User talk:IZAK/Archive 7

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IZAK (talk · contribs · central auth · count · email)

Archive 6 Archive 7 Archive 8

Images on PUI

IZAK, sorry about that. Usually I make very certain I have contacted the user, but forgot this time. As for the actually licence, I think there has been some misunderstanding about Public domain actually means. I don't know relevant Israeli law, but I don't think they have short copyright terms. Which means all those images are not Public Domain. The only people who produce Public Domain images today is the US federal gov. Now, we can claim fairuse on some of them, but others we need a source. If we cannot find a source, then they must be deleted as possible copyright infringment.

So to recap, if it is not explicitly licenced, then it is copyrighted. Burgundavia 13:45, Apr 28, 2005 (UTC)

Images on PUI

IZAK, sorry about that. Usually I make very certain I have contacted the user, but forgot this time. As for the actually licence, I think there has been some misunderstanding about Public domain actually means. I don't know relevant Israeli law, but I don't think they have short copyright terms. Which means all those images are not Public Domain. The only people who produce Public Domain images today is the US federal gov. Now, we can claim fairuse on some of them, but others we need a source. If we cannot find a source, then they must be deleted as possible copyright infringment.

So to recap, if it is not explicitly licenced, then it is copyrighted. Burgundavia 13:49, Apr 28, 2005 (UTC)

Template: Israelis

I would like your comments on anedited template I have put together at: User:Goodoldpolonius2/israel. --Goodoldpolonius2 04:01, 5 May 2005 (UTC)

  • Hi, it's too thick and wastes space (tto much spacing on the sides). The original Template:Israelis is much better (slimmer and more comprehensive), why do you want to tamper with the original? IZAK 04:57, 5 May 2005 (UTC)

LET US CONTINUE THIS DISCUSSION AT: Template talk:Israelis Thanks. IZAK 05:02, 5 May 2005 (UTC)

  • What made you think any of that interjection was remotely necessary? Tomer TALK

Recent new creations

I doubt either Zvi Block or Tiferes Yisroel has notability. Please use VFD, I will vote there if necessary. JFW | T@lk 07:48, 8 May 2005 (UTC)

contact me

Shalom! Write to me MSN: AOL: tkadmon YahooIM: fivetrees ICQ:50416037 --Fivetrees 08:21, 8 May 2005 (UTC)


Thanx again for correcting me and thanx for the future! Kabbalah astrology is weak material, but maybe better than nothing. Daat is interesting, but complicated sphirot, so I'll make revision later. --Fivetrees 07:21, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

  • No problem, thanks you for your input to the articles. IZAK 23:50, 16 May 2005 (UTC)

Various articles

Thanks for letting me know, I'll try to take a look at all of them. Meanwhile, you might be interested in Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Right to exist. Jayjg (talk) 02:26, 10 May 2005 (UTC)

R' Soloveitchik and beezuy talmidei chachomim

Joseph Soloveitchik (1903 -1993) Rosh HaYeshiva (Dean) RIETS, Yeshiva University, also a famous apikorus who somehow made his way into Jewish history. He ruined the famous Soloveitchik's reputation as marbitzei Torah.

I see that you subscribe to the conventional wisdom/rumor (spread mostly by the left and absorbed by many on the right) regarding the substance of R' Soloveitchik. This is further reflected in your article Joseph Soloveitchik, where you link R' Soloveitchik with (for example) Torah Umadda, Zionism, and Kantian philosophy, connections that are oversimplified at best. Instead of writing vague generalities about revisionalism (as I saw on the talk page of the Soloveitchik article), I'll quote from Rav Moshe Feinstein. He writes in a letter to R' Soloveitchik (regarding banning rabbinical attendance at ecumenical conventions, found in Igros Moshe Yoreh Dea'ah, chelek 3, siman 43):

"My dear one and my friend, the Gaon, the well-known Gadol, marbitz Torah barabim (purveyor of Torah to the public), Moreinu (our teacher) HaRav Yosef Dov Soloveitchik, shlit"a."

This sounds cliché, but "the Rav" is/was misunderstood.

