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jumble, jumbled[edit]

I'm not sure how worthy of the praise is the [version] of this article, especially since it does not deal with "vassal" but with "vassalité" but the present jumbled article is far below what should be acceptable. It seems that many articles under the "feudalism" category were written by one person who read one book and did not understand it well enough. 17:06, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

I've tagged the article. Additionally, some of the quotes made in it are out of context or not interpreted correctly. (talk) 15:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Vassal state[edit]

I think it should be merged here for obvious reasons: it provides some example of this relationship. Have mörser, will travel (talk) 03:47, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

Vassal state would be merged better with client state, keeping "vassal" restricted more to contexts of feudalism.--Wetman (talk) 17:58, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
Weak oppose. I am not an expert in this area, but my encounters with the word "vassal" are in line with what Wetman has described. Location (talk) 14:57, 4 July 2012 (UTC)
Oppose - different topics. I don't know if you realize, but the background and usage of the term vassal greatly differs between what is used in this article, and in the vassal state article. This one deals with the Medieval or European topic, while vassal state doesn't imply Western states. From this article, "vassal or feudatory is a person who has entered into a mutual obligation to a lord or monarch in the context of the feudal system in medieval Europe." Now check the vassal state article and see if it fits with the medieval vassals described here. (talk) 07:24, 31 January 2013 (UTC)
Oppose - "Vassal" should be restricted to the role and obligations of the individual person in the feudal lord-vassal relationship, whereas "vassal state" should focus on the nature and role of the subordinate or client state. In fact, this proposal has been open so long that I propose we close it and concentrate on developing the different articles for now. --Bermicourt (talk) 15:47, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

I feel like the overview paragraph should be revised so we understand who is taking what role in the 'mutual obligation'. Military support and certain privileges? Who is exchanging which for what? — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 09:37, 8 November 2015 (UTC)

Serf vs Vassal[edit]

Please sketch the differences between a serf and a vassal. The master of one might be lower (the lord of the town manor) than the master of another (a regional lord). The legal rights within evolving feudal society might be greater (one has ownership rights to land, the other not). They might be prominent in different times of history (the vassal later, as larger units of social organization emerged). Perhaps, if you have knowledge I lack, it would help to treat manorialism and working the land (agriculture) separately from the added layer of knights, feudalism and military service (politics). I can't write it, but looking at the units of social organization, economic rights and obligations, and the evolution of different players over time ("vassal" "serf" "freeman" "lord" "knight") would satisfy the call others have made for better sociology, economic history, whatever. Jerry-VA (talk) 19:24, 31 July 2016 (UTC)