User talk:Koavf/Archive003

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001 81 topics (2005-03-05 – 2006-03-07) 63kb
002 56 topics (2006-03-07 – 2006-08-08) 44kb
003 47 topics (2006-08-08 – 2006-09-14) 48kb
004 60 topics (2006-09-14 – 2007-06-05) 73kb
005 48 topics (2007-06-05 – 2007-08-21) 80kb
006 35 topics (2007-08-21 – 2007-11-30) 73kb
007 42 topics (2007-11-30 – 2008-02-19) 44kb
008 34 topics (2008-02-19 – 2008-03-26) 46kb
009 38 topics (2008-03-26 – 2008-04-19) 38kb
010 39 topics (2008-04-19 – 2008-05-31) 60kb
011 88 topics (2008-05-31 – 2008-08-04) 88kb
012 40 topics (2008-08-04 – 2008-09-11) 61kb
013 46 topics (2008-09-11 – 2009-04-13) 47kb
014 60 topics (2009-04-13 – 2009-09-29) 50kb
015 37 topics (2009-09-29 – 2009-11-21) 46kb
016 22 topics (2009-11-21 – 2010-01-04) 22kb
017 49 topics (2010-01-04 – 2010-02-18) 54kb
018 63 topics (2010-02-18 – 2010-03-23) 63kb
019 44 topics (2010-03-23 – 2010-05-02) 48kb
020 46 topics (2010-05-02 – 2010-06-28) 56kb
021 46 topics (2010-06-28 – 2010-09-01) 71kb
022 54 topics (2010-09-01 – 2010-10-14) 43kb
023 49 topics (2010-10-14 – 2010-11-26) 43kb
024 54 topics (2010-11-26 – 2011-01-22) 37kb
025 61 topics (2011-01-22 – 2011-06-08) 37kb
026 43 topics (2011-06-08 – 2011-07-12) 39kb
027 44 topics (2011-07-12 – 2011-08-15) 48kb
028 44 topics (2011-08-15 – 2011-10-08) 42kb
030 73 topics (2011-11-25 – 2012-02-17) 62kb
031 47 topics (2012-02-17 – 2012-03-14) 74kb
032 40 topics (2012-03-14 – 2012-04-15) 39kb
033 41 topics (2012-04-15 – 2012-05-01) 43kb
034 42 topics (2012-05-01 – 2012-05-30) 38kb
035 58 topics (2012-05-30 – 2012-07-27) 73kb
036 44 topics (2012-07-27 – 2012-09-03) 87kb
037 41 topics (2012-09-03 – 2012-10-26) 61kb
038 47 topics (2012-10-26 – 2012-12-01) 111kb
039 56 topics (2012-12-01 – 2013-02-05) 78kb
040 63 topics (2013-02-05 – 2013-05-14) 69kb
041 71 topics (2013-05-14 – 2013-09-04) 135kb
042 81 topics (2013-09-04 – 2014-01-09) 109kb
043 53 topics (2014-01-09 – 2014-05-15) 69kb
044 62 topics (2014-05-15 – 2014-09-17) 92kb
045 123 topics (2014-09-17 – 2015-05-16) 156kb
046 66 topics (2014-05-16 – 2015-11-11) 73kb
047 91 topics (2015-11-11 – 2016-09-30) 113kb
048 43 topics (2016-09-30 – 2017-01-09) 74kb
049 67 topics (2017-01-09 – 2017-07-21) 96kb
050 35 topics (2017-07-21 – 2017-09-11) 75kb
051 50 topics (2017-09-11 – 2017-11-25) 83kb
Current discussion

1 81 topics (03/05/05-03/07/06)
2 56 topics (03/07/06-08/08/06)

Please do not modify other users' comments or formatting.

Deletion of Pax warrior

I must respectfully disagree with your decision to propose the deletion of the Pax warrior article. I do so because I disagree with you labeling it as non-notable. I feel IMHO that it is notable enough to warrant its own page. I say this because the reason I started this article in the first place was that I noticed it in TIME Magazine (8/14/06, pg 20), a highly circulated news magazine. However this is not reason enough, so to further my argument I quote the article in which it states that this program is "incorporated into thousands of curriculums in Canada, Britain, South Africa, and will hit the U.S. this fall." So those students who take the curriculum and the teachers that teach the curriculum all know about Pax warrior. I also would direct you to the PeaceMaker (game) (which is similar to Pax warrior) page, which is very similar to the Pax warrior page and has not been deleted. In closing I would remind you that I am still a bit new to Wikipedia and if this makes no sense to you, then you may ignore it. I will however be reposting this post on the Pax warrior discussion page.Cpuwhiz11 01:05, 9 August 2006 (UTC)


