User talk:MONGO/Archive18

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what is that page were past Arbcom rulings are all listed? Thanks in advance. I was thinking that the wikipedia communitee (maybe myself) could list specific arbcom examples on Wikipedia:Attribution, to help newbies (and myself) know exactly what is and what is not WP:NOR WP:V, etc. Thanks in advance. I will watch your page.Travb (talk) 04:21, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Completed requests goes back to early 2004...prior to that, I don't think we had an arbcom, but not sure as that is before my time.--MONGO 05:31, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
Hey thanks a lot. I appreciate it.
Forest for the trees statment (which in my experience, probably will be disregarded, out of hand):
It appears like the wikipedia communitee are creating a virtual social system here:
  1. A legal system. With laws, judicial [the Arbcom] and statues [official policy].
  2. Maybe we are slowly creating an oligarchy too (we already have a benevolent dictator).
...I don't like it much, but I can't fight millions of years of human sociology and hardwiring. WP:CREEP Travb (talk) 02:15, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Re: Bush daughter articles

Just to be clear, I was only making the point that it was ridiculous to want a "criticism of Al Gore" article deleted while at the same time there existed a large number of articles and sections of articles criticizing Bush. Personally, I think if a person is arrogant enough to think they deserve to be the leader of a country then they and their supporters should be a bit more thick-skinned regarding criticism. My 2 cents. Regards, --Jayzel 13:38, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Yup.--MONGO 13:45, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Two Usernames

I use two usernames by accident. I must have created MachSeventy and then Mach Seventy after having forgotten I used the first. I probably use the same pw for both. What are you concerned with? Am I using valuable web space? Is an accidental duplication somehow worthy of your attention, or mine? MachSeventy 22:21, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Sure.--MONGO 23:07, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Montana

I would be happy to welcome you to WikiProject Montana. But telling me what I need to do is not a good way of introducing yourself. Especially, when I didn't place it where it is now--and to be honest don't know how to move it. If policy for wikiprojects dictates where it should be, then by all means please move it there. Or, tell me how to do it, since it appears you're a veteran here. Thanks.--Ltvine 07:09, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

I appreciate you moving the page. I wasn't aware as to what the practice was for moving WikiProjects from temporary locations to more permanent homes in Wikispace. So, I proceeded on my merry way, figuring a permanent home would happen in time. And now it has.
I see that you've signed up. Great! I look forward to productive collaboration.--Ltvine 17:04, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

I set a goal to tag the talk pages of all the relevant articles in Category:Montana with a {{WikiProject Montana}} tag. While being quite a chore, it does allow me to survey what's been done. (Though there's probably some way to automate the process.) So far I've only seen one current GA and two current FA articles that relate to the project. But I believe that there are quite a few candidates that could be or should be developed and improved. Its only very recently that I've become aware of the assessment process through the current WikiProject:Biography Assessment Drive. So I'll be learning more about the basics for that, but do what ever you'd like. Thanks.---Ltvine 06:13, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

I see that...good work. I have a lot of those pages watchlisted, as you probably guessed. I'll be adding some comments to the project talk page here shortly.--MONGO 07:35, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

My RfA

Thanks for your support in my recent RfA which passed unanimously - thus proving that you can indeed fool some of the people some of the time. I'm still coming to terms with the new functionality I have, but so far nothing bad has happened. As always, if there's anything you need to let me know, just drop me a line on my Talk page. BigHaz - Schreit mich an 10:28, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Request for unprotection

Hi. Just drawing your attention to this, which is a request for your talk page to be unprotected (purportedly so the user can leave an AGF warning). What are your thoughts on the matter? Thanks. Trebor 18:41, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

I have to guess that this is banned editor User:Frogsprog, judging by the fact that Frogsrog recently sent me an email, and they are editing North Korean related articles with the exact same POV. I can't imagine why this editor would have any need to leave me an AGF "warning"...especially since not once have I ever edited any articles he has.--MONGO 18:56, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
Okay, he seemed unlikely to be genuine. Regards. Trebor 19:07, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
If he means something like this, isn't it considered rude to leave a template warning to an established user? At least, that's what I've seen administrators saying, and it makes sense. ElinorD (talk) 19:19, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
It is generally rather sily to leave templated warnings on the talk pages of established contributors, and most find it condescending. That doesn't mean that editors shouldn't be reminded to follow our policies no matter how long they have been around. I have never edited anything that User:RuleBrittania has, so I can't imagine why he has any reason to leave me a "warning" at all. But the contributions history of RuleBrittania and Frogsprong are strong indicators they are the same editor...Frogsprong is indefinitely blocked and I added a suspected sockpuppet tag to RuleBrittania's userpage.--MONGO 19:39, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Compare the edits for yourselves....

