Talk:Tinariwen

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to navigation Jump to search
WikiProject Biography / Musicians (Rated C-class)
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.
C-Class article C  This article has been rated as C-Class on the project's quality scale.
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by WikiProject Musicians.
 
WikiProject Africa / Mali (Rated C-class)
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Africa, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Africa on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
C-Class article C  This article has been rated as C-Class on the project's quality scale.
 ???  This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by WikiProject Mali.
 

Tone[edit]

This article reads as promotional for the band, and indeed even reads as pro-Tuareg. Will see what edits I can make.203.218.39.15 (talk) 14:12, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Edit: also, what does "Muammar al-Gaddafi's camps of Tuareg rebels" mean? Did Gaddafi (sp) setthe camps up because the Tuaregs rebelled against him, or was he supporting them? Again, I suspect the politics behind this line and this article.203.218.39.15 (talk) 14:14, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Well, the bulk of the article is copied from the band's website ([1]). This is legally allowed under a Creative Commons license, but I don't see the need or point of mirroring the band's website (WP:NOTMIRROR). -- Gyrofrog (talk) 03:37, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

"Refugee camps" must be some euphemism. Many members of the band met in training camps for Gaddhafi's Tuareg mercenaries. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.101.136.218 (talk) 22:32, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

Discography[edit]

Is there any actual reason for the discography to be in seperate entries? I see only a barely enough info in the The Radio Tisdas Sessions to warrant its own article, and it doesn't look like User:Gasolene even botherered to create a page for Amassakoul after deleting the discography info. I am highly tempted to revert the Discography section to what it was before. Dalrymple 23:46, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Trivia[edit]

I think it would be worth mentioning that their producer , Justin Adams, is a formidable player in a lot of Jah Wobble's work. It could then be linked to the Jah Wobble page which would give people interested in World Music the option to go onto Jah Wobble's page if it takes their fancy.

Red_Sismey 21:09, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Jools Holland[edit]

Anyone know the name of the track they sang on Jools Holland? 158.94.184.125 15:50, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Toning Down and Reducing[edit]

Today I am toning down and reducing the text of this article, in an attempt to alleviate concerns about neutrality and excessive detail. Much of the text added recently is less about the band and more about surrounding political developments. I am attempting to make this article more encyclopedic and more about the band. Comments or corrections are welcome. It is apparent that most of the existing history and biography info, which I reduced, is from the Tinariwen website, but the article is is need of internal citations. DOOMSDAYER520 (Talk|Contribs) 03:11, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for your efforts. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 14:25, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

External links[edit]

Earlier today I've added a link to Tinariwen concert photos from Mali that latter got removed for alleged breach of guidelines for external links. With all due respect for your reasoning and subsequent action I have to disagree with the removal. Before I started posting I have read the guidelines for external links and I believe I haven't breached them. I was not posting a collection of links, was not advertising anything nor trying to abuse Wikipedia articles for search engines rankings. I am well aware what nofollow tag means. My intention was to add and share relevant photo material I have available on musicians / music groups with others. Even having plenty more photos of Tinariwen in different albums (different concerts / festivals) I have followed the guidelines adding only a single link to just one of the folders. I was trying to comply with the guidelines while still enriching information available in articles on musicians / music groups. My intention was not shameless self promotion but adding what I find relevant additional visual materials to the community. I hope you can see and accept my additional link for what it is and that we can agree on re-enabling it again. Also I would like to apologise for marking my addition minor edit. I wasn't paying attention to already ticked checkbox and I am sorry for that. Best regards, Marko —Preceding unsigned comment added by Voknelserp (talkcontribs) 16:00, 4 August 2010 (UTC) Voknelserp (talk) 16:41, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, Marko. Please consider that, regardless of your intent, your series of edits came across as the addition of your personal website to more than 2 dozen articles, which raises a red flag with most editors. Furthermore, it is not merely a collection of photos: they are all watermarked and, evidently, up for sale. As you are affiliated with the website in question, given Wikipedia's conflict of interest guidelines I think it would be better (albeit time consuming) for you to ask on the individual talk pages of the relevant articles. Alternatively, you might consider uploading some of your photos (without watermarks) to Wikimedia Commons, from where users across different language Wikipedias could use your images within the articles, as they see fit. You could also add a link to a page of photos in Commons by adding {{Commons}} in the relevant Wikipedia article. Thanks again, -- Gyrofrog (talk) 17:59, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

Contradictions[edit]

There are contradictions in this article which confused me. It says "In the early years of the collective's history, the members were also fans of bootlegged albums by western acts that had made their way to the Tuareg people, with favorites including albums by Dire Straits, Santana, Led Zeppelin, Bob Dylan, Jimi Hendrix, Kenny Rogers and Don Williams."