I have declined the CSD for this article. I recommend you let the PROD stand. Also, if you do revert me again, you would have violated the WP:3RR, and I could block you if you continue to take an agressive, uncivil tone in this discussion. Thank you, Yanksox 04:07, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, if the tone sounds harsh. I want to be friends, really. From what I can tell on the article is that it is not speedable (WP:MUSIC is more for prods and AfDs, I'm sure you know it, but brush up on WP:CSD). Thanks, and if you need anything, drop a line. Yanksox 04:14, 9 August 2006 (UTC)


Thanks for moving Template:Republicanism I was rushing and did not notice I missed the colon :) Brian | (Talk) 06:21, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Vagabond (comics) stub

Quick on the draw with stubbing this article, i didn't realize i overwrote your stub until i was looking at the history, hope you don't mind! Impulse 17:57, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Little new to talk pages, I believe proper procedure is to reply to your comments on your page and not on mine? Yes, my folks were from Ireland, but I was born and raised in new york. The US doesn't care as much about dual citizenships as they used to, but I believe technically they don't recognize it. I've lived in the US all my life but I'm registed with Ireland in case I ever decide on a change in scenery =D Impulse 18:50, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Kiev Metro station moves

Hi there! I don't agree with your recent moves of articles of Kiev Metro stations. There are some station articles that have the same name throughout systems of the former USSR and I (and some other users) find it preferable to keep it the way it was before the move. Can you please at least discuss major moves on the Russia/Ukraine portal? Thanks, —dima / 18:37, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

In such a case can I please ask that you reverse all the moves you made. Not out of some unfair logic, but simply because it is time consuming and creates problems with redirects, thank you. --Kuban Cossack Flag of the Russian Empire (black-yellow-white).svg 00:25, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Niall O'Brien disambig

Hello you disambigged my new entry for Niall O'Brien by calling him Niall O'Brien (murderer). The thing is that he didn't murder anybody - he was merely falsely accused of murder and imprisoned for some years while this was established. I have moved his entry to a new name but I am going to flag the 'murderer' redirect for deletion. this guy was a really good friend of mine while he was alive and while I know you can't libel the dead, it's not great to call someone a convicted murderer so casually. I have tried to make the entry clearer. Curtains99 22:45, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

I know it was an honest mistake. No problem. People often confuse accusation and conviction. After his trial, many people only remembered the initial headlines and assumed he had been convicted. Strangely I noticed that he was paid a certain deference as a result. Curtains99 09:51, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Gay Library controversy

Hello. In the spirit of avoiding angry mastodons, I apologize if you believe I attacked you personally. That was not my intent. I believed that the article was rushed to nomination for deletion without adequate research into the nomination or the concept of notability of LGBT-themed articles. It was the process of nomination that I was criticising. I mean we have articles such as Convent Station (NJT station) - random commuter train stop as well as Kathy Caraway Elementary School with an enrollment of approximately 500 students. What is the differentiating factor that makes this library less notable than these established WP articles? As a library, it is ho-hum, but as a resource of the LGBT community in the Midwest U.S., the library is a big deal. Davodd 00:57, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Care to comment?

There is a discussion on Roles of non-combatant State and non-State actors in the 2006 Israel-Lebanon conflict talkpage about the inclusion of detail for Israel. I am of the view that Israel should be included but the detail is being continually removed by User:Tewfik.

Tewfik's argument is what he considers the illegality of Hezbollah under UN 1559 as the reason he removed the detail. However, Tewfik has not removed recent requests of arms sales to Israel such as jet fuel and GBU-28's. I believe he is pushing the POV that aid to Israel is only in response to the current crisis or the illegality of Hezbollah under 1559. US aid to Israel is in fact a long standing agreement responsible for the size and makeup of the IDF. Without the aid they would not have a military capable of engaging in conflict. If you can take a look and support my position (was working under that would be great. RandomGalen 11:08, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Redirects to nowhere

I'm curious about these redirect articles you created, all of which redirect to articles that don't exist: Layin' Up With Linda, Expose Yourself To Kids, The You'll Hate This Record Record, Welcome To Ax/ction Island, Love Songs For Patriots. What's the point of redirects that don't go anywhere? Am I missing something? Fan-1967 20:37, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