If you respond, I'll be willing to continue the discussion and provide much more information. HKT 03:36, 10 May 2005 (UTC)

  • Hello HKT: I must very STRONGLY PROTEST your unfounded accusations because I did not God-forbid write the disgusting words: "also a famous apikorus who somehow made his way into Jewish history. He ruined the famous Soloveitchik's reputation as marbitzei Torah" and I would never write such a thing about Rabbi Soloveitchik, ever! So please apologize ASAP! Furtheremore you are free to analyze all my contributions on the "history" for the article, see [1] and you can judge for yourself what I do say. I cannot be held responsible for what other editors have added or contributed because this is Wikipedia and I am involved with thousands of other articles. Each of us must choose those pages they desire to moniter most and then respond with edits and discussions when they know that their subject is being misrepresented. If you cannot function in this environment and if you are going to run around Wikipedia hurling unfounded accusations at people then I would apply to you the saying "if you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen". Also, it is important for you to understand that Wikipedia is NOT a "yeshiva" but it is in many ways an open ENCYCLOPEDIA that any idiot who can write a few words can edit, so mistakes and vandalism can and do happen. Be well and stay in touch! IZAK 08:03, 10 May 2005 (UTC)
  • You may also want to contribute to the article yourself and insert what you know to be the truth about Rabbi Soloveitchik. IZAK 08:10, 10 May 2005 (UTC)
I'm sorry. I inappropriately assumed that you would've caught vandalism on your user page, though you're clearly otherwise occupied. You're right, of course, that I should have checked the history page. I do think that the article demonstates too much of a left-wing-tilted image of R' Soloveitchik, and maybe I'll get around to addressing some of that on the talk page of the article.

By the way, I appreciate the welcome message on my user:talk page. Thank you, and again I apologize. Kol Tuv. HKT 18:20, 10 May 2005 (UTC) By the way, I reread your response and I just wanted to clarify: the "famous apikores" line is not in the article but on your user page. Just so you're aware where the vandals are striking. See also other comments on the Famous Rabbis section. HKT 18:24, 10 May 2005 (UTC)

Cleaned up the vandalism. HKT 21:05, 10 May 2005 (UTC)

Oh, by the way: I can't just post anything that I know to be true. I would need to back that info up with recorded, public secondary sources. I'm sure I could scrounge up some such quotes, but it would probably be highly time consuming. We'll see. HKT 21:11, 10 May 2005 (UTC)

  • Dear HKT: I would like to thank you for alerting me to the vandalism of my own User page by an anonymous vandal who seems to be on his own personal version of a "jihad" against anyone who does not agree with his view of Torah life. Pardon me if my initial reponse was overly harsh towards you, I had no idea that an idiot had attacked and changed my words. As I said, this is Wikipedia after all... IZAK 04:55, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

Miscount on Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Right to exist

Hi IZAK. I apologize for mischaracterizing you somehow when I summarized the deletion votes. I shouldn't be doing it when I haven't slept. Thanks for the correction. moink 15:55, 10 May 2005 (UTC)

  • No problem, and thanks for getting back to me. IZAK 23:49, 16 May 2005 (UTC)

Sephirah (Kabbalah)

See my edits to Sephirah (Kabbalah) and let me know what you think.--Eliezer 12:43, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for the confidence re: me writing Kabbalistic articles Fintor 13:37, 11 May 2005 (UTC) talk

I'll look in on these articles, but not only do I have a lot of stuff I should be doing for school, Qabala is pretty low on my list of interests, so most of what I do there will probably consist of watching for typos and grammatos for now. Meantime, I'd like to flesh out my little project at User:TShilo12/Peirush as well as work more on straightening out the whole template thing we were discussing last week when I get a chance to work on it again (week after next probably) Tomer TALK 19:37, May 12, 2005 (UTC)

  • Hey IZAK, User:El_C pointed out something on my talk have Netzach as "Victory", but it means "Eternity" (as in netzach netzachim). Is there some sod I've missed out on? I'm only 33, so I haven't looked too much at qabala... Tomer TALK 02:52, May 16, 2005 (UTC)
    • Tomer, no sod just use your kop, it means both those words. Eternity=Victory, get it? IZAK 04:51, 16 May 2005 (UTC)
      • Just curious... :-p I learned victory=nitzachon, but I suppose it's possible the two words are etymologically related. Tomer TALK 05:06, May 16, 2005 (UTC)
      • Nitzachon is used in modern Hebrew, yes. We are not talking about a short-term military-type victory at all. We are talking about the quality of "nitzchiut" when H-shem will be "victorious" in the world when it reaches a level of "Eternity" (i.e. the material world will no longer be a hindrance to His [only spiritual] Will...bayom hahu yiheye H-shem Echad ushmo echad...) In older uses you find for example the Maharal of Prague named one of his works Netzach Yisrael, meaning both its "victory" over Egypt on Pesach and then becoming an "eternal" nation on Shavuot seven weeks later when it witnesses matan Torah --- and as a paradox to understanding why Tisha Be'av is not the end but the beginning in a way, so we shouldnt allow modern-limited perspectives to cloud a language that has roamed widely and deeply and includes a variety of similar usages subject to a variety and variant language and grammatical rules and customs. And most importantly, this is an area of complex abstractions and metaphors and if one is going to be ever the narrow literalist, then forget about ever grasping some small ideas about Kabbalah, which are all one huge abstraction about an invisible inscrutable incomprehesible God that is at the center of it all. Be patient, and don't jump, literally or figuratively! IZAK 05:23, 16 May 2005 (UTC)

