User talk:Nick Moyes/Archive 6

This is an archive of past discussions with User:Nick Moyes. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Archive 1

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Archive 4

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A doubt about commons

Hi, I have a doubt. When an image in commons is decided not to be deleted after the deletion nomination has been closed, will that image removed from the Category:Deletion requests or will it remain in that category? --Harideepan (talk) 06:07, 25 February 2018 (UTC)

Hello Harideepan Its not generally seen as very good form to ask the same question in two different places as this tends to create unecessary work for someone. However, I'm not absolutely sure of the answer myself, so will keep an eye on your talk page for an answer to the {{helpme}} request, and will look into it further when I return home and am no longer havng to access the internet via a pesky mobile phone. Sorry I cant help further right now. Regards from the UK, Nick Moyes (talk) 07:35, 25 February 2018 (UTC)

I'm glad to see, here, that you receive a reply to your question. Hope it helped. Nick Moyes (talk) 14:38, 26 February 2018 (UTC)

Pending changes reviewer granted

Hello. Your account has been granted the "pending changes reviewer" userright, allowing you to review other users' edits on pages protected by pending changes. The list of articles awaiting review is located at Special:PendingChanges, while the list of articles that have pending changes protection turned on is located at Special:StablePages.

Being granted reviewer rights neither grants you status nor changes how you can edit articles. If you do not want this user right, you may ask any administrator to remove it for you at any time.

See also:

Wikipedia:Reviewing pending changes, the guideline on reviewing
Wikipedia:Pending changes, the summary of the use of pending changes
Wikipedia:Protection policy#Pending changes protection, the policy determining which pages can be given pending changes protection by administrators.

Alex Shih (talk) 18:12, 26 February 2018 (UTC)

Save button

Hi, you asked at the Teahouse about places where the documentation needs to be updated. There is a place where there is still a SAVE button. When reviewing a pending revision, then editing, and selecting "accept this version - include pending changes" - you are presented with the old SAVE button. I presume this is unintentional and an issue for WMF. I'm never reported anything to WWF before, so just letting someone know who seems to be involved in some way in the issue. MB 15:12, 26 February 2018 (UTC)

Ah - that's an interesting one, MB. I appreciate you letting me know. I haven't had any experience with approving pending revisions, so have not seen this. I've just had my pending changes rights granted, so will take a look and either correct it or pass this on as appropriate. It won't be a case of reporting it to WMF as each language wiki is responsible for implementing their own updates. It's just such a shame that there was no proper coordination put in place for events such as these. It leaves too many users in the lurch. Regards, Nick Moyes (talk) 21:28, 26 February 2018 (UTC)

It's been months since the Save to Publish change (I believe), and I was expecting someone more involved to eventually notice and take care of this. But it hasn't happened yet and today I saw someone (you) working on these issues. Of course, it's not urgent because anyone with this permission is not likely to be "confused". But it should still eventually get fixed. Thanks. MB 22:26, 26 February 2018 (UTC)

No worries. I've spent many days sorting out this poorly coordinated mess since last December. You are right - but still feels 'elegant' when you finally get everything sorted out and working correctly. Nick Moyes (talk)

Update: @MB and Noyster: Having just got my pending changes permissions, I'm afraid I can't seem to replicate the issue that you both kindly reported to me. I'll try again later (less tired!), but when I go in to edit source and make an edit I'm still seeing'Publish changes'. When I then accept the revision I get nothing. What am I not doing right to see this? Nick Moyes (talk) 03:28, 27 February 2018 (UTC)

I still see the SAVE button:

1. go to [1]
2. click on review for any of the articles
3. this is where you normally select Accept or Revert changes; instead select the Edit this Page tab at the top
4. at the bottom of the page are the buttons Submit, Show Preview, Show Changes, etc.
5. check the Accept this version box (next to Watch this page) and the Submit button changes to Save Changes

Hope this helps. MB 03:37, 27 February 2018 (UTC)

Yep, got it. Thanks. I see it now - I was looking at the top of the page by the watchlist star, not the bottom. I take your point on this. I'll work out the best way of reporting this issue for you. Cheers, Nick Moyes (talk) 09:27, 27 February 2018 (UTC)

Editing News #1—2018

Read this in another language • Subscription list for the English Wikipedia • Subscription list for the multilingual edition

Did you know?

Did you know that you can now use the visual diff tool on any page?

Sometimes, it is hard to see important changes in a wikitext diff. This screenshot of a wikitext diff (click to enlarge) shows that the paragraphs have been rearranged, but it does not highlight the removal of a word or the addition of a new sentence.

If you enable the Beta Feature for "⧼visualeditor-preference-visualdiffpage-label⧽", you will have a new option. It will give you a new box at the top of every diff page. This box will let you choose either diff system on any edit.