It kind of seems to me like you've resolved some redlinks by creating new redlinks. Wouldn't it have been easier to just fix the capitalization of the existing redlinks? That way the new articles, when created from those links, would have proper cased titles. The other issue is that redlinked redirects are a speedy delete category, and there are bots that look for them, so they may not stick around long, which kind of wastes your effort. Fan-1967 20:49, 10 August 2006 (UTC)


It is standard in English and with American names to alphabetize by the particle, so "von Xxx" should be under the "V" and "de Xxx" should be under "D". So unless the person is foreign born or you know of personal usage, please do not change the pipelinks for categories, this just confuses the issue. Thanks. Doctalk 00:45, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

That would be true in most foreign countries, but not in America. I cannot really comment on the British practice. But I can tell you that any library catalog, the telephone book, etc. you will find that it is included as part of the last name for alphabetizing. I did also read it here somewhere, and tried to find it again without success, before leaving my last message to give you the cite. I'll continue to try and find it, but I do know the American practice. What I've found best is in the case of "de" to pipe link with "De" so that it at least is put under the correct letter. Doctalk 01:04, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
I'll keep you posted, but just as an example, check your telephone book. Doctalk 01:10, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
Please do not rv the edit on Edgar de Evia again, his name has always been alphabetized by the "d" in every professional directory and I would suggest that you at least check the telephone directory as an example of many such names in the U.S. Doctalk 16:26, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
Now here is another case where you are making a real problem, Ignác Šechtl This needs to be alphabetized by a plain western "S" or it is thrown out of the alphabet altogether at the bottom of the list. You really need to look at what you are doing here or it could easily be deemed vandalism. Doctalk 16:34, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

On a related subject, please stop pipesorting Japanese figures by their given names. People should be sorted by their family names (surnames). If you do not know which is the family name, please do not attempt to sort it. (Or, better, attempt to figure it out, and sort it properly. Just as most Mac-, O'-, de-, and van- names in the West are surnames, so there are conventions and patterns to Japanese names as well.) LordAmeth 02:38, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Welcome to VandalProof!

Hi, Koavf/Archive003, thank you for applying for VandalProof. I am happy to announce that you are now authorized for use, so if you haven't already, simply download VandalProof from our main page and install it, and you're all set!

Warning to Vandals: This user is armed with VandalProof

Please join the VandalProof user category by adding either: {{User:Vishwin60/Userbox/VandalProof}} (which will add this user box) or [[Category:Wikipedians using VandalProof]] to your user page.

If you have any queries, please feel free to contact me or post a message on VandalProof's talk page. Welcome to our team! - Glen 03:07, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Chinese names and sort keys

Please be careful about Chinese names -- typically, Chinese names (unless westernized, such as, for example, Annette Lu) have family names go first, so the sort key should go with the first name that you see, not the second. Thanks for your help. --Nlu (talk) 04:21, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

My page on Han Gan (Han is the last name and Gan is the first name) is sorted incorrectly in Category:Chinese painters. =S Hanfresco 02:19, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Okay I realized how to do this sorting thing and fixed it myself. I've also noticed the ridiculous (sp?) amount of incorrect placement of first/last names. I changed some of these to their correct form, and will fix the rest when I have more time. Thank you for exposing me to this function on wikipedia =) Hanfresco 02:40, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Mass speedy nominations

Hi -- I notice you're adding {{db-bio}} to a lot of adult film stars' articles. Notability notwithstanding, my opinion is that you're going a little overboard with it. With all respect, could you please maybe slow down a little with that? -- Omicronpersei8 (talk) 04:37, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

I also find it relevant to note that most of the articles you're tagging do assert notability, meaning they don't qualify under WP:CSD. -- Omicronpersei8 (talk) 04:41, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
I'm somewhat confused that you marked many articles speedy based on not asserting notability, then removed the notice on the one article that doesn't. --Golbez 04:53, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
Hi, since clearly several people disagree with what you're doing, could you please stop and discuss it for a few minutes? --Golbez 04:55, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
Agreed, since the first page I looked at for these mass nominations was Jenteal, who definately qualifies for notability per WP:PORN BIO. Tabercil 04:58, 11 August 2006 (UTC)


I've blocked you for violating WP:POINT by mass-adding {{db-bio}} tags to articles on pornographic actors. Please e-mail me to discuss the block. Thanks. AmiDaniel (talk) 04:56, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

db-bio and block

I've sent AmiDaniel and Golbez e-mails explaining my position. Please respond at your earliest convenience. -Justin (koavf)·T·C·M 05:35, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

cat problem

hello, thanks for fixing the category of the Chinese calligraphers, but there is one problem: in a Chinese name, as in a Hungarian one, the surname appears first, so for example the surname of a Chinese named "A BC" is A, not BC. The order in that category is now not very correct.--K.C. Tang 06:38, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (common names)