New article

Hey. I just created fast of the firstborn. Please check it out; it probably needs some work. I think it might be too technical, and it's also imbalanced. Thanks.HKT 21:07, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

P.S. Take a look at Phinehas (or Pinchas). The etymology seems fishy. (Also, I don't think that he was so young when he killed Zimri and Kazbi, but I'll have to double-check). HKT 21:13, 11 May 2005 (UTC) Sorry, I wrote Phineas before; these crazy spelling variations are out of control. (By the way, Phineas could use a disambiguation page).HKT 00:09, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

Rabbi Yochanan

I've added a bit to the article you created on Rabbi Yochanan. I thought you might be interested in checking it out and adding/changing/deleting/commenting.msh210 03:18, 12 May 2005 (UTC)


I took a look at Abif and left some harsh comments. Take a look. HKT 19:21, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

  • Thanks for the notice...I actually found the article a few days ago and was flabergast that such ignorance could possibly exist. I would think the article should be a {speedy-delete} candidate, given that it's entirely comprised of incoherent mumbo-jumbo, but then again, I'm a lot quicker to discern these things, apparently, than the wikigods. If this rubbish has to go through the formality of a VfD, I'm more than happy to cast my vote in favor of deletion. If the VfD fails, I'll lose all faith in the Wikipedia. This article is a poster-child for why there should be a wikicabal. You and I, of course, should head it. :-D (shavua tov, btw) Tomer TALK 06:42, May 15, 2005 (UTC)
    • Tomer, thank you for your kind words, but at the moment (for me) the "shlep" of being a hard working editor here leaves me no time to get involved in "cabals" of any sort. And please do not be impatient with Wikipedia, it works for those who can follow the process, but not for those who want to "re-invent the Wiki-wheel" in a hurry. And finally, personally I do not like "speedy deletions" (only to be used in the most extreme of "emergencies"), because not only must justice be done, it must also be SEEN to be done (I can't remember where that quote comes from, but it's always true.., even in the courts of Wikipedia's cyber-tribunals). Best wishes and shavua tov! IZAK 07:10, 15 May 2005 (UTC)

Template:Jewish language

You may be interested in the discussion at Template_talk:Jewish_language#Attention-stealing_template. Tomer TALK 17:35, May 15, 2005 (UTC)


If Image:Hunter (Purim)-thumb.jpg is your property, could you indicate the copyright status on the image page? Please don't deprive Wikipedia of the image of this unusual tzaddik. JFW | T@lk 18:19, 15 May 2005 (UTC)

  • Done, I hope GFDL is good enough. IZAK 23:46, 16 May 2005 (UTC)

Ditto Image:Sharett_stamp.jpg -- although I cannot vouch for his tzaddikness status. Yaron 19:10, May 15, 2005 (UTC)

  • Done, it is a Stamp image. IZAK 23:46, 16 May 2005 (UTC)

Need your opinion Nazi vs, German occupation

IZAK - let us know what you think, i.e., vote at Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/German military occupation of Norway during World War II --Leifern 23:00, May 16, 2005 (UTC)

  • Done, thanks for the alert, I also tidied up some things on the Quisling disambiguation page. IZAK 23:48, 16 May 2005 (UTC)

A tale of two articles

See Chokmah (Kabbalah) and Chokhmah (Kabbalah). At a glance (nimretzes), it seems the former is the keeper. Probably requires no merge. Thanks. HKT 21:44, 17 May 2005 (UTC)

  • Hi HKT, yes your assessment is correct. I combined the two, and of course the the first one is better but I redirected it to the second one's title because usually the "k" is written as "kh" (at least for middle letters at any rate) as in Halakha and Shulkhan Arukh. Thanks for the heads up. Best wishes. IZAK 08:46, 18 May 2005 (UTC)

Deir Yassin cleanup

Mah Shlomha ahi! The Dier Yassin article needs clean up and imput from Jewish sources. I think that we can provide that imput. Would you like to help me clean up the article? Guy Montag 04:55, 18 May 2005 (UTC)

  • Shalom Guy, I would love to help, but I am working on dozens of other articles right now. I suggest you start slowly and see how it goes. Please keep me informed. Thanks and Kol Tuv! IZAK 08:49, 18 May 2005 (UTC)