Click the toggle button to switch between visual and wikitext diffs.

In the visual diff, additions, removals, new links, and formatting changes will be highlighted. Other changes, such as changing the size of an image, are described in notes on the side.

This screenshot shows the same edit as the wikitext diff. The visual diff highlights the removal of one word and the addition of a new sentence. An arrow indicates that the paragraph changed location.

You can read and help translate the user guide, which has more information about how to use the visual editor.

Since the last newsletter, the Editing Team has spent most of their time supporting the 2017 wikitext editor mode, which is available inside the visual editor as a Beta Feature, and improving the visual diff tool. Their work board is available in Phabricator. You can find links to the work finished each week at mw:VisualEditor/Weekly triage meetings. Their current priorities are fixing bugs, supporting the 2017 wikitext editor, and improving the visual diff tool.

Recent changes

The 2017 wikitext editor is available as a Beta Feature on desktop devices. It has the same toolbar as the visual editor and can use the citoid service and other modern tools. The team have been comparing the performance of different editing environments. They have studied how long it takes to open the page and start typing. The study uses data for more than one million edits during December and January. Some changes have been made to improve the speed of the 2017 wikitext editor and the visual editor. Recently, the 2017 wikitext editor opened fastest for most edits, and the 2010 WikiEditor was fastest for some edits. More information will be posted at mw:Contributors/Projects/Editing performance.
The visual diff tool was developed for the visual editor. It is now available to all users of the visual editor and the 2017 wikitext editor. When you review your changes, you can toggle between wikitext and visual diffs. You can also enable the new Beta Feature for "Visual diffs". The Beta Feature lets you use the visual diff tool to view other people's edits on page histories and Special:RecentChanges. [2]
Wikitext syntax highlighting is available as a Beta Feature for both the 2017 wikitext editor and the 2010 wikitext editor. [3]
The citoid service automatically translates URLs, DOIs, ISBNs, and PubMed id numbers into wikitext citation templates. This tool has been used at the English Wikipedia for a long time. It is very popular and useful to editors, although it can be tricky for admins to set up. Other wikis can have this service, too. Please read the instructions. You can ask the team to help you enable citoid at your wiki.

Let's work together

The team is planning a presentation about editing tools for an upcoming Wikimedia Foundation metrics and activities meeting.
Wikibooks, Wikiversity, and other communities may have the visual editor made available by default to contributors. If your community wants this, then please contact Dan Garry.
The <references /> block can automatically display long lists of references in columns on wide screens. This makes footnotes easier to read. This has already been enabled at the English Wikipedia. If you want columns for a long list of footnotes on this wiki, you can use either <references /> or the plain (no parameters) {{reflist}} template. If you edit a different wiki, you can request multi-column support for your wiki. [4]
If you aren't reading this in your preferred language, then please help us with translations! Subscribe to the Translators mailing list or contact us directly. We will notify you when the next issue is ready for translation. Thank you!

—User:Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 23:15, 28 February 2018 (UTC)

Ross Embayment

Hi Nick. Can you look at my sandbox for this article and comment? Also, need guidance on where to look for open source maps. Wiki Commons doesn't track them. Thanks. Bruce BrucePL (talk) 16:59, 8 February 2018 (UTC)

Ok, a hasty reply (with lots of uncorrected typos) wich I might have to finish tomorrow. In the kead, avoid "refers" and simply say "is". I'd advise you to use more references (not to your own papers) to support notability as a geographic feature, and to avoid risk of being accused of promoting a neologism or unrecognised term. How about this, and this. Avoid the negative of saying it isn't in an Antarctic gazeteer altogether, too. Maybe a separate section to civer the alternative definitions if the area. If you have problems citing sources other than your own, it coukd bebthat the cintents might be better placed within another article. That's not to put you off creating it - just thinking of possible objections.

If you can find maps (even a Google Earth view), there's nothing to stop you putting it in as an "External links" section. If you need a map making de novo, Wikipedia does have a team of volunteers who take on tasks like that, provided you can supply the base data to work from. Or one can draw one oneself in Powerpoint, by effectively tracing from a map image, and then converting to a jpeg. (Like this one I did. Could this map be edited to show an outline?