I posted a response in Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (common names). Feel free to read it. CG 10:46, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Justin, any updates on the issue? -- Szvest 09:39, 18 August 2006 (UTC) Wiki me up™
What about Cedar Guardian? He seems interested. -- Szvest 14:33, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Seinfeld episode renames

I am going to close your request for moving Seinfeld episode articles. Another admin moved the one example you gave but you'll need to go through the steps for requesting a move for each of the additional individual articles you want moved - or at least come up with some way of getting consensus on each of the moves. It's not standard practice to simply say "please change all articles that meet criteria X to fit convention Y" without at least listing which articles would be affected, let alone without any consensus. —Wknight94 (talk) 15:27, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Ordering of names beginning with "Van" and "De"

Hi Koavf, you've been changing the ordering of certain Dutch and Flemish names, please see Wikipedia:Categorization_of_people#Ordering_names_in_a_category for the guideline. Jan van Eyck should be under 'V', not 'E'. I've posted a question on the Notice board for Dutch wikipedians, you can read the discussion if you want. Piet 22:30, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

WikiBooks Philosophy Department


I see you've started a new philosophy department on wikiversity. If you're going to be its head, you should also take over the running of the old philosophy department on wikibooks's wikiversity (where wikiversity was incubated). Alex beta (its former head) seems to have left Wikipedia/Wikiversity, so a new head is definitely needed.

If you are taking this role, you should see aboutt answering this question to Alex books:en:User talk:Alex beta#Soliciting some minor support in new project, which could provide some high quality content for you.


--cfp 17:18, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Page moves and subpages

When you do a page move like you did this morning with E. H. Harriman Award, please take a moment to check the talk page at the original location for the presense of /to do or /Comments subpages and move them too. I've just done the subpage moves (there was a /to do, but there wasn't a /Comments page) in this instance. Thanks. Slambo (Speak) 14:05, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Don't move pages

Don't move pages becuase from A.B. Foo to A. B. Foo citing "naming conventions". There are no "naming conventions"; if anything the former is more common than the latter. — Dunc| 14:33, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, to clarify Wikipedia:Naming conventions has nothing specific. Please stop. — Dunc| 14:35, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Naming_conventions (people) mentions nothing on initials. The last time I checked the consensus was that either could be used. Where has this been discussed? — Dunc| 14:43, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
Ok, well perhaps you need to discuss this at Wikipedia talk:Naming_conventions (people) first, to see whether there is any feeling on this. I think the original source for this was being a bit officious and waving his Chicago Manual of Style around so that there must be a space, even though other MOSes contradict it and there is no clear rule in English. My feeling is that the issue is a bit like Wikipedia:Manual of Style (national varieties of English), so you shouldn't change anything unnecessarily. — Dunc| 14:51, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
You need to give people time to respond to this, bear in mind WP:POINT. — Dunc| 15:49, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Please note that your moves of some popular pages have created a mountain of double redirects that need to be fixed. For just one example, look at the pages that point to F.C. Internazionale Milano. Formerly, many links in other pages to Inter Milan and Internazionale Milano redirected to that page. Now that it has been moved to F. C. Internazionale Milano with a space added, the redirects don't work properly. You might want to submit a request for Werdnabot's (see Wikipedia:Double_redirects#Lists) assistance in fixing these problems. -Big Smooth 15:53, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for checking on that... good luck, you are creating a lot of work! -Big Smooth 16:06, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
Look, if you continue like this, without appropriate discussion and making some egrarious errors such as mistaking a football team for a person, someone is going to Wikipedia:Block block you for violating WP:POINT. Slow down. If you get consensus, you can get a bot to do it for you, which will be a lot easier on you. — Dunc| 15:58, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

So get consensus first. The articles will still be here next week. — Dunc| 16:04, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Show me the discussion where there is consensus for you to make such changes. — Dunc| 16:08, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
You should stop doing it because your are disrupting Wikipedia to make a point. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" is a rule which is generally applied here. These are systematic major changes, apparently without purpose or very much thought, so go ahead and try to get consensus for this. Until then, don't move pages. — Dunc| 16:17, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

So please get consensus for this. A strict interpretation of one sentence of a guideline, when you cannot show where that strongly-worded consensus was formed, is tantamount to wikilawyering. "Anyone can edit the page" means occasionally that changes contrary to policy slip in. If you are confident that your changes are worthwhile, then getting consensus should not be a problem, so I'm asking you again, politely, and with all due respect, to please get consensus for such changes. — Dunc| 16:39, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

So I'm going to ask you again, where is the discussion? Where is the consensus?
I can specifically remember this not having consensus two years ago because it was unilaterally added by someone.
So therefore you should get consensus. If you are right, such consensus should be easy to get. — Dunc| 18:11, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

On Moving C.C. to C. C.

