Talk:Yangtze giant softshell turtle

A fact from Yangtze giant softshell turtle appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 13 December 2006. The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that one of only five extant Rafetus swinhoei soft-shelled turtles is thought by residents of Hanoi, Vietnam to be the magical Golden Turtle God named Kim Qui?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2006/December.

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"...and is one of the rarest turtles in the world."

Is that why no photograph?

Thank You.

[[ hopiakuta | [[ [[%c2%a1]] [[%c2%bf]] [[ %7e%7e%7e%7e ]] -]] 19:00, 12 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

If you can find a photo that you know has no copyright issues, feel free to add it --David Straub 00:34, 13 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I added a photo that has been found on Chinese wiki. The photo appears to be taken by a zoo-goer as the glass of the enclosure is clearly visible. --Voidvector (talk) 10:34, 1 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Relationship to Rafetus leloii

The Rafetus leloii article states that Rafetus leloii and Rafetus swinhoei are synonyms, but the Rafetus swinhoei states that they are separate species. Attys (talk) 19:32, 8 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The latter was mistaken. The cited reference considers them synonyms, and the article has been so edited. MayerG (talk) 02:52, 9 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This remains controversial. There is not enough information for either side to be correct unless DNA is done. European Magpies look similar to North American Magpies, but they're not the same species. Green Wing Teal looks more like Common Teal, but it is in fact more related to Speckled Teal. Ha Dinh Duc, who "described" Leloii still insists the two forms are not the same. Frankyboy5 (talk) 00:05, 17 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Citation of Meylan article

This referred to article by Meylan, *Meylan, P.A. Rafetus swinhoei. in Pritchard, P.C.H., and A. Rhodin eds., The conservation biology of freshwater turtles. IUCN publications, has not been published as of this date (see http://www.iucn-tftsg.org/toc-ind/ ). If and when it is published, it can be added back to article. MayerG (talk) 03:11, 9 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved. Vegaswikian (talk) 22:31, 13 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Rafetus swinhoei → Yangtze giant softshell turtle — Turtles are listed by their common names, this is the common name used by IUCN. Jack (talk) 15:50, 6 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Survey

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's policy on article titles.

Support Jack (talk) 16:07, 6 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support—makes sense, and the name indeed seems to fit with the rest of WP:TURTLE. --dragfyre_ʞןɐʇc 15:14, 7 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Weak support - The most common is Yangtze but I hesitate to use it because it's factually misleading because not all the turtles are in/from the Yangtze area. Regards, SunCreator ^(talk) 22:01, 7 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

Any additional comments:

WP:TURTLE uses common names for articles. This common name is used by the IUCN [1] Jack (talk) 16:07, 6 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Other possible names are 'Red River giant softshell turtle, Swinhoe’s softshell turtle, Spotted softshell turtle and Shanghai softshell turtle' Regards, SunCreator ^(talk) 21:36, 7 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Merge Rafetus leloii into this article

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

The result of this discussion was to leave the articles as they are for now until further clarification can be made in regards to their classification. Jack (talk) 15:22, 18 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Since the Hoan Kiem turtle (Rafetus leloii) is considered a junior synonym of Rafetus swinhoei it should be merged into this page. The scientific name already redirects here. Cheers, Jack (talk) 16:05, 6 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps the individual known turtle or the turtles in the lake deserves an article; otherwise, yes, it's accepted that it's a synonym. —innotata 18:17, 6 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I am not an expert, but I would agree that one can have the Rafetus swinhoei article talk primarily about the biological species (including the population in Vietnam), and Hoan Kiem turtle specifically about the famous turtle(s) of that species living in the famous lake, and its/their historic and legendary significance. -- Vmenkov (talk) 02:30, 7 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

So should the Hoan Kiem turtle article be reworded to say (for example) "The Hoan Kiem turtle is a Yangtze giant softshell turtle found in Hoan Kiem Lake. It is one of only x Yangtze giant softshell turtles known to exist in the world."? Jack (talk) 09:55, 8 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Something less categorical may perhaps be better. Along the lines of: "The term Hoan Kiem turtle refers to the members of a small (presently, possibly, just one or two individuals) population of giant softshell turtles found in Hanoi's Hoan Kiem Lake, and possessing special historical and cultural significance for the people of Vietnam. While it is commonly thought by zoologists that these turtles belong to the Yangtze giant softshell turtle (Rafetus swinhoei) species, some have classified them as a separate species ....", etc. Looking at other related species articles, e.g. Cantor's giant softshell turtle, one can see that the taxonomy for them often changed - and with so few specimens from Vietnam available for study, who knows what the taxonomists' eventual conclusion on them will be? -- Vmenkov (talk) 14:58, 8 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I think it's use of a synonym is unclear. There has been two studies with opposite outcomes. There is a re-assessement by M. Le and B. Farkas underway(http://www.iucn-tftsg.org/wp-content/uploads/file/Accounts/crm_5_000_checklist_v3_2010.pdf note 33). It would seem useful to only provisionally say the species are the same and leave two articles for now. Regards, SunCreator ^(talk) 22:13, 7 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I suggest retaining the Hoan Kiem turtle as an article on a notable individual/subpopulation and remove its taxobox instead. There is information on the Hoan Kiem individual/population to justify retaining it as a separate article (mostly mythological and cultural significance). Merging the two would dilute it.--Obsidi♠n^Soul 14:21, 9 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Clarification of the number of living animals

The article says that there is one known wild turtle in Xuan Kanh Lake, and two more, one large and one small, in Dong Mo Lake, however the header states that there are only two known wild individuals. Hunter12396 (talk) 05:37, 11 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

It was probably changed due to lack of sources at the time, however there are 5 to 6 known living individuals. 73.51.146.248 (talk) 15:40, 31 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Confusing Math

I'm confused at the math in this article. "Only five to six living individuals are known, one in China (captive) and three to four in Vietnam (wild)". That only adds up to 5. Later it states that a female tortoise in captivity (which I assume is the previously mentioned captive) died, that a wild tortoise in Vietnam died, then later another was found alive. That again only adds up to 5 doesn't it? The article mentions 6, where is this sixth tortoise? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:8003:8888:4E00:9D85:4D9D:73BE:A8AF (talk) 02:49, 2 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I think that was the result of information getting updated in some places but not others. I tried to update it all using a news article from January 2021, although I feel like there has to be more up-to-date information by now. Oooooooseven (talk) 00:54, 7 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Unfortunately, news articles on this turtle are scarce, with very little past mid-2022. Believe me, I have been looking, I shall edit if new articles are located. Liminalspaaces (talk) 19:36, 17 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This turtle is not known if it is a softshell, it is unconfirmed. 73.51.146.248 (talk) 15:41, 31 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]