Must dash. Sorry this sounds a bit curt - not intended. Best wishes, Nick Moyes (talk) 23:45, 8 February 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for input. I'll make those edits. In the meantime I remembered the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Polar_Geospatial_Center as a source for ANT maps. I asked about using these on WP. Here's their reply -

"I'm assuming that you pulled the maps from the PGC website? If so, then they can be used in the public domain. We have a whole set of "restricted" maps that are searchable, but not downloadable. For metadata, you could cite the PGC as "Map copyright [Authoring Organization], Accessed from Polar Geospatial Center. [URL]" How does this apporach sound? Bruce BrucePL (talk) 00:00, 9 February 2018 (UTC)

I edited the ANT map (NASA) that you linked from Commons. I can upload it but would it be as a new file or a modifed file already in Commons? BrucePL (talk) 01:00, 9 February 2018 (UTC)

I must admit to being a little out of my depth when it comes to image licencing, so am unsure about the reply above. Anything that claims copyright does set alarm bells ringing for me. I have seen other Antarctic map images claiming public domain as they were prepared by US officials. Certainly, any map you modify thats already on Commons should be marked as a derivative file, with a link to where it came from. Thus, image attribution can be traced. The map I found was simply one listed in this category on Commons: Category:Topographic maps of Antarctica.

I probably wouldnt mention the Antarctic gazeteer. Wikipedia is only interested in which reliable sources can be shown to have defined and covered a topic in depth, not which ones haven't. But you understand the importance of this better than me. I'd recommend then putting in some indication of size/scale, and then a section on its significance. I'm also still a little unclear if the term refers only to a sub-surface modern geologic feature, a structure from a past geologic period, or if it might also sometimes be used on a topographic map to denote a large area. I'm assuming the former, but it's key that any reader is aided to understand the basics from the wiki article, and doesnt have to refer to the citations to get that clarity. Hoping this helps, Nick Moyes (talk) 10:14, 9 February 2018 (UTC)

here is latest exchange with PGC

Brad Checked with my supervising editor. If copyright is claimed WP won’t use it. No copyrighted content allowed. A bit confusing if maps are public domain then no problem for WP. Maps and images that are put into WP Commons are free use with attributes given of course. I’d have to claim this to upload any maps to WP. What do you think?

Brad Herried 10:03 AM (3 hours ago) to me Bruce, it's fine if you don't include the copyright. Just replace it with "courtesy" or something like that. Please check with me, though, if you plan use any of our non-US maps. — Preceding unsigned comment added by BrucePL (talk • contribs) 21:54, 10 February 2018 (UTC)

Sounds good. Just try to follow the same approach that other images of the same type have followed. If you prefer to upload to Wikipedia, rather than Wikimedia in the first instance, that might not be a bad idea. Wikimedia Commons has people who jump on images for the slightest error in attribution; Wikipedia is a somewhat less fussy. (One can always transfer it across later) There's an "Upload file" link on the left hand menu of each page. Nick Moyes (talk) 22:01, 10 February 2018 (UTC)

Nick. I think I have something that is ready. Can you look at Ross Embayment page? BrucePL (talk) 00:42, 2 March 2018 (UTC)

Test templating

Welcome!

Hello, Nick Moyes, and welcome to Wikipedia! I hope you like the place and decide to stay.
I noticed you've made one or more edits to women's biographies. Should you be interested in helping to redress the balance of articles about women, you might wish to consider joining our Women in Red project. Less than 18% of biographies here are about women - and you could help us increase this!
Here are some pages you might find helpful:

Useful Wikipedia links:

Links for Women in Red project:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Feel free to make test edits in the sandbox. Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~) This automatically inserts your name and the date. If you get stuck, please see our help pages. If you can't find what you are looking for there, feel free to ask at the Teahouse or at the Women in Red project's Talk Page. Alternatively, contact me on my talk page, or place {{Help me}} on this page and someone will drop by to help you. Again, welcome! Nick Moyes (talk) 10:44, 5 March 2018 (UTC)

Tech News: 2018-10

Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes

You can now make longer edit summaries. [5]

Changes later this week

You can notify users in edit summaries. They will get a ping just as if they had been mentioned on a wiki page. [6]
On Special:AbuseLog you can now choose to list only actions that actually made an edit. Other actions are when the filter warned the editor or blocked the edit from being made. There are also more search options. [7][8]
Wikis can enable Citoid to provide automatic reference look-up in the visual editor and the 2017 wikitext editor, but it is complex. The tool will now warn in the JavaScript console if the configuration isn't correct. Soon Citoid will disable itself if the configuration isn't correct. Check that your wiki is configured correctly. You can ask for help if you need it. [9]
The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from 6 March. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from 7 March. It will be on all wikis from 8 March (calendar).

Meetings

You can join the next meeting with the Editing team. During the meeting, you can tell developers which bugs you think are the most important. The meeting will be on 6 March at 19:30 (UTC). See how to join.
You can join the technical advice meeting on IRC. During the meeting, volunteer developers can ask for advice. The meeting will be on 7 March at 16:00 (UTC). See how to join.

Future changes

In the future you will be able to use global preferences. This means you could change a preference for all wikis instead of having to change it every time for each wiki. You can now test global preferences and give feedback.
You can now read about planned works on maps during 2018. This will be done by June. You can give feedback on the planned maps work.