Yehudei sheqolenique

Yehudei sheqolenique, ever heard of them? Can you look at and verify the article at all? Thanks IZAK 10:24, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

  • No, and I have no way to evaluate this without sources. -- Jmabel | Talk 16:39, May 19, 2005 (UTC)

Please use VFD if you think something is nonsense. It usually is. This one was written quite well, but a simple google test revealed that all mentions were Wikipedia mirrors. Whoever pulled this vitz probably had a good laugh. JFW | T@lk 19:14, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

  • JFW I agree! IZAK 07:16, 20 May 2005 (UTC)

Last piece of Image copyright

Thanks for all work tagging those images. I have left several GFDL ones, as I still need a source for them. In order for them to be GFDL, you either have to have taken them, or have a release form from the photographer stating that they release it under the GFDL. Cheers. Burgundavia (✈ take a flight?) 04:12, May 22, 2005 (UTC)

  • Hi Burgundavia, thanks for the info. The original photographer, a friend of mine, passed away over twenty years ago. So there is no way I can get a "release form". I will therefore have to provide a more appropriate tag for those photos. Thanks again. IZAK 06:54, 22 May 2005 (UTC)
    • Cheers. That was a huge project. Burgundavia (✈ take a flight?) 08:50, May 22, 2005 (UTC)
      • Hi Burgundavia: No kidding! It took me about three nights to wade through all of that, but it was worth it. IZAK 08:53, 22 May 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for the welcome etc

Thanks for your note and the tips. Your edits on Mishpat Ivri helped me reframe the intro, and I hope it doesn't look like I merely reverted. Now, if I want to respond to or explain edits, do I do that thru your Talk or in the articles Discussion page? Also impressed by the Judaism categorization etc. Can you add Jewish ethics and related topics too? Take care, HG 09:31, 22 May 2005 (UTC)

  • Hi HG, almost always respond to edits on the article's Talk page (to keep it relevant), and (if you want to be more certain) to make sure you are being noticed contact the other conributor/s to get their attention and respond. But keep it centrailzed on the article's talk page so that others can "join the fray" etc. As for adding "Jewish ethics" as unique category, I don't know that we have enough articles to justify it. What would you add? Remember that categories need to be as specfic as possible, so I am worried when you say "related topics", as we can't start throwing in Torah and Maimonides and Mussar movement and say Conservative Judaism just because there are sections in them that may overlap with "Jewish ethics", rather spend some time looking over things and getting acquainted for a while with the "Wikipedi culture" as they call it. Best wishes IZAK 09:51, 22 May 2005 (UTC)
  • Oh, and by the way, why don't insert your Email on your private settings (no-one will know what it is) and then you can receive private Emails when someone goes on your personal User page and clicks on "E-mail this user". Could you do that on my page and send me your Email address please. Thanks. IZAK 09:51, 22 May 2005 (UTC)

IDF commanders

Hi. I translated Chaim Laskov from the Hebrew wikipedia. It is pretty thorough. Danny 12:27, 22 May 2005 (UTC)

  • Thank you Danny! IZAK 02:52, 23 May 2005 (UTC)

Hi IZAK, I looked at these IDF Chiefs of Staff, but I am afraid you miscounted. Half of the six were done! ;-) Cheers, gidonb 16:33, 22 May 2005 (UTC)

  • No Gidon, I did not "miscount" at all, because when I contacted you and others, the six were not done for a quite a long time, and only now after I pointed it out to a few editors, have they have added new articles over the last 24 hours, as you can see from Danny's comment/s above. Either way, whatever is not done still needs to be done, whatever is left to do by now. Best wishes. IZAK 02:52, 23 May 2005 (UTC)
    • IZAK, you missed the wink after my statement! :-) They now are all done. Mathknight and I did two, Danny and Leifern did one. I assume that Danny will take another look at the Dado article tomorrow (it's a stub). Don't be so serious. Zei gezunt! gidonb 03:02, 23 May 2005 (UTC)
      • Sorry Gidon old chap, I havn't looked at the articles yet to know what's up, so I just replied based what was flying 24 hours ago. Well, at least the job got moving, which was my only intention, so the "count" was not important to me (it was just a way of getting people's attention, which worked!). I am not half as brilliant as I seem ;-) All the best IZAK 03:08, 23 May 2005 (UTC)
        • Considering the fact that you had so many people working for you yesterday, I would conclude that sometimes you don't seem half as brilliant as you are! ;-) gidonb 17:51, 23 May 2005 (UTC)
          • Whatever. IZAK 08:55, 24 May 2005 (UTC)