You moved C.C. Chapman to C. C. Chapman. However, "C.C." is a nickname and does not (in his case) represent an abbreviation of his first and middle names. The subject refers to himself as "C.C." without the space (see his own website for a reference). Therefore, I'd recommend moving his page back to C.C. Chapman - I just wanted to get your input. Doc502 14:56, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your help on this! Doc502 15:06, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Deleting redirects

Note that you have to also list the redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion, and that redirects are not deleted merely for being typos or having the wrong capitalization; those are kept to aid navigation. —Centrxtalk • 20:39, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Some of these, certainly, can go. But pages that were moved are generally kept because deleting them breaks old revisions in the page history. (If you view the page history for another article that links to the old location, it breaks when the redirect is deleted). If a redirect doesn't hurt anything, it is usually kept. See Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion#When should we delete a redirect? for reasons why deleting a redirect can be harmful and when it is useful. Also, note that tagging it with {{rfd}} is tagging it for Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion. {{db-redirnone}}, {{db-rediruser}}, {{db-redirtypo}}, or the general {{db|reason}} are for tagging something for speedy deletion. There are only limited criteria for that. —Centrxtalk • 15:24, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
The point is just that if it is tagged with {{rfd}} but not placed on the Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion page, no one is going to notice it unless they stumble upon it; it is not listed anywhere for deletion by an administrator. —Centrxtalk • 21:05, 24 August 2006 (UTC)


That is the name used by the director. Please discuss if there is any problem with this Doctor Bruno 16:03, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Move request for T.J., etc.

Hi. Regarding your move request for several articles to have spaces between the first and middle initial, where are people supposed to give their opinions about each one? Also, the S.M. Krishna one seems to be going to itself (S.M. Krishna → S.M. Krishna). Check out the steps for requesting a page move. Thanks. —Wknight94 (talk) 00:56, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Naming conventions, etc. As you can see, I've been moving dozens of pages to match the naming conventions regarding articles for persons with the name "X. Y. Lastname." All the ones that I requested were obstructed moves for which there would have been no discussion anyway. I've neither the time nor energy to keep up on consensus-building moving a bunch of improperly-titled articles that would have been moved without any discussion had it not been for an accident editing history. In other words, since there is already a standard, I didn't feel like consensus was necessary. Thanks for the heads-up on the S.M. Krishnan one. -Justin (koavf)·T·C·M 01:12, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
And yet a quick scan of this region of your talk page shows you've been catching a lot of flak for this approach lately and have even reverted yourself on one occasion. I also see some talk of WP:POINT violations and such. Hopefully some other admin will catch these when they come due because I'd be unlikely to move them without consensus. —Wknight94 (talk) 01:39, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
Sure If you make 1,000 edits, you'll make 1.) at least one mistake, and 2.) at least one person displeased with you. While I'm sure Duncan has his reasons, they've generally fallen on deaf ears, as no admin has contacted me, and there's apparently been no action on the administrator's noticeboard. If you don't want to move these pages, I've certainly no ill will toward you, but I'm saying that it's goofy to go through this process for something trivial and that should obviously be done. I'm busy trying to clean up some loose ends on Wikipedia, rather than discussing ad nauseum whether or not it's "S.M. Krishnan," when there is already a naming convention and a general standard applied. That kind of consensus-building is tiresome and stands in the way of people making useful edits to articles to increase information. -Justin (koavf)·T·C·M 01:47, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
At least a quick notice on the talk page would be a good civil gesture for people that may have the page on their watchlists - but I'll leave it at that. —Wknight94 (talk) 01:52, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

So where is the consensus? — Dunc| 15:20, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