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.

17:12, 5 March 2018 (UTC)

Naming of section pages

Hi Nick, Sections across plant and animal genera are not required to be unique. I started creating the section pages without reference to Hypericum (e.g. "Adenosepalum (Section)") because that is how the links were set up at Hypericum. But, I noticed that some other plants format it with reference to the genus, e.g. Carex sect. Spirostachyae. Since I haven't researched what the preference is for WP, I just stopped before making too many more changes. Chickenflicker (talk) 13:11, 7 March 2018 (UTC)

No worries - that's probably a good move. I just happened to spot the discrepancy in the naming of the redirects you created whilst new page patrolling. Hence the two messages I left on your Talk page. An excellent person to offer advice on the merits of creating/naming redirects to Sections within plant genera, as you've done with List of Hypericum species is Plantdrew - or simply post a question on Wikiproject: Plants. Regards, Nick Moyes (talk) 13:24, 7 March 2018 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

		The Socratic Barnstar
		For youyour extremely-eloquent and persuasive rebuttal against WP:TNT made at AN/I. 14.192.212.13 (talk) 03:41, 25 January 2018 (UTC)

Thank you very much for this! Nick Moyes (talk) 09:23, 25 January 2018 (UTC)

The decade old issue is now tackled and I can finally really lay back and enjoy the upcoming blue moon eclipse. I'll be back in Germany on Feb 2 to resume my work as database administrator so hopefully TPH would accept the fait accompli and grow up. Tschüss! 14.192.212.13 (talk) 11:47, 25 January 2018 (UTC)

As I suspect you'll have gathered, I came completely fresh to this issue. I really feel quite upset for TPH, because he clearly cares very deeply - as we all do who throw ourselves into these debates - and this project stays alive because of people who care. I really would have hated to have gone through that level of criticism from my peers myself - so it can't have been easy for him, or indeed anyone in a similar position. But failure to listen and learn, and continued disruption for others isn't a good thing. I think the closing admin said absolutely the right thing too, and I hope we can welcome him back into the XfD arena at some point in the future. Looks like I shalln't be seeing that eclipse from Europe. I'll have to satisfy myself with photos of projecting the transit of Venus into a cardboard box in my garden back in c.2004, and camping beside the Chiemsee back around 1999 to watch the total solar eclipe move across Europe. (I must get back into more skywatching again). Gute Reise! Nick Moyes (talk) 12:08, 25 January 2018 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Random Acts of Kindness Barnstar
	Thank you so much for helping put my fears to rest. I look forward to editing now and its because of your help :) LampGenie01 (talk) 13:17, 7 February 2018 (UTC)

New Page Reviewer Newsletter

Hello Nick Moyes, thank you for your efforts in reviewing new pages!

Backlog update:

The new page backlog is currently at 3819 unreviewed articles, with a further 6660 unreviewed redirects.
We are very close to eliminating the backlog completely; please help by reviewing a few extra articles each day!

New Year Backlog Drive results:

We made massive progress during the recent four weeks of the NPP Backlog Drive, during which the backlog reduced by nearly six thousand articles and the length of the backlog by almost 3 months!

General project update:

ACTRIAL will end it's initial phase on the 14th of March. Our goal is to reduce the backlog significantly below the 90 day index point by the 14th of March. Please consider helping with this goal by reviewing a few additional pages a day.
Reviewing redirects is an important and necessary part of New Page Patrol. Please read the guideline on appropriate redirects for advice on reviewing redirects. Inappropriate redirects can be re-targeted or nominated for deletion at RfD.

If you wish to opt-out of future mailings, go here. 20:32, 7 February 2018 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Random Acts of Kindness Barnstar
	Very nice person and Wikipedian , always ready to help other fellow Wikipedians. SouravDas1998^{t@lk to me?} 02:58, 21 February 2018 (UTC)

Teahouse talkback: you've got messages!

Hello, Nick Moyes/Archive 6. Your question has been answered at the Teahouse Q&A board. Feel free to reply there!
Please note that all old questions are archived after 2-3 days of inactivity. Message added by Nick Moyes (talk) 22:59, 10 March 2018 (UTC). (You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{teahouse talkback}} template.

Teahouse talkback: you've got messages!

Hello, Nick Moyes/Archive 6. Your question has been answered at the Teahouse Q&A board. Feel free to reply there!
Please note that all old questions are archived after 2-3 days of inactivity. Message added by Nick Moyes (talk) 23:01, 10 March 2018 (UTC). (You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{teahouse talkback}} template.