Hi, IZAK. I started filling in the Dado article and will do more when I get home from work. For some strange reason, I got logged off while I was editing, so the edit is anonymous. The article really brings back memories, and I can see the potential for a lot of interesting articles stemming from it. Danny 11:40, 23 May 2005 (UTC)

Hi, just wanted to let you know that I finished translating Dado. I will probably work on Gorodish next. By the way, I am curious to hear your response to what I did to the article Amoz. Danny

  • Thank you Danny, I will. IZAK 08:55, 24 May 2005 (UTC)

Thanks, IZAK. On an unrelated Israel topic, I also did Hanna Rovina and Tel Afek last night. I am also curious to hear your comments on Amoz. Danny 19:57, 24 May 2005 (UTC)

    • Danny, I looked at the articles, but I cannot comment on any specific details without looking at the specific meforshim myself, so therefore, for now things stay as they are in the article. IZAK 18:19, 25 May 2005 (UTC)


Hi IZAK (and everyone else here :), Do you think it's time to create Wikipedia:Wikiportal/Israel similar to Wikipedia:Wikiportal/India, Wikipedia:Wikiportal/New Zealand and other Category:Wikiportals? I'm writing this here because it was you who made those wonderful templates and we don't have a portal yet where we could communicate. What do you think? Humus sapiensTalk 05:26, 23 May 2005 (UTC)

  • Hi Humus, it's only me here, but I will pass your message on to "everyone". Yes, your suggestion is excellent, it is certainly time for what you describe, but I have no experience with Wikipedia portals, and if you know how, go ahead and start an Israel portal and I am sure editors of Israel-related articles will support you and join in the effort/s. Behatzlachah. IZAK 05:33, 23 May 2005 (UTC)

Heya. I'll look into the Wikipedia:Wikiportal/Israel project, but no, to answer your question, it's completely different from what I was envisioning. Portals are for "personalizing" the look and feel of the website so that you can have things where you want them. They can also be used to "promote" (in an interest sense, not an economic sense) certain information. Theoretically there could be a Wikipedia:Wikiportal/Judaism, but the only people I would foresee wanting to use it are Charedim. Tomer TALK 13:56, May 23, 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for your note(s). The portal looks terrific but I would rather just have a slightly customized version of the Main or Community pages. E.g., with the log in boxes integrated in the portal, my favorite links, Israel news, etc. Like a customized page. Sorry to sound so pedestrian. HG 07:17, 24 May 2005 (UTC)

Hi IZAK & Co, consider youself invited to WP:WNBI, spread the word. Good idea by HG above, but I've no idea how to do it in this framework. Humus sapiensTalk 09:33, 29 May 2005 (UTC)

Alternative claims of Jew, Judaism and Israelite and Alternative Judaism

User:Sirkumsize is suggesting these articles should be merged with Jewish denominations; I thought you might want to comment. Jayjg (talk) 21:04, 23 May 2005 (UTC)

  • Dear Jay, thank you for bringing these articles to my attention. I have done some NPOV work on the first article, now for the second... IZAK 08:55, 24 May 2005 (UTC)

New Article

On IDF Major-General Meir Zorea. Take a look. Kol Tuv. HKT 23:51, 24 May 2005 (UTC)

  • Hi HKT: Nice job, I have just proof-read it and added some wiki links. Be well. IZAK 21:11, 25 May 2005 (UTC)

History of Kibbutz Movement

IZAK, I do not believe that a separate article on the history of the kibbutz movement is needed. The Kibbutz article has already been made a FA, so the consensus is that the article is very good. The Kibbutz article is mostly historical, so if you cut out the history sections there would be nothing left. I'm sure that the article on the history of the Jews of Russia and Poland could expanded though. Dinopup 17:17, 25 May 2005 (UTC)

  • Dino, I respectfully disagree, because at 66k, the article exceeded Wikipedia standards for articles by being double in size. Many long articles relating to Israel eventually are divided up this way. It happened to the Israel article, see all its spin-offs, to the Israel Defense Forces article, see all its spin-offs, to Hebrew languages, and at a few other places such as the Jew article, and the list goes on... So I do NOT see your point either on technical or stylistic grounds. IZAK 17:45, 25 May 2005 (UTC)

Biblical Patriarch Dynasties

From what I can tell it is pure Zestauferov original research that should be placed on VfD. Jayjg (talk) 20:29, 25 May 2005 (UTC)

