Template:Did you know nominations/Pamela Nadell
- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by SL93 (talk) 04:32, 28 July 2019 (UTC)
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Pamela Nadell[edit]
- ... that historian Pamela Nadell has increased the visibility of sexual assaults in the 20th century American garment industry? Source: "She also turns out strong mini-profiles of several dozen prominent figures and unearths the little-discussed oppressive side of American Jewish women’s history, including sexual harassment of sweatshop workers and economic hardships that forced some Jewish women into prostitution."
- ALT1:... that American historian Pamela Nadell traced the origins of the first agitations for a female rabbi to a
lettershort story published in 1889? Source: "Far from being a recent, feminist-inspired movement, Nadell proves that women have been agitating for the right to be both trained and ordained rabbis since 1889, when Philadelphia journalist, Mary M. Cohen, raised the issue in a short story published in the Jewish Exponent. By putting the arguments in favor of women rabbis into the mouths of fictional characters, Cohen brought the debate into the homes of Philadelphia's Jews"
- ALT1:... that American historian Pamela Nadell traced the origins of the first agitations for a female rabbi to a
Created by Cawhee (talk). Self-nominated at 15:22, 9 May 2019 (UTC).
Article is new enough, long enough, neutral, and mostly referenced. Hooks are interesting and supported by supplied sources. QPQ not required for new nominator, no copyvio detected. However, the article needs more references. Multiple paragraphs in "Life and education" and "Role in public life" sections lack sources. -Zanhe (talk) 00:38, 31 May 2019 (UTC)
Nominator has been inactive since last month and never responded to Zanhe's review. RebeccaGreen has made some edits to the article, but unless she or another adopts this, or unless Cawhee returns, this nomination is marked for closure as stale. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 00:15, 7 July 2019 (UTC)
- Hi, Narutolovehinata5, thanks for your message. I have searched for and added some more sources (and some more information!). I have not been able to find more sources for (what are now) the 2nd and 3rd paras of the "Role in public life" section. I have added some to the final para, about Nadell's testimony to the House Judiciary Committee. The only sources I can find for the quote (that Jewish students "feel safe on campus" ) are primary - video of her testimony (which I've added), and the official report of the hearing (which I haven't added, but could). I may be able to find more sources if needed, though I'm doubtful about finding more about the letters she wrote - please let me know what you think. RebeccaGreen (talk) 16:35, 14 July 2019 (UTC)
- Thanks for the help RebeccaGreen. Hopefully you can still help out in sourcing the parts that still need sourcing. Unfortunately, with Cawhee not being active in over a month and being unable to return to this nomination, this may have to be closed if they do not return in a week or so. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 12:08, 15 July 2019 (UTC)
- Hi Narutolovehinata5, I'm happy to help if I can. Are you able to point to sentences or statements that particularly need citations? There are no paras now completely lacking in sources - there were two that lacked any at the time of Zanhe's review. As I said, finding more for the two letters she wrote as president of the Association of Jewish Studies has not been easy - there seem only to be primary sources, from the Association of Jewish Studies and by Nadell herself, which is not really surprising, as associations sending letters isn't very newsworthy. I thought about shortening the section about her role in public life, but that would probably have the effect of making the article too short for DYK ..... I'll help more if I can, but I'm not sure it's going to be possible if the current sourcing is inadequate. RebeccaGreen (talk) 12:26, 15 July 2019 (UTC)
- @RebeccaGreen: The DYK rules technically only require at least one reference per paragraph, so theoretically the article could already be good to go. Though considering this is a BLP, it might still be a good idea to add sources for the letters, even if they're primary. If it's okay with you, I will add you as a co-nom for the work you've done in improving the article. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 12:42, 15 July 2019 (UTC)
- @Narutolovehinata5:, thanks for your reply. The primary sources are there, in the middle of the paras - I'll add them at the end, too. It's fine by me if you want to add me as a co-nom - though I guess that will contribute to the number of DYKs I've nominated, which so far is only one, so several more to go before I need to take myself through the review process! BTW, as far as the hooks go, I prefer ALT1, as it includes a direct reference to Nadell's work in Jewish women's history, which is not apparent in the first hook, as it stands at present. Cheers, RebeccaGreen (talk) 12:54, 15 July 2019 (UTC)
- @RebeccaGreen: The DYK rules technically only require at least one reference per paragraph, so theoretically the article could already be good to go. Though considering this is a BLP, it might still be a good idea to add sources for the letters, even if they're primary. If it's okay with you, I will add you as a co-nom for the work you've done in improving the article. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 12:42, 15 July 2019 (UTC)
- Hi Narutolovehinata5, I'm happy to help if I can. Are you able to point to sentences or statements that particularly need citations? There are no paras now completely lacking in sources - there were two that lacked any at the time of Zanhe's review. As I said, finding more for the two letters she wrote as president of the Association of Jewish Studies has not been easy - there seem only to be primary sources, from the Association of Jewish Studies and by Nadell herself, which is not really surprising, as associations sending letters isn't very newsworthy. I thought about shortening the section about her role in public life, but that would probably have the effect of making the article too short for DYK ..... I'll help more if I can, but I'm not sure it's going to be possible if the current sourcing is inadequate. RebeccaGreen (talk) 12:26, 15 July 2019 (UTC)
- Thanks for the help RebeccaGreen. Hopefully you can still help out in sourcing the parts that still need sourcing. Unfortunately, with Cawhee not being active in over a month and being unable to return to this nomination, this may have to be closed if they do not return in a week or so. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 12:08, 15 July 2019 (UTC)
- Hi, Narutolovehinata5, thanks for your message. I have searched for and added some more sources (and some more information!). I have not been able to find more sources for (what are now) the 2nd and 3rd paras of the "Role in public life" section. I have added some to the final para, about Nadell's testimony to the House Judiciary Committee. The only sources I can find for the quote (that Jewish students "feel safe on campus" ) are primary - video of her testimony (which I've added), and the official report of the hearing (which I haven't added, but could). I may be able to find more sources if needed, though I'm doubtful about finding more about the letters she wrote - please let me know what you think. RebeccaGreen (talk) 16:35, 14 July 2019 (UTC)
Re-reviewed; this is good to go, prefer ALT1 as more interesting. --valereee (talk) 17:57, 24 July 2019 (UTC)
- @Valereee: Coming to promote this, it is interesting to see that you have approved ALT1 because I cannot find the hook facts in the article, and the original hook is no better in this respect. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 05:28, 27 July 2019 (UTC)
- Hm, I did check that hook, let me go look at it again! --valereee (talk) 09:34, 27 July 2019 (UTC)
- Okay, here's what I thought supported ALT1: In doing so she has publicized the names of the first women to push against the established male-only rabbinates of the United States,[8] tracing the origins of that debate to the late 19th century to an article in the Jewish Exponent, "A Problem for Purim," by the journalist Mary M. Cohen, a member of the historic Philadelphia synagogue, Congregation Mikveh Israel.[9] You're right, needs to be tweaked, this says it was a story, not a letter. And the article doesn't give the exact date like the hook does. Let me go reread those sources; I'll either tweak the article or the hook! BRB! --valereee (talk) 09:39, 27 July 2019 (UTC)
- Hm, I did check that hook, let me go look at it again! --valereee (talk) 09:34, 27 July 2019 (UTC)