artist. Synthwave.94 (talk) 19:49, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

Oh, help. Yes, thanks. I'm sure you know how much easier it is to search for things still in the article? No, I don't expect to find a WP:RS source for every entry either. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:56, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

I'd remind other editors that only nine of the items in the list of (currently) 72 "Other versions" are currently supported by any source. Until sources are or or not found, especially for artists with no article, it's all rather subjective as to which may or may not warrant deletion. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:06, 21 June 2014 (UTC)

• Actually no, it's not subjective which warrant inclusion, anything without a reference is subject to deletion. Plus one assumes that the recording referred to is in some way notable. You may also like to consider which has the most "other recordings" an article that says there are "over a hundred recordings" or one that lists 100 non-notable artists? --Richhoncho (talk) 15:20, 21 June 2014 (UTC)

If two artists are listed who have no Wikipedia article and no sources to support their entry, on what basis can a decision be made to delete one and not the other? Additionally, why should it matter which article has the most "other recordings"?Martinevans123 (talk) 15:45, 21 June 2014 (UTC)

• Easy No references delete BOTH. As for listing so many recordings is just fluff and padding, tells us nothing more about the song if a version was recording by artist A on their album B - with or without references and irrespective of language or country. --Richhoncho (talk) 16:02, 21 June 2014 (UTC)

Ah yes, very easy. But why not look for a reference? The fact that a Russian song has been recorded in, say, Vietnamese seems to me, to be notable in itself. Providing the year, the artists and the album just adds support for it being a fact. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:10, 21 June 2014 (UTC)

• Ouch, that nearly borders against WP:AGF, but no matter, I repeat a long list of artists who have performed this or any other song does not improve the article. In fact it is frowned on (and if I remember where the guideline is I shall share!) and why editors regularly chop the lists back down to size --Richhoncho (talk) 16:14, 21 June 2014 (UTC)

Just deleting items as they have no source doesn't sound like good practice, AGF or not AGF. But yes, please do share. And what is the optimum "size"? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:20, 21 June 2014 (UTC)

Moody Blues and Donovan?

The it.wiki artile on Mary Hopkin suggests that the song was offered to both The Moody Blues and to Donovan, by McCartney, and references Barry Miles' Paul McCartney - Many Years From Now, Rizzoli, Milano 1997, p. 362. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:28, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

No Wikipedia article is a valid source for another Wikipedia article (or anything else for that matter). Why would McCartney offer the song to the Moody Blues and Donovan when he knew darn well that those two acts scarcely ever, if at all, recorded material by others? Is there any real evidence that the song was even McCartney's to offer? If it had already been commercially recorded by Gene Raskin, The Moody Blues and Donovan could have legally recorded it any time they liked without McCartney's or anyone else's permission as long as they paid the legal author(s) royalties at the legally set royalty rate. (I just checked: For what it's worth, by the way, the Italian Wikipedia does not say that McCartney "offered" the song to the Moody Blues and Donovan; it says he "suggested" the song to them, a very different--and trivial--thing.)TheScotch (talk)

The Barry Miles book, page 455, says, "He [Mccartney] suggested it ["Those Were the Days"] to the Moody Blues but nothing came of it, and later in India he played it to Donovan, who loved it but didn't get round to recording it." There's a big difference between offered and suggested, and what we're left with is not really worth including, in my opinion. (Bear in mind that the Miles book is mostly based on interviews with McCartney. Maybe McCartney thought Donovan was seriously considering the song, but I myself doubt it. In any case, in the event he didn't touch it, which makes this non-news.) TheScotch (talk) 02:21, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

McCartney purchased rights?

Re: "Paul McCartney frequented the club and, after the formation of the Beatles' own Apple Records label, recorded the song with Mary Hopkin, McCartney's agent having purchased the song rights from Raskin's."