  • Tee-hee, be my guest... IZAK 20:54, 25 May 2005 (UTC)
Is this a joke?! The article should be deleted and any worthwhile information should be integrated into wiki Genesis (or elsewhere). HKT 21:19, 25 May 2005 (UTC)
Joke? No! We used to have a contributor called "Zestauferov" and he used to invent this kind of stuff all the time. In my constant efforts to categorize Jewish-related articles I uncover some long hidden "gems" from time to time, and this is one of them...but you never know, Zest may return one day and flood us with his "contributions" yet again... hang in there, Shabbes is coming... IZAK 22:03, 25 May 2005 (UTC)
Indeed. :-/ HKT
In fairness to Zestauferov, I noticed that he admitted that the article was inappropriate, but he couldn't find anywhere else to put the information. In related news, look at Jehoshua Movement (a poor, nearly incoherent stub, apparently referring to (or attempting to refer to) Paul's involvement in Early Christianity (according to Rav Ya'akov Emden)). Your thoughts? HKT 00:35, 26 May 2005 (UTC)
My thoughts? Here goes: "It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World"...I think that sums up how I feel at this moment in time... IZAK 01:03, 26 May 2005 (UTC)

Speaking of mad, looks like I'm dealing with some revisionist Poles on Talk:Abraham ben Abraham. Have fun. HKT 01:49, 26 May 2005 (UTC)

I added some points. Thanks for bringing this to my attention. IZAK 02:35, 26 May 2005 (UTC)


I just sent you an e-mail about that new category. Please respond soon. HKT 03:50, 26 May 2005 (UTC)

  • Hi HKT: I have replied, check your Email. Thanks. IZAK 01:00, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

Hebrew Bible Category

Ok, you've asked for it! Please give me feedback on my long posting on the discussion page of the Category. Kol tuv, HG 05:21, 26 May 2005 (UTC) PS My posting didn't end up with a heading, I think. Can you add one for me?

  • Hi HG: I think you misunderstood my intent. The issue is not what "to do" with the category (Category:Hebrew Bible verses) because categories are not there for anything to be be "done" with or in them. Rather, my intent was to bring your attention to the two articles in that category already and what to do with the articles about specfic verses, which so far only includes Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2. So I have gone ahead and posted your lengthy suggestions at Talk:Genesis 1:1 which is where it should have been put in the first place. Thanks for taking the time to think about this and responding. IZAK 00:59, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

Bible Verses

Hi IZAK. Firstly, apologies for not responding to your announcements about votes some months ago but I haven't been editing for almost a year and specifically did not want to get involved in the heated arguments, revert wars etc that have been springing up. I know often you're correct in your take on these but knowing me (now that I've decided to start editing a bit again) if I see many more of these, I know I'll stop editing again out of sheer annoyance at the largely pointless nature of these debates. So don't take it the wrong way if I don't participate in these activities - I want to get back to contributing but in my style looking for content over argument.

In terms of the Bible verses articles (a perfect eg of a content issue!), my opinion (to get some list of opinions started) is that they are a waste of time/space on Wikipedia. Something like this belongs more on Wikisource, as it is in essence the presentation of an extended primary text with detailed information about every part (assuming people add more verses...) - I saw a large article which did not contain much information that can't be found in other Wikipedia articles - and yet it covered so little of what could be said about the verse. If this keeps going, it will engulf Wikipedia. On Wikisource though, something in the style of the Mishna project (with user contributed public domain translations) and concise summaries of commentaries, the uses of the verse in Jewish texts etc would be a good idea and I'd probably like to contribute to those. As it stands, I think deletion or relocation to Wikisource is the way to go. Frikle 11:47, 26 May 2005 (UTC)

  • Hi Frikle, thanks for your serious reply. I hope you don't mind, but because of the vote at Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Genesis 1:1 taking place right now, I am going to post your last paragraph in its entirety over there since you present a serious counter-option. Thanks again! IZAK 01:18, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

Walentyn Potocki

Please check the talk page of his article. So far we have sources (the Jewish Encyclopedia from 1970, the Moskal article from 2001 and Tabzir article from 2003), which claim there is no evidence for this tale. While I personally don't know the Jewish Encyclopedia, it looks like a rather NPOV source for Jewish matters (perhaps you have a newer edition yourself?), and the Tabzir article has appeared in a peer-reviewed, academic journal, and he clearly states it is fiction. As I wrote in Talk, I'd love to see a paragraph on Jewish oral tradition added to the article, however, it is - so far - evident, that the belief his story is true is based upon oral tradition only and there is no evidence besides it proving this story. Of course, you are more then welcome to counter this with academic publications proving otherwise - I have not been able to find any in Polish in English, but perhaps you can find some in Hebrew? See also The Bible and history and articles on Jesus, Moses and other religious semi-mythical figures, which do show both sides - this is supposed to be a NPOV encyclopedia, after all. PS. If you do reply, plz copy your reply to my talk page, I am not likely to check your talk page again until I have sth to say again :) --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 09:20, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