Tech News: 2018-11

Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes

3D models can now be uploaded to Commons. [10]
Page Previews has been updated to use HTML for previews. This has fixed many issues. An A/B test was done on English and German Wikipedia to measure how it is used. Other changes were also made. [11]
Some edits have to be checked against too many conditions before they can trigger an abuse filter. If that is the reason no filter is triggered the edit will be tagged for review. [12]
Auto-saving has been added to the visual editor and the 2017 wikitext editor. Right now it is meant to help if your browser crashes or if you accidentally close a tab. [13]

Problems

The abuse filter did not tag all edits that should have been tagged after last week's MediaWiki version had come to the wikis. It was fixed on 9 March (UTC). [14]

Changes later this week

You can notify users in edit summaries. They will get a ping just as if they had been mentioned on a wiki page. This was originally planned to happen last week. [15]
It is now possible to specify the block parameters for each filter in Special:AbuseFilter. The parameters include block duration and if the user should be blocked from editing their own talk page. The block duration is separate for anonymous and registered users. [16][17]
A hundred Wikimedia wikis will switch to use the Remex parsing library. This is to replace Tidy. It will happen on 13 and 14 March. Other wikis will be recommended to switch soon when they have fixed the errors that must be fixed. Tidy will be removed in the middle of 2018. [18][19][20]
The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from 13 March. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from 14 March. It will be on all wikis from 15 March (calendar).

Meetings

You can join the next meeting with the Editing team. During the meeting, you can tell developers which bugs you think are the most important. The meeting will be on 13 March at 19:30 (UTC). See how to join.
You can join the technical advice meeting on IRC. During the meeting, volunteer developers can ask for advice. The meeting will be on 14 March at 16:00 (UTC). See how to join.

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.

19:44, 12 March 2018 (UTC)

Getting templates added to Twinkle

Hey Nick,

I happened to read your discussion with Thegooduser on the Teahouse, and in it you mentioned you're interested in getting templates approved for Twinkle. Since it seems to be kinda off-topic there, and as I happen to know something about it, I thought I'd respond to you here.

The Twinkle source is hosted on Github, and the available welcome templates are defined in modules/friendlywelcome.js. You could make the change yourself and open a pull request, or if you're not confident enough in your Javascript skills, I'd be more than happy to do it. However, you might want to ask first on WT:TW if the changes you want are desirable. Another option is to add custom Welcome templates to your own preferences. This is a lot easier, but it'd mean they're only added for you, not for everyone. You can do this on WP:TW/P, under "Welcome user", setting "Custom welcome templates to display". Let me know if you have any questions! rchard2scout (talk) 12:57, 12 March 2018 (UTC)

Thank you ever so much for this, Rchard2scout Sorry for the delay in responding; I'm away on a hiking trip right now. I'd not appreciate a Twinkle user could set their own templates. I'll investigate this. The javascript looks easy enough to edit in a new template, but I think changes like these probably ought to have prior approval of the community - nor do I know how to login to Github. I'll get in touch again if I need your technical help - which I suspect I might! Kind regards, Nick Moyes (talk) 00:15, 14 March 2018 (UTC)

A second set of eyes.

Could I ask a massive favor and ask if you could take a look at my sandbox and let me know if you would change anything layout wise before I populate it with results? Many thanks in advance. LampGenie01 (talk) 14:51, 14 March 2018 (UTC)

@LampGenie01: I'm not the best person to ask as I know absolutely nothing about football. You'll need a lede sentence to introduce the topic. And some references. The infobox has redlinks to other season's result - I'm not sure you need to name the football club in those links. It makes the links wrap round, which is undesirable. I'm also on a mobile with limited internet, so cant comment on layout compared with similar pages. Sorry I can't help more. Regards, Nick Moyes (talk) 17:06, 14 March 2018 (UTC)

Fleming

Thanks for getting back to martifleming (talk · contribs). I edit very sporadically now and would hate for a new user not to get a timely response to my message. --Rifleman 82 (talk) 21:33, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

Thanks - I think our talk page messages crossed. Nick Moyes (talk) 21:37, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

Tech News: 2018-12

Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Problems

On March 12 early morning UTC, the number of 503 error messages increased due to an issue on esams datacenter. It has been fixed. [21]

Changes later this week

The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from 20 March. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from 21 March. It will be on all wikis from 22 March (calendar).

Meetings

There is no Editing team meeting this week.
You can join the technical advice meeting on IRC. During the meeting, volunteer developers can ask for advice. The meeting will be on 21 March at 16:00 (UTC). See how to join.

Future changes

From April 4, the autopatrol status of edits will only be accessible in the Recent Changes database table, so only for 30 days. [22][23]
In-Context Help and Onboarding is a new project, aiming to improve retention of new wiki editors. The goal is to give them short tutorials and other training experiences based on their activity. Collaboration team is expecting feedback and comments on the project talk page, especially from people working with newcomers.