According to long established American copyright law, when a song is already published or commercially recorded, anyone can re-record it as long as he pays royalties (the royalty rate is set by law). By this standard McCartney wouldn't need to purchase rights to have Hopkin record this song. (I don't know British copyright law, but I would be surprised to find that it differs in this respect very much--Raskin's copyright would, of course, be an American copyright.) Not to put too fine a point on it, this passage sounds very dubious. Without a valid citation I think it should go. I'll wait a while and see if anyone can dig one up. TheScotch (talk) 02:51, 6 January 2016 (UTC)

FWIW It's worth there isn't a "second recorded version" provision in UK Law, however in practice it works the same as the US. A search of Ascap shows the publishing rights now being held by Essex Music Inc and none of the Beatle/McCartney material appears to be with Essex. This suggests to me that whatever the conversation (and I lean to there being no conversation) between McCartney & others, he had no financial interest. Unless it can be referenced take it out. --Richhoncho (talk) 03:50, 6 January 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for the clarification. I wasn't, by the way, at first interpreting "having purchased the song rights" to mean, necessarily, "having bought the publishing rights"--it just sounded nebulous to me--, but at bit after I wrote my comment it occurred to me he might well have done that for the gravy (anticipating a hit). If a valid source can be found showing that McCartney did at one time have the publishing, then it seems to me the Wikipedia article should still be altered to specify what McCartney's having the publishing really meant. (I just ordered from the library the Barry Miles book referred to in the above section. I'll report what it says when it comes.) TheScotch (talk) 01:41, 7 January 2016 (UTC)

Okay, I'm back with the book. On page 455 it says, "Paul [McCartney] wrote to Gene Raskin and sent a tape of the tune ["Those Were the Days"]. 'I [Mccartney] asked, "Who wrote that?" and he said, "Well, we [Raskin and his wife] did. It's a Russian melody arranged by us and we put the words to it." ' David Platz at Essex Music, the publishers of the song, had no lead sheets or demos but he contacted Raskin, who quickley wrote a lead sheet. Paul and Peter Asher, whose job it was to look after Hopkin, found an arranger and Paul decided to produce the record himself." It certainly appears as if Essex has always had the publishing. I'm changing the article accordingly. TheScotch (talk) 02:10, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

Original lyric

Below, apparently, is an English translation of the original Russian lyric. As you can see, Raskin's English lyic is not a translation of the original Russian lyric:

As sung by A.Vertinskiy:

(We) Used to ride in a three-horse carriage with bells (tinkling)/And lights were blinking in the distance/I wish I could go with you (again), falcons/To clear my soul off all my grief

(Going down) that long road on a moonlight night with that song that is flying away, ringing/And with that old seven-string one (guitar)/That troubled me so much at nights

Living such life without joy and torture,/I recollect the years that passed by/And your silver hands in that three-horse carriage which went away for good...

Refrain: (same as above)

Days are passing by, multiplying my sorrows,/It's so hard for me to forget the past/And one day the day will come, my dear,/When you are going to bury me...

Refrain: (as above)

An abstract of this information should be included in the text of the article. As written now, it's unclear whether the English and Russian versions are completely different (they're not; they share a general theme) or just a little different (also not quite true; the images are very dissimilar). The existing text suggests the two lyrics are entirely different (i.e., "not a translation"), and then offers a thematic summary that suggests they're largely the same. That confusion brought me here, and it's reasonable to assume other readers will have the same issue.

I won't make the change myself because my Russian is too weak to verify the accuracy of translations, but it would be great if someone better qualified than I would add a line or two of precisions on the actual difference between Raskin's version and the original. Laodah 00:27, 31 December 2016 (UTC)

The Limeliter's 1962 Folk Matinee LP including "Those Were the Days"

AllMusic Review by Cary Ginell  [-]

This was the third release for the Limeliters in 1962, a rigorous schedule by today's standards, but not for the '60s, when groups often produced an album every three or four months. It's not their best, but this studio album does have its moments. As their career progressed, the Limeliters' repertoire got more and more eclectic. Gottlieb, Glenn Yarbrough, and Alex Hassilev were all interested in many types of musical styles, and did what they could to introduce a variety on all of their albums (they even sing in German on this album). A couple of gems stand out on this album: most notably, the jaunty, nonsensical "Funk," learned by Lou Gottlieb from his mother, and Pete Seeger's musical adaptation of the words from the Book of Ecclesiastes, which appears under the title "To Everything There Is a Season." (The Byrds would electrify the song and retitle it "Turn! Turn! Turn!" three years later.) There is also one of the first English versions of a Russian folk song [sic!] called "Darogoy Dalyonu," sung by Hassilev in an adaptation by Gene Raskin called "Those Were the Days." It would later become a hit for Paul McCartney protege Mary Hopkin in 1968.