As regards (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · edit filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log), if you should notice any more Frogsprog edits from that address, drop me a note and I'll reblock it. Sandstein 07:00, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
Thanks...I'll keep a lookout...the thing is, I usually just go about my business and someone like Frogsprog decides he wants to do his thing...namely, interfere with our efforts to write an encyclopedia. Thanks for your efforts!--MONGO 07:06, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads up on my talk page. It looks like the issue has been resolved for now. It's possible that the user will come back again with a new account, but it will probably not take long to sort out given the characteristic edits. --Reuben 22:18, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

No problem...we all deserve the right to edit harassment free.--MONGO 22:19, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Frogsprog AGF-6 Warning

On behalf of Frogsprog, I leave this blanket AGF warning. You're an established user so I figure you are already familiar with level 1-3. I went with level 6. Please feel free to point out that you have been warned to level 6 to anyone who thinks you need your user page unprotected for template warnings.  ;) --Tbeatty 23:34, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Radiation warning symbol.svg You are not being Civil to Your Fellow Editors as evidenced by your blocking the disruptive editor Frogsprog (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log). Further violations may result in Nuclear Attack or other severe actions. The consequent maiming may inhibit your ability to edit Wikipedia and may occur without further warning.Nagasakibomb.jpg

Wow. Beyond NPA into NNA. Georgewilliamherbert 02:42, 5 March 2007 (UTC)'s likely I'll be before arbcom once again for my doom is near.--MONGO 06:09, 5 March 2007 (UTC)


Thanks for your support on my RfA. It passed with 55/0/0. I'll try my best to be worthy of the trust the community has put in me. If there are any of my actions you have a problem with or a question about, please feel free to discuss this with me and if needed to revert me. If there is anything else I can help you with (backlogs, comments, ...), you can always contact me on my talk page. Fram 15:07, 5 March 2007 (UTC) wishes to you.--MONGO 20:36, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

You're confused

In regards to your comment about Citizendium that "everyone" has to provide their credentials, I must say you are thoroughly confused. The only people that have to provide their credentials are editors, which is the "highest" level of verification on Citizendium. Further, this level is only intended for tenure-track professors at universities; this is very different from "everyone". Indeed, only the vast minority of users of any such site would ever be tenure-track professors. Finally, even tenure-track professors who wish to edit aren't required to become editors -- they can edit just like everyone else.

The purpose of the Citizendium system is to allow the most-respected and trusted among academia to oversee articles, and review them to publish trusted versions. It is not required, nor intended, for everyone. Xiphoris 01:17, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the clarification...I suppose I'll still be happier with Wikipedia. Thanks.--MONGO 05:56, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

New NRHP Collaboration Division

Hey, saw you were a participant in the National Register of Historic Places WikiProject. I thought I would let you know that there is a new Collaboration Division up for the project. The goal of the division is to select an article or articles for improvement to Good article standard or higher. There is a simple nomination process, which you can check out on the division subpage, to make sure each candidate for collaboration has enough interested editors. This is a good way to get a lot of articles to a quality status quickly. Please consider participating. More details can be seen at the division subpage. IvoShandor 11:11, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Overzealous Moderation