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.

15:03, 19 March 2018 (UTC)

Re: A page you started (Pseudocolaspis) has been reviewed!

Hi, thanks for the page review! I've done as you suggested on my talk page, though I can't say for sure if Pseudocolaspis is exclusively African or not (I've not had much to work with for writing that genus's article so far). Also did the same to a bunch of other articles for genera in Eumolpinae I made recently. Monster Iestyn (talk) 20:10, 20 March 2018 (UTC)

Brilliant - thank you. (Every little helps) Nick Moyes (talk) 20:33, 20 March 2018 (UTC)

Re: A page you started (Amblypneustes) has been reviewed!

Hi again. I'll look around for the references again that showed E. griseus = E. ovum... I know I found something showing that last night, but I ignored it because I was working on Holopneustes at the time. And I couldn't find it again, conveniently enough! I swear finding proof of these things is like finding a needle in a haystack sometimes. (GBIF, ITIS, EOL etc are usually no good as they're incomplete or not up to date)

I did re-find another journal article showing the type of Amblypneutes to be A. ovum (aka E. ovum) though at least, so maybe there's hope. Monster Iestyn (talk) 16:44, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

WAIT I JUST I FOUND IT: [24] (I'll add this to the article now) Monster Iestyn (talk) 17:15, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

Re A page you started...Agelanthus (various species)

Hi, Nick. I have now disambiguated Salvadora . In the various subpages of Agelanthus that I created, I had not thought it necessary to refer the hemiparasitism of the plant, as the general page comments that the genus is hemiparasitic. In a number of the subpages, it is clear(?) that the plants are parasitic in some sense, as there is reference to the host plants. However, I have now included the fact that each species is hemiparasitic in all the subpages I have just created. (P.S. Thanks for your extraordinarily rapid curation) MargaretRDonald (talk) 00:22, 23 March 2018 (UTC)

Thank you. It's worth remembering that most people arrive at a page without ever going up to another page to find out more. So, to make a topic interesting, features like parasitism, being a xerophyte etc etc all help to make a stand-alone species encyclopaedia entry far more interesting, even if it applies to the entire group. (Page curation for species is not only a lot easier than it is for Pokemon characters or 3rd rate hip-hop YouTubers with no skills, it's also been my part of my life's work, and quite enjoyable!) I've also fixed the category sorting for you. Regards Nick Moyes (talk) 00:35, 23 March 2018 (UTC)

Fear of the dark interlanguage link

Your edit Special:Diff/832601066 is correct, but its description is completely wrong.

What the anonymous user 49.48.240.152 added is not a 'Category in Thai language' but a pretty correct (although old-fashioned) interlanguage link to the relevant article in Thai-language Wikipedia.

What they did wrong is adding a plain interlanguage link to en-wiki, which results in just a single, one way junction between the two articles. What they should have done is adding appropriate th-wiki link to relevant Wikidata records, which would have linked the th-wiki page to articles in all languages Wikipedias. --CiaPan (talk) 10:04, 27 March 2018 (UTC)

Thank you, CiaPan. I really appreciate you taking the trouble of correcting me. I hadn't encountered that approach before at all. Having made interlanguage links the normal way, this seemed most odd to me. It came up at the Teahouse in a question asked by Orpheus Lummis, but another host corrected my wrong conclusion. It's always good to learn from one's errors! Regards, Nick Moyes (talk),

The format the IP-user used was in common usage in those old days when the WikiData didn't exist yet. You can find it in a history of old articles. See for example four corresponding pages in different languages as they were back in 2004 (Caution! All links open ancient versions of pages in EDIT mode. Scroll to the end of the edit window to see the interlanguage links but do not Save those versions!):

English Physics from 7 November 2004: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Physics&action=edit&oldid=7199263
German Physik from 4 November 2004: https://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Physik&action=edit&oldid=3123973
Hebrew פיזיקה from 9 November 2004: https://he.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=%D7%A4%D7%99%D7%96%D7%99%D7%A7%D7%94&action=edit&oldid=109754
Russian Физика from 6 November 2004: https://ru.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=%D0%A4%D0%B8%D0%B7%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B0&action=edit&oldid=60891

Each page in any language had to contain direct links to appropriate pages in other languages. That was causing many problems with one-way linking (en:A linking to fr:A, but fr:A not linking to en:A), incomplete linking (en:B linking to es:B and to ru:B and back, but es:B and ru:B not linking to one another), mismatched linking (en:Q linking to de:Q but de:Q linking to en:R) and many combinations of those.
You may be amused to see a sample of work it caused – go to my contributions in enwiki and choose to see oldest... :)
Wikidata helped to cure most of those problems, also automatic tracking of pages renaming or removal, but certainly not all. Such problem is some topics are covered with a single article in one language, but are split into several articles in other language. This, however, can't be automatically handled neither in the old (plain-linking) system nor in the current (wikidata) system. --CiaPan (talk) 11:19, 27 March 2018 (UTC) (edited 11:27, 27 March 2018 (UTC))