Tnx for the reply. I gave the Jesus/Moses example to show that it is possible to rach NPOV on religious issues. They are always tricky, because sometimes belief is not easily NPOVed. As for Potocki case, I don't think it has anything to do with the Holocaust Denial. As for Catholic Church in Poland - in Zwoje article, Moskal discusses the possibility the story might have been erased by the Church and/or Potocki family themself, but he concludes it is unlikely. One has to remember PLC was a very free country, and it would be next to impossible to hush such a story - burning of a noble. If he was killed in a duel, or imprisoned for many years, then it could have been silenced - because it wouldn't be interseting - but that of course would disprove the very story. And you have to remember that although Catholic Church was dominant in Poland, it had no absolute power. The PLC extensive religious tolerance meant there were many Protstant and Orthodox, with their own printing presses - somehow I thnk they would love to popularise the story of Inquisiting buring a noble if it did happen. Finally, there is the issue of countries beyond PLC - they often made propaganda use of any PLC internal troubles, inlcuding any religious trouble, to popularise the image of 'anarchy state'. Again, it is strange there would be no sources trumpeting the barbarian Poles burning a member of powerful family... Now, of course, neither of this proves decisivly that the story was false, but there is not a single evidence it is true, neither. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 16:21, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

Category:Hebrew Bible verses

OK, I'll try to look. --Fivetrees 10:46, 28 May 2005 (UTC)

FYI -- I revised Genesis 1:1 in line with my view to keep it. Thought you should know, I'd like to hear your thoughts about the changes. HG 17:09, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

IZAK -- Have been away for awhile and see that you've made terrific changes with Gen 1.1. Good for you! I had felt frustrated w/the process, as you might imagine. Also, I started a blog :) Take care, HG 07:31, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Joseph's Tomb

Take a look at this stub. For a Jewish religous site, it has very little coverage. I would like to see some better source and material there and I think you would be perfect for the task. Mwssage me if you are interested.

Guy Montag 07:05, 29 May 2005 (UTC)

Banu Qurayza

I'd be interested in your thoughts, and if you have time, your help in editing. --Briangotts 02:34, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

  • Dear Brian: Very fascinating article, I did some minor edits, and too bad that it's being "totally disputed" but obviously pro-Arabian Muslim writers will not like it (they only like articles that say nice things about them...oh well...) I will let some other editors know. Thanks for keeping me informed and keep up the godd work. IZAK 03:20, 31 May 2005 (UTC)
    • Hi, I appreciate the opportunity to help, but I'm afraid Banu Qurayza is too far outside my area of expertise for me to be of much use. -- BD2412 talk 02:03, 2005 Jun 1 (UTC)


IZAK, this is fairly urgent. I tried to post the following message on User:jayjg's talk page: (talk · contribs) should be blocked quickly. He's on a vandalism spree. -Anonymous 21:38, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

However, the vandal somehow hacked Wikipedia and the edit history holds me responsible for his latest hack of jayjg's talk page. Moreover, my message was somehow never posted. The vandal has repeatedly aired his hostile intentions. Two users warned him on his talk page, but he is unresponsive. Please do what you can. 21:48, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

The history seems to have been sorted out, but I'm still noticing anomalies in (talk · contribs)'s wake. 21:53, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

From Danny

Hi. You may wanna check out some of my work today. Moshe and Joseph Kimhi are new, and I expanded the RaDaK article David Kimhi. I also did Shlomo Ben Yoseph and a bunch of kibbutzim and moshavim. Most of it was translation work from Hebrew, though a few of the places are original. Danny 23:15, 30 May 2005 (UTC)

Hi IZAK, I sent you an email. Also, can you take a look at the Encyclopedia Britannica list collaboration of the week Wikipedia:2004 Encyclopedia topics/24. There are some Jewish topics there that need attention, i.e., Sidra. Last week we missed on Musaf, and there are plenty of other topics you might be interested in--the last list, p. 28, has Yizkor. Danny 01:39, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

  • Hello Danny: Yes I did receive your Email and I replied (via Email), I also forwarded your ideas about the Wikisource project to a few others who hopefully will be in touch with you. Thank you for bringing the above articles to my attention, I just don't know if I can get to all of them in time. Best wishes, IZAK 01:51, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Hanoar Hatzioni

Hello Izak. The Hanoar Hatzioni article was deleted for Copyvio. It is true that most of the info came from the Hanoar Hatzoni web site, although I tried editing what I could. I think wikipedia deserves an article on Hanoar Hatzioni. What can be done here?--AAAAA 02:02, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