Dear MONGO, I would like to express my frustration with your actions regarding a comment made by a user on the Talk:Collapse of the World Trade Center‎ page. A user made the claim that perhaps your moderator status should be reviewed. You then deleted his comment citing it as a personal attack and then warned the user on their talk page. I feel this is abusive and I hope that this comment is sufficient in avoiding further abusive action. Thanks. DerwinUMD 19:03, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Interestingly, if he wants to threaten my editing privilidges, he can do so here on my talk page as you have done. I don't like POV pushers...especially ones who are too lazy to register an account and or post anything about them on their userpages. I also don't like single purpose accounts that are here solely to add their bias to particlular articles. Maybe if I have a checkuser done, we'll find that some people are using multiple accounts to POV happens all the time.--MONGO 19:12, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
While that may be the case, it does not negate the fact that you have overstepped your bounds in removing that comment. If you had read the, you would see that especially if it is not a purely abusive personal attack, but a comment about your ability to serve as a moderator, it really ought not to be deleted. The main complaint I have however is not that you removed the comment, but the fact that you are close to threatening people for their actions. You told me that (paraphrased) "users have been banned for such actions." You did not threaten to do so yourself, but as a moderator, you still hold the threat of doing so yourself. I feel there is little distinction between him saying you should be considered for removal from moderation status and you saying to me "Continued efforts to do so and or support such actions have led to blocks in the past." Notably, you said this to me right after saying, "this talk page is for discussing how to make the article better, not for engaging in ongoing efforts to "out" other ediotrs." As I have said, I personally feel the events require no more action than your own, however, here on your talk page, allow me to state that if you continue this borderline abusive use of your moderator status, I will go to whatever extent is required to have your status reviewed and considered based on your actions.
The crux of my argument is the double standard to which you seem to hold yourself. That others cannot suggest an adminstrative action against you, while you suggest to others often that an administrative action may be taken against them. You use a more passive voice ("this may happen" rather than "I will make this happen") but the end result is the same, regardless of how you try to disguise it in the passive.
Thank you for your consideration, and I hope you will take the action required so that this issue will be resolved. DerwinUMD 22:56, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
I am not a "moderator"...what on earth does that mean? Looks like you and the IP have a lot in common? Comments made about editors should always be made on the editors talkpages...always so if some anonymous IP POV pusher is threatening to have an editor removed from editing...that is a far cry more than my information that someone can be blocked for making idle threats for which there is no purpose. I'll see you on the associated talkpages of the articles in question. It is a never ending battle to make sure those articles never embrace 9/11 conspiracy theory nonsense.--MONGO 06:23, 11 March 2007 (UTC)


Hey uh I can't get the html to stack the cat' bars correctly on Neoplatonism and Gnosticism. Please help. Thanks LoveMonkey 02:02, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Do you want them to be side by side or stacked on top of each other...if so, which one goes on top?--MONGO 04:55, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Stacked please Platonism on top... LoveMonkey 13:09, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Okay, I'll give it a try...might have to ask someone to help me on that one as I tried it already and wasn't able to get it to work.--MONGO 13:12, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
I have tried to fix this using a terrible hack. Templates and tables are often problematic, messing up layouts. --Aude (talk) 14:06, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
Your's look fine on my that should fix it...thanks a I will take ALL THE CREDIT!:)--MONGO 14:08, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
Glad it looks okay. Maybe this hack will work on other pages that we have problems. --Aude (talk) 14:11, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
See, I still have a few uses around here...I'm useful for finding editors who know how to clean up the mess I make! My confusion allowed you to make a new discovery which wouldn't have been made had I not been confused. Just for the record, I must have hit the preview button 30 times before I finally gave up. I better stick to being obnoxious.--MONGO 14:16, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
It's the {{sep11}} template that I've had lots of problems with and couldn't figure out what to do. On American Airlines Flight 77, the images would never line up properly on the left side of the page, in line with the templates, and I had just given up. In trying again to deal with the problem, we now have something that fixes that too. It should work anywhere else that template is. :) --Aude (talk) 14:25, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

You guys ROCK! Absolutely awesome! Thanks LoveMonkey 14:21, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

No problem...if you ever need anymore assistance with complicated template issues, just bring them here so someone else can fix it right after I make a mess!--MONGO 14:28, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

red deer range map incorrect

Hey Mongo, Sorry, I lost your email. It appears that the range map added to the Red Deer page is incorrect because it is based on the previous belief that Red Deer and Wapiti are the same species, Cervus Canadensis. I have Whitehead's Encyclopedia of Deer that has a list of subspecies, and I can identify separate out those subspecies that are Central Asian Red Deer (Cervus Affinis) and Wapiti (Cervus Canadensis). Anyhow, the map should only show the European Red Deer's habitat in Europe, North Africa (Algeria/Tunisia Border), and Turkey/Caucasus Region between the Black Sea and Caspian Sea.

-User:dlc_73 21:50, 11 March 2007

I'll see if I can find a blank map and color the locations of the species...or maybe we can make further adjustments for the other species by making them different colors? My email can be accessed by clicking the link on the left of the screen "E-mail this user", but it is best to try and add comments either here or on the article talkpages.--MONGO 05:57, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

glacier guy

Jens Esmark is the glacier guy. He probably did more that what is reported her. Regards, --Mattisse 14:55, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for that...interesting that he was an early person to suggest that glaciers were once much larger. He will be worth mentioning in an article I am considering writing.--MONGO 14:59, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Greetings from the vast right wing conspiracy