Thank you - that's really interesting to see. I can well imagine the imbalance of interlanguage links that you explain. What a nightmare! (no pun intended). I tried via my mobile to set up the correct link to th.wiki, but 'Fear of the dark' seemed to be linking to 'Fear of ghosts' and its a bit too fiddly to quickly resolve. Will look again later from a PC. Once again, my sincere thanks for enlightening me on this old method. Nick Moyes (talk) 11:38, 27 March 2018 (UTC)

Meet at 7pm UTC on Monday, April 9th?

Hello, Nick Moyes. Please check your email; you've got mail!
It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.

More details, consent form link, and venue info in email. Let me know in reply or on my talkpage if that day and time work for you? Thanks! Jmorgan (WMF) (talk) 21:01, 27 March 2018 (UTC)

Derby St Luke's F.C.

Thank you for your suggestion, you were quite right — I hadn't made it very clear. I've fixed it now. Jellyman (talk) 15:52, 28 March 2018 (UTC)

No problem. It makes a change to NPP articles that aren't about American football teams or players! (Not that I know anything about football in any part of the world.)

BTW: Did you see this link to an event in Derby earlier this month? That one was scheduled for International Women's Day, but the University library is considering hosting some regular meetup for students and non-students on editing Wikipedia (or drinking beer), and I've offered to help out if it goes ahead. I was wondering if it's the kind of thing you'd like to be involved in or kept informed of, seeing as you're so local. I'm sure there are quite a few Derbyshire-related topics it could be interesting to collaborate on. Just let me know if you are. Regards, Nick Moyes (talk) 16:12, 28 March 2018 (UTC)

April 2018 at Women in Red

		Welcome to Women in Red's April 2018 worldwide online editathons. Focus on: April+Further with Art+Feminism Archaeology Military history (contest) Geofocus: Indian subcontinent Continuing: #1day1woman Global Initiative
		To subscribe: Women in Red/English language mailing list or Women in Red/international list. To unsubscribe: Women in Red/Opt-out list. Follow us on Twitter: `@wikiwomeninred` --Rosiestep (talk) 12:04, 29 March 2018 (UTC) via MassMessaging

New Page Review Newsletter No.10

Hello Nick Moyes, thank you for your work reviewing New Pages!

ACTRIAL:

ACTRIAL's six month experiment restricting new page creation to (auto)confirmed users ended on 14 March. As expected, a greatly increased number of unsuitable articles and candidates for deletion are showing up in the feed again, and the backlog has since increased already by ~30%. Please consider reviewing a few extra articles each day.

Paid editing

Now that ACTRIAL is inoperative pending discussion, please be sure to look for tell-tale signs of undisclosed paid editing. Contact the creator if appropriate, and submit the issue to WP:COIN if necessary.

Subject-specific notability guidelines

The box at the right contains each of the subject-specific notability guidelines, please review any that are relevant BEFORE nominating an article for deletion.
Reviewers are requested to familiarise themselves with the new version of the notability guidelines for organisations and companies. A further discussion is currently taking place at: Can a subject specific guideline invalidate the General Notability Guideline?

Nominate competent users for Autopatrolled

While patrolling articles, if you find an editor that is particularly competent at creating quality new articles, and that user has created more than 25 articles (rather than stubs), consider nominating them for the 'Autopatrolled' user right HERE.

News

The next issue Wikipedia's newspaper The Signpost has now been published after a long delay. There are some articles in it, including ACTRIAL wrap-up that will be of special interest to New Page Reviewers. Don't hesitate to contribute to the comments sections. The Signpost is one of the best ways to stay up date with news and new developments - please consider subscribing to it. All editors of Wikipedia and associated projects are welcome to submit articles on any topic for consideration by the The Signpost's editorial team for the next issue.

To opt-out of future mailings, go here. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 08:06, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

Thanks, Nick.

Thanks for your response regarding the Wikipedia article I'm writing about the artist from Palestine.

I have verifiable online proof much of her past and verifiable sources of all the colleges she attended as well as all the books, articles, etc. she has published. The weak spot is her childhood.

Are you able to take a look at what I have so far and tell me what you think? I have only part of the article written and am writing it in Google Docs so I will copy/paste it here. Everything you see in the article is verifiable through online sources — I've been working forever on this! I'm not done yet and have tons left to do and have not proofed and edited this yet, but do you think this content will fly if I can back it all up with verifiable online sources?