Then two sentences later later:

"The Tinariwen sound is primarily guitar-driven in the style known as assouf among the Tuareg people. The style is possibly a distant relative of blues music via West African music, though the members of Tinariwen claim to have never heard actual American blues music until they began to travel internationally in 2001"

It is being is argued that the music is only West African influenced, but then contradicts this by citing clear blues/rock western influences. I for one am confused by this :) Did they, or did they not listen to bootlegged albums in the early years? If so, then arguing that there was no rock/blues influence makes little sense. Either that is untrue, or the sentence about the bootlegged albums isn't true. Disciple3d (talk) 12:20, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

Until a few months ago this article was a giant un-cited copy-and-paste from the band's website (and, I think, some Tuareg political websites too), and I and a couple of other people cut down on the cruft and added the tags calling for more citations. I also noticed the contradiction that you mention and I'm not sure where either of the two statements came from originally, but they were in the much more extensive text that we trimmed. The article still needs more verifiable sources for this stuff and hopefully someone will help out eventually. --DOOMSDAYER520 (Talk|Contribs) 13:57, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

Repeated vandalism[edit]

A user at two IP addresses (i.e. 41.99.6.146, 41.99.124.131) has introduced two pairs of edits with deliberate factual errors (i.e. first pair, second pair). They replace "Mali" with "Algeria". I have reverted both edits, and hope that this stands as a clear warning against further attempts to distort the accuracy of this article. ~ Fopam (talk) 15:53, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

Interested people should keep an eye on this due to recent events in Mali. The region from which Tinariwen hails declared independence from Mali and I would suspect Algerian influence. Watch for political propaganda and revisionist history.--DOOMSDAYER520 (Talk|Contribs) 14:57, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

Threats against guitar player in the town of Kidal[edit]

"If you speak to him, tell him that if he ever shows his face in this town again, we'll cut off all the fingers he uses to play his guitar with." http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/oct/23/mali-militants-declare-war-music 79.251.107.91 (talk) 17:50, 27 October 2012 (UTC)

Current members

Hello I recently met Intidao in Morocco where he was playing solo. He's very much an ex-member of Tinariwen, not a current one as stated here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.142.240.111 (talk) 17:43, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

External links modified[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Tinariwen. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{Sourcecheck}}).

As of February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete the "External links modified" sections if they want, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{sourcecheck}} (last update: 15 July 2018).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.


Cheers.—cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 07:59, 2 April 2016 (UTC)

External links modified[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 5 external links on Tinariwen. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

As of February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete the "External links modified" sections if they want, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{sourcecheck}} (last update: 15 July 2018).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.


Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 10:59, 11 December 2017 (UTC)

February 2019[edit]

@Doomsdayer520: Regarding this revert:

Tamashek info was sourced Here's the source[1] in question (a dictionary that gives three possible definitions of the word Tinariwen). What part of the content that you restored in the intro is supposed to be backed by this source that doesn't even mention the primary topic, i.e., the group Tinariwen?

city in infobox is confirmed in other sources in main text The city you're referring to (Tessalit) is the birthplace of the founding members, but per Template:Infobox_musical_artist#origin, the city that should be mentioned is "the place where the group was founded, or where individual performer started their career", which in this case is Tamanrasset[2]. So, unless I'm missing something here, "Tamanrasset, Algeria" should be reinstated in the Infobox. M.Bitton (talk) 23:50, 6 February 2019 (UTC)

Your reason for removing the information was that it was "original research", which is a misuse of that term. Original research (on Wikipedia) is when a scientist tries to claim that his/her own research is notable. See WP:OR. Concerning the Tamashek translation, what you should have done was add an edit tag about possibly unreliable sources rather than removing the text. Concerning Tinariwen's city of origin, I concede that there are reasons to consider both Tessalit and Tamanrasset based on the sources in the article, but you still used "original research" as the wrong reason to change it. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (Talk|Contribs) 15:05, 7 February 2019 (UTC)
Original research (on Wikipedia) is when a scientist tries to claim that his/her own research is notable. Since we don't seem to agree on something as basic as the interpretation of a policy, there really is no point in discussing the intro any further. As a way forward, I'll be taking this to WP:ORN.
Concerning Tinariwen's city of origin, I concede that there are reasons to consider both Tessalit and Tamanrasset based on the sources in the article, There is no reason whatsoever to consider "Tessalit", a city that the founder of the group "Ibrahim Ag Alhabib" left when he was 4 years old, and didn't go back to it until 26 years later (long after the group was formed).
but you still used "original research" as the wrong reason to change it. As far as I'm concerned, adjusted the infobox parameter per Template:Infobox musical artist in the edit summary is self-explanatory, and, besides, what was said in the edit summary became irrelevant the moment I started a discussion to explain the rationale behind my edit and give you the chance to do the same. M.Bitton (talk) 00:18, 9 February 2019 (UTC)
I find absolutely no reason not to discuss this here. All you had to do was wait a little while for more people to chime in, and you may have actually had some support for your stance on the hometown. But you had to waste people's time at an incident review board so take your chances there. I assume we're both acting in good faith and I do not need to win this dispute. I just don't find your reasoning to be convincing. Do you need this victory so badly? ---DOOMSDAYER520 (Talk|Contribs) 22:13, 9 February 2019 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ Jeffrey Heath (2006). Dictionnaire touareg du Mali: tamachek-anglais-français. KARTHALA Editions. p. 490. ISBN 978-2-84586-785-7.
  2. ^ Simon Broughton; Mark Ellingham; Jon Lusk (2006). The Rough Guide to World Music: Africa & Middle East. Rough Guides. p. 282. ISBN 978-1-84353-551-5. Unknown parameter |coauthors= ignored (|author= suggested) (help)