Gene and Francesca recording of "Those Were the Days"

The "Gene Raskin" entry by one Jason Ankeny at AllMusic says this: "During the early '60s Raskin and his wife played Greenwich Village folk clubs under the name Gene & Francesca, releasing an eponymous LP on Tetragrammaton in 1962; the album included 'Those Were the Days,' a tune of either Russian or Ukrainian origins traditionally known as 'Dorogoj Dlinnoyu' and dating back to the turn of the 20th century." This http://bsnpubs.com/la/tetragrammaton/tetragrammaton.html Internet article, however, says that "Tetragrammaton was founded in 1968". If that is so, AllMusic must be wrong; the album Gene & Francesca could not have been released on that label in 1962. Discogs http://www.discogs.com/Gene-And-Francesca-Gene-And-Francesca/release/3985553 has the Gene & Francesca album being released in "the late 1950s" on Electra and not including "Those Were the Days". On the other hand, it shows http://www.discogs.com/Gene-And-Francesca-Hello-Love/release/4088648 a Gene & Francesca album called Hello Love being released on Tetragrammaton in 1969 and including "Those Were the Days". None of these sources seem to me anywhere near unimpeachable, but I think the Wikipedia article really needs to specify when, on what label, and under what name Gene and Francesca recorded and released "Those Were the Days". Based on what I've seen so far, Discogs seems most likely to have the story straight. I'm going to put its information in the Wikipedia article and hope that eventually we can get either stronger verification or a strong refutation. TheScotch (talk) 07:35, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

Article structure

I think there is too much about the song's history in the opening section - that should become a separate subheading. -- Beardo (talk) 00:13, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

I agree. Have added one. Is that batter? Martinevans123 (talk) 00:18, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

Looks fine to me. TheScotch (talk) 06:38, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

The Brothers Karamazov 1958 movie

I found several sources maintaining the song was featured in this adaptation of the Dostoevsky novel, and, too hastily it seems, added this information to the Wikipedia article. I just watched the entire movie and never came upon the song, so I'm removing the information for now. It could be the sources are confusing the song with another very Russian, minor-key song that is played and sung several times in the film, but Maria Schell never sings that one either; she only dances to it at one point. It could be, on the other hand, that the "The Long Road" somehow got edited out of the version of the film I saw (a "TV rip" on Youtube), but the former explanation seems more likely to me. TheScotch (talk) 06:56, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

Theodore Bikel?

The current first entry in the "Recordings" section of this article says that Theodore Bikel recorded the original Russian version of this song in 1959, and there's a citation listing a large selection of the Electra records catalog, roughly in chronological order. I find two Theodore Bikel records there from 1959, More Jewish Folk Songs and Bravo Bikel!. The track listings for neither include a song called "Dorogoi dlinnoyu". TheScotch (talk) 08:33, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

I think the whole "recordings" section bloated and providing little or no encyclopedic information. A couple of days ago I did start to trim but decided you or somebody else working on the article would do it in due course. I did intend to keep the Bikel entry, but can't verify it's authenticity. Cheers. --Richhoncho (talk) 11:09, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

I sometimes think WP:SONGCOVER is overly restrictive. We seem to be sacrificing encyclopaedic coverage for what looks like a neat article on "a topic". If items can be supported by good sources, I don't see why all major covers could be "discussed" and more minor covers simply listed in a drop-down list. It's often a a bit of a grey area as to which covers are "more notable". But I guess the counter-argument is that there are plenty of other websites which list every cover. It's a bit of a recipe for controversy (e.g. like over at Money (That's What I Want), etc. etc.?) Martinevans123 (talk) 12:00, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

If you view WP as nothing more than a list of songs and who played them, then I would have to agree with you. BUT... WP is not a discography- there are other sites that do that far better than WP can or should, This song is notable because of Mary Hopkin, Gene Raskin and perhaps one or two other people, not every act that thought it could be played live or be an album filler, or should be added to an album because it will make more money - there should be a reason to add a cover version and not just a link to second hand songs and/or allmusic. Let's take one entry in this list - 1995 Cynthia Lennon. Now I challenge you to find one reason, without transgressing WP:NOTINHERITED as to why that entry should be in the article. --Richhoncho (talk) 13:10, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

I tried to make it clear that I don't think WP is that. I just don't see why it could not do both things. People say discogs "can't be trusted", as it's free to edit. At least in a WP, there'd be a chance that sources had been checked. Here's a little song I inherited from YouTube (38,833 hits!!) Martinevans123 (talk) 14:15, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