I have seen your contributions, here's a link--> koavf (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • nuke contribs • logs • filter log • block user • block log).
You've started moving pages again, for no justifiable reason.
The question is, where do you have consensus for doing this? It is a simple question, and one which you should be able to answer.
If not, you are violating WP:POINT, and you are likely to get blocked. — Dunc| 15:25, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
No admin has contacted you? WTH do you think Dunc is? These page moves are quite disturbing as is your attitude regarding reaching a consensus for the moves. Besides [[WP:POINT] you are, as far as I'm concerned, violating WP:VAND, if not in letter then certainly in spirit. •Jim62sch• 20:38, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
The point of this is that you seem to have appointed yourself Grand Poobah for Moves. And whether you know me or not is bloody irrelevant, and to me it is oflittle importance that you find my having the audacity to post on your user page disturbing. A big part of the wiki-community is that any wikipedian can comment on anything any other wikipedian does. You may find this distasteful, but it is part of the Wiki experience.
You obviously missed the point I made about vandalism, as I noted I was discussing an intangible, the concept of the spirit of the rules, ane that has to do with disruption of wiki, in what looks like an attempt to make a point.
I did not, however, say squat about NPOV or your wiki-babel user boxes, so I've no clue what you're on about there. If you have an issue with Dunc on such matters take it up with him, but keep it off of my user page. •Jim62sch• 22:30, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Flame off

Please see Wikipedia's no personal attacks policy. Comment on content, not on the contributor; personal attacks damage the community and deter users. Note that continued personal attacks may lead to blocks for disruption. Please stay cool and keep this in mind while editing. Thank you.

Justin, without prejudice to the dispute over "space between initials", let me remind you to avoid comments such as:

  • getting angry
  • hypocrisy of writing [this]
  • pretext to complain
  • rude when you ignore them
  • what you really want
  • [you] find this distasteful
  • [you] find that disturbing

You might want to read Wikipedia:Avoid personal remarks. --Uncle Ed 15:50, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Personal Attacks

FYI-- I just posted this over on the Flamers site--

"From the subject of this discussion. "Arrogant"-- occasionally. But mostly about the people I have had the honor to work with. As for a "Fool" and "Mindless". Perhaps, like the scarecrow in "The Wizard of OZ", I substitute the odd diploma or two for brains.<grin> I hereafter vow not to post anything on controversial pages. Too many true beleivers, even if I agree with their "true belief".

A technical point. Donno your background. But, for your future information in judging bios of scientists-- Using citations on the net as a count is subject to gross artefacts.

E.g., unless both papers are actually posted as a journal article on the net (Science only does this back too about 1996), most cross-cites do not get picked up. So the place to look is the reasonable proxy "related articles" on or on citation index. E.g. Pubmed cites 96 articles related to Dr Mcginness' 1974 paper in Science, showing the first molecular electronic device. But, only a handful show up on a net search.

An illustrative counter example is the journal Stroke, where, unlike Science, they have recently posted full text articles back to the 1970's. With such articles, the number of citations showing on-line reasonably corresponds to "related articles" on

E.g., for this this 1970's paper in Stroke, Google Scholar lists 100 citing articles. while Pubmed lists 89 associated articles. Not too far off, considering all the variables.Pproctor 19:21, 29 August 2006 (UTC) "


You need to stop moving pages prior to consensus. Your history of abrupt unilateral moves [1] without chance for discussion is alarming. FeloniousMonk 15:27, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Arab League

..Salam Allaykom.. I find your recent changes in the Arab League article not clear, i dont understand why you have cleared out both maps i created, and i cant find them, for some reason... Regardless, you claimed that the first one did not have borders... so i ask you to see the European Union Page and check out the Map in the Infobox, the same place where my Arab League map was...

You also stated that the second map included Western Sahara as an Arab League country. the reason for this is that the Arab League Official map regards the area as an Arab League member, and under the Moroccan control, putting in mind that Western Sahara is under Moroccan Control, with no taxes collected, currency, or any form of independance there for it is within Moroccan borders, but i will be creating another map, and will be putting Western Sahara in another Lighter Green, showing its unique position in the Arab League.

i will be waiting for your response, and please do inform others if you will be changing there contributions.

thank you ...Salam...

Moves in reverse

FYI, you might want to look at the August 28 section of WP:RM. There are a few requests which are the opposite of the convention you're trying to follow. Adding spaces between initials is your thing so I thought you'd like to know. No point in having half the people trying to insert spaces and the other half trying to remove them. —Wknight94 (talk) 17:46, 29 August 2006 (UTC)