  • AAAAA: Sorry to hear that has happened. the only way to deal with is to research your topic again and re-write it without taking large verbatim quotes. Small/short quotes should be acknowledged, like so [2] and or longer/larger quotes may be used and cited, in the following fashion:

So please do not be intimidated. Take the effort to completely rewrite the article and see if you can use a few other sources and cite them as well. Hope this helps, and keep up your good work! IZAK 02:28, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

  • Hello again, Izak. I just made a small entry here: Hanoar Hatzioni/Temp. Could you help or tell anybody you know that knows about this to add to it?--AAAAA 12:01, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for tip

Hi Izak. I put in an email address so you (and others) can write. I can guess the topic. :) I hesitated to put in the email because of lack of confidence in confidentiality, so to speak. Take care, good luck w/everything, kol tuv, HG 02:54, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC) PS sorry for taking up a new section on your Talk page. Should I have added it to a previous one?

  • HG: You are doing great! Of course you must add new sections to anyone's talk page if it's a totally new message that you want to start, so again, you are doing great!. IZAK 02:58, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I've petitioned for arbitration against Yuber


I hope you join in the commentary against him.

Guy Montag 07:37, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Proposal to merge Occupations of Palestine

There is currently a proposal to merge Occupations of Palestine with History of Palestine. Since you have done extensive work on this article, I thought you might want to comment. You'll find the discussion at Talk:Occupations of Palestine. Jayjg (talk) 19:27, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Concerning User:Rabbis and User:Cantors

Where did he make the threat to go to the ADL? As fas as I am concerned, these joke cantors should have been deleted long ago. In fact, I deleted them a couple of times already. Danny 00:46, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Check the block log. One year for making legal threats. Danny 01:36, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Next time one of them shows up I will make their lives miserable. Danny 02:12, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)

lots of edits, not an admin

Hi - I made a list of users who've been around long enough to have made lots of edits but aren't admins. If you're at all interested in becoming an admin, can you please add an '*' immediately before your name in this list? I've suggested folks nominating someone might want to puruse this list, although there is certainly no guarantee anyone will ever look at it. Thanks. -- Rick Block (talk) 18:44, Jun 16, 2005 (UTC)

  • Dear Rick, thank you for thinking of me. I do not wish to be an admin at this time. Thanks again and be well! IZAK 03:18, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)


Isn't it sufficient to leave the description of "dunam" to dunam rather than putting its equivalence into every article that uses the term? I'm not making an accusation, just an observation about your most recent edit to Jaffa, Israel. Tomer TALK 11:01, Jun 17, 2005 (UTC)

  • I was just trying to be helpful to any readers who don't know what a "dooonim" is and are too lazy to look it up. It's not that important really. IZAK 11:16, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Kerry a Loew?!

I noticed your recent Maharal edit. Some background: Moravian historian Jaroslav Bransky claimed that there is strong evidence to indicate that Kerry is descended from the Maharal's older brother, Sinai. However, Tomas Kraus, head of the Czech Federation of Jewish Communities, after looking into Bransky's claim, dismissed it as "not much more than speculation." Bransky himself admitted that his research had holes. (However, I don't see why a scholar of Judaism would be required to confirm such a claim). Anyway, even if Kerry was somehow related to the Maharal, I (for one) wouldn't consider it worthy of mention in the Maharal article. HKT 18:42, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)


Just for some context on (talk · contribs)'s recent "edits" to Judaism: He/she has left a number of unsourced anti-Zionist/anti-Semetic edits in his/her wake, and he/she recently vandalized User talk:PedanticallySpeaking with obscenities. No need to cater to this vandal's whims. In fact, the vandal has already been warned (in a sense) on his/her talk page, and should be blocked if he/she vandalizes again. Check out the vandal's contribs (Zionist terrorism, etc.). HKT 23:22, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)

  • Thanks for the info, and he is also a nut. Have a good Shabbes. IZAK 23:39, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Category:Causes célèbres

I notice you added Menahem Mendel Beilis to this category. It's been voted for deletion but I am trying to save it. Please come to Votes for undeletion to express your view. David | Talk 17:31, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)

  • Hi David, seems you have contacted me too late, as the vote has just been closed off (see Wikipedia:Categories for deletion/Log/2005 June 11) even though there had once been a similar vote and the consensus was to keep, so go figure. Best wishes. IZAK 03:20, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)
    • I only noticed the deletion debate a few hours before the deadline. However things are not all gone - I have proposed it on WP:VFU where it is doing significantly better. David | Talk 16:29, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)


I've placed the Radhanite article up for peer review [5]. Your comments and criticism would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! --Briangotts 19:41, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)