So an unauthorised posting to YouTube with 38,833 views makes it notable (That link actually says 1421 views, but there are other unauthorised postings...). Even then there is also a picture of John WP:NOTINHERITED? So tell me about the importance the Cynthia Lennon recording had on culture, the charts, perhaps there was something that musicologists discussed about her particular recording? No it is totally insignificant and without merit and not worth mentioning. --Richhoncho (talk) 14:29, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

Great to see you've retained a sense of humour amidst all this argument (?) I claim nothing. Cynthia's version sounds fine to me. And of course it's made all the more poignant by the multiple WP:NOTINHERITED pictures of John. Those stuffy "musicologists" are just missing out, aren't they. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:59, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

I'd say that in this particular case (and in this particular case only), every commercially released recording before Hopkin's 1968 recording is not merely notable but actually critical--that is, unless somehow someone is able to discover a large number of these (in that case we'd have to pick representative samples), and I don't see that happening any time soon. The significance of recordings that came after Hopkin's recording should be judged on an individual basis, and I doubt very many will prove to have much. By that time everyone knew the song and naturally a great many singers were bound to record it. Any intelligent Wikipedia reader will take that for granted; we don't need to prove it to him with examples. Of course it's notable that the Hopkin's recording was a big hit, but even that is not all that interesting in and of itself. Lots of recordings are big hits. The truly interesting thing here is the song's checkered international history on its way (so to speak) to Hopkin, and right now we're facing major gaps in this intriguing story. At any rate, however many recordings we mention, it's vital that the information about them be accurate. A citation does not in and of itself ensure that. All citations must be checked. TheScotch (talk) 04:51, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

Other language versions

The article says "McCartney also recorded Hopkin singing "Those Were The Days" in five other languages for release in their respective countries;" (that's a semi colon) Previously we had six versions listed, including versions for Afghanistan and Iran (with other artists specified - the Iranian one is notable). I suspect these last two were added on as "other language versions", but have nothing to do with Hopkin. I could understand McCartny recording other Western European language versions with Hopkin, but not Afghan or Iranian. I see this seems to be all unsourced at the moment. So maybe a good source would sort this out. I winder if discogs might clarify (although we can't use it as a source). Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:13, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

p.s. I see from the discogs listing that some of the foreign language version were also issued in Argentina, Peru, Canada and Congo! The English language version was also issued in many other countries. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:44, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

Lyric controversy "where you were" vs "who you were"

It doesn't make sense that the lyrics are, according to most, but not all, websites:
And you knew where you were then,
Girls were girls and men were men.

It makes more sense that it would be:
And you knew who you were then,
Girls were girls and men were men.

I wanted to point this out. Maybe somebody transcribed it wrong long ago and the error spread all over the Internet. 5Q5 (talk) 12:21, 28 May 2019 (UTC)

The lyrics clearly have the word "where" in them and, while unpleasantly genderist, make perfect sense as is. But this is moot as you're on the wrong page; those lyrics belong to the theme of All in the Family. Vegan4Life (talk) 10:51, 16 February 2023 (UTC)

Vera Lynn

Vera Lynn covered it. I think it's the best version. 72.10.219.246 (talk) 14:38, 1 February 2022 (UTC)

Clear case of plagiarism

Anyone who heard the Russian original can tell that it's essentially the same tune, therefore it is a clear case of plagiarism for Gene Raskin to claim sole credit for the song. This article, however, is shy about stating something that is not ambiguous. Hzh (talk) 18:03, 17 July 2022 (UTC)

Not sure there was ever a court case. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:06, 17 July 2022 (UTC)

How to link to another language version

Finnish Wikipedia has page about this song but it's not listed as a version: https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oi_niit%C3%A4_aikoja 91.153.176.92 (talk) 16:07, 22 January 2023 (UTC)

Royalties?

Once Raskin's knowing appropriation of the song's full rights came to light, what happened regarding the royalties? Did he get lyric and music royalties until the end of his life, or was it ever sorted out so Fomin's estate was reimbursed for the amount already stolen, then continue to receive royalties in perpetuity? Vegan4Life (talk) 10:38, 16 February 2023 (UTC)

Ich liebe das Leben

The melody sounds a lot like that of "Ich liebe das Leben." Was that latter based on ThWthD? Kdammers (talk) 15:57, 29 March 2024 (UTC)