Those rules only apply to articles and their talk pages. Other than warnings, you can do as you wish with your user talk page so far as archiving, deleting, updating, etc. In any case, my edit summary was in poor taste (at least) and I do apologize for that. Bad day, I guess. &#0149;Jim62sch&#0149; 18:55, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for understanding. I'll get back to you in a bit (over the looong weekend) so I can try to answer your questions. &#0149;Jim62sch&#0149; 21:41, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
I'll explain the very weird message left on your page as well. &#0149;Jim62sch&#0149; 21:52, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

arab world map

eventho Somalia doesnt use Arabic as an official language, and is according to the Key of my map is an arab league member, Chad and Eriteria are considered as Arab countires, with Arabic as an opfficial language. in one sense there is no Arab Ethnic groups, since the definition of an arabn varies from one article to another, but the general defenition of an arab is someone that speaks arabic, unlike what most people think, being an arab can be a black, white caucasion, or any other color, the modern world's definition of an arab is someon e that speaks Arabic as there mother tongue and also someon that live in an Arab League members country , checkl out arab league definition of an Arab ,and the Arabs Definition of an arab.

so in one sense your correct about somalia, that is why i added somalia as an Arab League member, and not as an arab country.

i hope you understand what i mean and that my debate is in no way adjacent to your therory about Somalia's Arab-hood.

i will be adding my previous cleared out map, but later, since i realised that i didnt complete the Arab League word in the key, but later because i have alot of work to do...

BTW, i didn t understand what you meant by the Talk thing and adding (Arab League 19:39, 29 August 2006 (UTC))... please clarify more.. thanks and salam..

Moving football club names

quote from WP:RM: Stupid mistake of my own: I only moved some of the football clubs to obey the standard of naming conventions before I had a crisis (should they obey the standard or not?) I've moved them all back for now. This should be resolved though, and I'm inclined to say that they should be the same as people (i.e. "X. Y. Lastname" or "X. Y. Placename.")

I think that this change is a non-sense. In almost every contry where football/soccer is popular, the abbreviation of Football Club (or other similar abbreviations) is always spelled "F.C.", not "F. C.". In other countries (i.e. United States or England) is also sometimes spelled without dots. What's the point of changing it here? CapPixel 07:15, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Yes, but, as far as I know, the football club articles has always been written without spaces. And what about abreviations in the middle or at the end of the name? And Italian abreviations? CapPixel 12:24, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Benjamin "Pap" Singleton

I noticed that you moved the article Benjamin "Pap" Singleton to Benjamin Singleton citing "naming conventions." Naming conventions aren't always correct, and you should have some familiarity with a topic before making such a unilateral assumption. Benjamin Singleton was known during his lifetime and among professional historians as Benjamin "Pap" Singleton. That is exactly how he is referred to in all encyclopedia articles and professional essays written about him. There were already redirects going to the article from Benjamin Singleton and from Pap Singleton. Thus, your edit was unnecessary and now muddies the title for people who may have wanted precise information. StudierMalMarburg 13:03, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Spanish-Moroccan wars

My Campaignbox linking the various Spanish military operations in Morocco is obviously being misread. The idea isn't to imply that one side or the other is the aggressor, although I realize the term "colonial war" has that connotation. What would you say about renaming it: "Spanish-Moroccan colonial conflict, 1859 - 2002" or simply "Spanish-Moroccan conflict, 1858 - 2002"? Albrecht 18:07, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

African militaries

Sure, no problem, templates are tricky to work with sometimes. However, the one is question remains an issue, as its title now directs to "Military of Africa", a title which does not and cannot exist. I'd suggest just copying the Africa_in_topic template's content into the African militaries template and changing the title to suit. I don't see how any other solution could really work, unfortunately. — Impi 22:29, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

It's an interesting idea, but I'm not sure it will work. For one, we're still stuck with the problem that the Africa_in_topic template can't be modified to suit this, and it's also not entirely correct to speak of the "Military of the African Union", since it doesn't have one. Even though the African Standby Force will be complete in a few years, it will still be staffed by member contributions in much the same way that UN peacekeeping missions are. So just as we do not speak of the "Military of the United Nations", we can't say the same about the AU. — Impi 09:24, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Re Rfc

Justin! In order to keep the RfC clear for readers and participants, i suggest we limit the options to 2 instead of 4.

Arguments in favor of Image:LocationMorocco.png

Option 1

Arguments in favor of Image:LocationMorocco striped.png

Option 2. -- Szvest 17:42, 5 September 2006 (UTC) User:FayssalF/Sign

Thanks. I'll do. -- Szvest 17:46, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm a hoosier too, (n/t)

Kitler005 17:56, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Deletion of MaVeN

Why did you delete my article? You should have discussed it on the talk page first, mate. Santorummm 17:57, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Peter Gurney

You are very kind to point out your opinion on the tone, however I must disagree with you totally. The paragraphs and sentences are written formally, in correct English, and in the third person., Additionally they comform to WP:BIO. Judging the tone of a stub article three minutes after creation, especially when the dit history states: Created as a reasonably full stub. Saving as work in progress. more follows seems to me to be unreasonably quick off the mark here.