(Cross posting to Kizzle, Derex, and MONGO) I joke, actually they kicked me out because I wasn't on board with all of the spending increases and because I couldn't spell "Schiavo" correctly. Any chance you could look at McCarthyism, Joseph McCarthy, and my discussion with User:KarlBunker? I'm thinking about inviting mediation, but before that I thought I would grab one or two of you principled liberals and have you take a look, in case I am totally and completely wrong or am blinded by the pure white light of ideology (my preciousssssss). An RFC has to date brought exactly two comments/one new contributor. I will be asking Derex also, and maybe MONGO just for kicks/to even the odds. If you have two seconds to hear my pain, here's the question: should the fact that there were actual Soviet agents exposed within the US get mentioned in the intro to McCarthyism? Currently, the article IMO goes on and on about all of the hype and blacklisting and ad hominem BS related to the distinguished Senator himself (and I am not rising to his defense, from what I have read it was extremely nasty stuff and apparently truly unsubstantiated), but gives short shrift to the underlying reality of subversive communist activity. User:KarlBunker wants the McCarthyism article to be used as the descriptor for the period of anti-Communism from the 1940s on, but keeps reverting my addition of info in the last intro para pertaining to VENONA. To me it seems that if the article covers thirty years of American history, it should provide this important part of the basic context- that the shrill, hyped, insulting, defamatory anti-Communism of McCarthy and HUAC was in part a reaction to an actual Soviet menace- maybe even that McCarthy's BS obscured the real problem more than it did anything else. If you could get to this sometime before November 2008 when Hillary is due to impose the new national speech codes (Morality is Relative! Diversity is Strength! Multilateralism is Unity!), that would be super kewl.  ;) Kaisershatner 15:03, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

I can check it out...probably be a bit busy for about a day yet though.--MONGO 21:29, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
Thanks MONGO. Maybe I just need to let it lie for awhile. I appreciate your looking into it though. Kaisershatner 13:05, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
Thanks again. I'm going to let it sit for now; overall I'm not sure that I'm 100% right and I'd rather wait than push hard a POV that isn't justified by NPOV balance. Working on the biography article now, maybe less controversial. Yeah, right. Kaisershatner 15:30, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

A Good Red Deer Range Map from Whitehead's Encyclopedia of Deer

Hello Mongo,

I found a good range map for Red Deer and Wapiti from Whitehead's Encyclopedia of Deer. This book is based on the classifications of Red Deer (Cervus elaphus) and Wapiti (Cervus canadensis) as two distinct species with all Central Asian Red Deer subspecies classified as Cervus elaphus except for MacNeill's Deer (macneilli) and Kansu Red Deer (kansuensis), which is included as a subspecies of Cervus canadensis. However, this book does show the range for all subspecies of Red Deer and Wapiti. These ranges are consistent with National Geographic's October 1986 Magazine's article on "Red Deer and Man".

Can you please email me at I will email you the two pages that I found with the ranges for Red Deer and Wapiti in Europe, Asia, and North America, and will include the title page and the page that has publisher/copyright information as well. I believe the two pages are pages 226 (Europe and Asia ranges) and 228 (Asia and North America ranges).

The top of page 226 of Whitehead's book (which I will send you) has a good range map of European Red Deer which includes North Africa and Turkey/Caucasus Area between the Black Sea and Caspian Sea. I think this will be a good map to show on the Red Deer (European Red Deer) page.

-User:dlc_73 21:50, 13 March 2007

I sent you an can also send me one if you need...just click tjhe link at the left that says "email this user". I think you have already given me the info I need right here on my usertalk, but I don't have access to those books. Can you email me a scanned image of those range maps? if so, we can make an adapted map for the articles.--MONGO 21:28, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Hipocrite's block

I decided to address this here, rather than on hipocrite's talk page, since I don't think he really wants me saying anything on his talk page.
He called one user a 'dooshbag'. Then, when I said it was inexcusable to be so insulting, he called me a retard. He then called me a 'busybody' (which, granted, isn't terribly insulting). This was all in the edit summaries. The actual content of his corresponding comments were just generic profanity. Swearing to people and insulting them was considered somewhat uncivil. And some could consider calling a person a douchebag to be a personal attack.
As for the block being "over the top", well, you're certainly entitled to your own opinion, but I somehow have to doubt that you would ever call someone a douchebag or retard and then expect absolutely no consequences. Bladestorm 22:33, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

I didn't see the diffs as the blocking admin failed to provide them. It appears he is now planning on no longer attacking anyone, so hopefully that will be the case as he has generally been one of the best nonsense detectors on wiki.--MONGO 04:24, 14 March 2007 (UTC)


Updated DYK query On 14 March, 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Rogers Pass (Montana), which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

--BigHaz - Schreit mich an 22:02, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

My RfA

I appreciate your support during my recent RfA. Thank you. Shimeru 16:05, 17 March 2007 (UTC)