If you would like to suggest improvements I will be happy to consider them, or you could be bold and make them yourself. I am, however, removing your tone tag since I do not see it to be relevant. If oyu disagree please feel at liberty to improve the stub. Fiddle Faddle 18:31, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Talk threads get very complex. I have replied to your answer on my own talk page. As it says there I notrmally conduct correspondence on the talk page where it started, but I think we can get the gist :). I understand now where you are coming from. Thank you. Fiddle Faddle 19:31, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Stop moving pages

Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_(fauna)#Capitalization_of_common_names_of_species specifies the common names of birds and mammals are always capitialized. Please don't move all titles of commons names of fauna to lower case. Kevin_b_er 22:16, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

You obviously stopped shortly after being told that the moves were wrong, and I thank you for the cessation. Now, the right thing to do would be to search back through your contributions and undo the moves, and fix the redirects you redirected. I'm working on it now, but it would be good if you made some effort to undo the damage you've done. - UtherSRG (talk) 12:19, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

Going back and reading some of the other notes on your talk page here, I see you have a history of moving pages against existing policy. Next time, please look at the edit history and talk page of the page you want to move to find folks to ask if the move would be the right thing to do. Then wait a couple of days for folks to respond. Had you done this with the animal pages you moved, you would have likely encountered me or one of the other biology editors and we could have directed you to the naming convention above. - UtherSRG (talk) 12:23, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

Note on adding full Eastern Orthodox Project to your watchlist

This is a note for members of the Eastern Orthodox Project: Since the project's main page has been converted to a portal-style box format, each of the boxes is actually its own page (you can see the page outside its box by clicking the 'Edit' link on any often the section boxes on the project page, which takes you to the edit page for its contents). Because of this, updates to individual box contents will not necessarily show up on editors' watchlists, if you've only got the main project page watched.

In order to keep up to date with all updates to the Project and its pages, I'd recommend adding each subpage to your watchlists. These are:

If you add all of the above pages to your watchlist, you should be informed whenever any part of the WikiProject Eastern Christianity is edited/updated. To discuss this, please see the relavent section of the Project's talk page. —Antonios Aigyptostalk 09:24, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Out of curiosity

You proposed a (probably erroneously created, per my comments at the AfD) Eurovision entry for deletion as it was "non-notable" recently (here in fact). I'll grant that the article as written there didn't go a long way toward asserting the notability of the song, but surely second place in a Continent-wide - or wider, technically - contest like Eurovision is enough to be notable? BigHaz - Schreit mich an (Review me) 06:36, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Western Sahara in the Berber portal

Hi, i saw your insistence for posting the flag of the western sahara. Excuse me to disagree with you. There are no Berbers in the Western Sahara. I would agree with the flag of spain and france rather than the flag of the western sahara, because there are more than one million Berbers in france whereas there are no Berbers in western sahara, they are even more arabocentric than the other north african countries. you can see that in their name "arab repulic" and their flag that you might confuse with the middle eastern flags. I have also seen you sayying that the moroccans are also not berbers. Yes, that is true but it is a berber country like as it is an arab country too. So, the comparing was not accurate. Furthermore, i don't see any convincing reason for that insistence, especially that that flag is separatist. Their political leader said that the moroccans are not arabs, but they believe, at least, they -Western Saharans- are pure arabs. You can say they are mixed. yes, i would agree again, but it is not a question of race, but a question of identity/ethnicity. Thanks for your understanding. Read3r 17:47, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Please help settle dispute about Taiwan

On List of countries and capitals in native languages (Talk Page) it is listed as Taiwan

I think it needs to be:

with changes to native column as well, since ROC Citizens call there country China/Jhongguó not Taiwan

SampoTorgo thinks it needs to be:

with changes to native column as well, since as you know ROC is sometimes incorrectly known as just Taiwan. He also has said we should not edit it since it been 2 years since it been brought up.

I hope you can help, I just want to put this behind, and he has not said any thing about my proposals, The reason I ask is your one of the main editors of the list of countries article. Also, fill free to edit the main article to work out any unconformities. BionicWilliam 03:14, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Talk: Love, Shine a Light

Hi, I'd appreciate your input on this. AlmostReadytoFly 16:24, 13 September 2006 (UTC)