Thanks! George

Judith Elinor Weinshall Liberman (born March 4, 1929), is an Israeli-American author, playwright, and visual artist.

Background Liberman is the author of more than one hundred books and plays and the creator of over one thousand paintings and other works of visual art, many of which have been exhibited in museums, temples, public institutions and galleries throughout the United States and Israel.^{[citation needed]} Much of Liberman’s work conveys the plight of Jews during World War II, and she is recognized for her series of “large-scale Holocaust wall hangings created with paint, print, applique, embroidery, beading, stencilling, and drawing.”^{[citation needed]} Now^[when?] legally blind, Liberman continues to write and publish children’s books.

Family and Education Judith Weinshall Liberman was born Judith Esther Weinshall in Haifa, Palestine (now Israel). She is the second child of Dr. Abraham ( ) Weinshall (birth and death), and Zina ( ) Weinshall (née ... ) (birth and death), and the younger sister of Saul () Weinshall (birth and death). Liberman’s father, Dr. Abraham Weinshall owned a law practice in Haifa and was a founding member of the Zionist Revisionist Organization where he worked as a secretary for the Revisionist Zionist Leader, Ze'ev Jabotinsky. Her mother, Zina () Weinshall, was a poet, actress, and playwright, and was a founding member the theatrical group Theatron Eretz Israel (TEI), under the directorship of Menakhem Gnessin of Habimah. Saul Weinshall, Liberman’s older brother, left Haifa in 1947 to study law at Lincoln’s Inn in London but returned home in 1948 to fight for the emerging State of Israel. He died while defending his country in the Arab-Jewish War.

Education While in Haifa, Liberman attended the Reali School and learned to read and write in French and Arabic, and under the tutelage of Professor Yehezkel Kaufmann, studied the history of the Jewish people through daily readings of Old Testament scripture. Liberman graduated with honors from the Reali School in 1946. In August of 1947, at the age of eighteen, she left Haifa to further her education and set sail for America on the Marine Carp, a French-built ocean liner that had been used for military transport during World War II. In the fall of that year, Liberman studied journalism at Syracuse University, and in the latter part of 1947, she moved to North Hollywood and continued her studies at the University of Los Angeles (UCLA). In the spring of 1949, Liberman transferred to the University of California at Berkeley (UC Berkeley), where she took a class on international law taught by European legal and political philosopher, Hans Kelsen.

In 1950, upon obtaining her B.A. in Political Science from the UC Berkeley (Phi Beta Kappa, Highest Honors in Political Science) and at the advice of Kelsen, Liberman transferred to the University of Chicago (U of C), earned an M.A. in Law and moved on the University of Chicago Law School, where on June 11, 1954, she graduated Order of the Coif, first in her class, with a Doctor of Jurisprudence (J.D.) degree. In 1955, Liberman studied at the University of Michigan Law School (Michigan Law), where she was given the American Law Book Prize and graduated with a Master of Laws (LLM) degree in 1956.

Art Studies Liberman has studied various forms of art at the Art Institute of Boston, Boston, MA (drawing and painting), the School of the Museum of Fine Arts, Boston, MA (painting), Boston University School for the Arts, Boston, MA (art direction, fiber arts), Massachusetts College of Art, Boston, MA, (various mediums), and the DeCordova Museum School, Lincoln, MA (drawing, painting, graphics, sculpture).

Career — Preceding unsigned comment added by George David NH (talk • contribs) 19:44, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

Hi George David NH. Thanks for this. Following on from what I said at the Teahouse, I've put in a few 'templates' in key places to indicate where, if it were live, we'd need you to take some action. My advice is to approach this work, not as writing a detailed biographical webpage for family and friends, but as an encyclopaedia which may only carry factual, provable statements. I recommend that you cut out everything you can't prove at this moment in time, don't add waffle about who recommended her to go to univirsity where - nobody will care. To be accepted, all that page needs to do is say who she is and why she's notable. Family, education, the neighbours dog etc are all trivia, especially unwanted if you can't cite references.

Judith Elinor Weinshall Liberman (born March 4, 1929), is an Israeli-American author, playwright, and visual artist.

She is the author of more than one hundred books and plays and the creator of over one thousand paintings and other works of visual art, many of which have been exhibited in museums, temples, public institutions and galleries throughout the United States and Israel.^{[citation needed]}

Much of Liberman’s work conveys the plight of Jews during World War II, and she is recognized^{[by whom?]} for her series of “large-scale Holocaust wall hangings created with paint, print, applique, embroidery, beading, stencilling, and drawing.”^{[citation needed]} As at 2018 she is legally blind, but continues to write and publish children’s books.^{[citation needed]}

Honours and awards
Selected publications
References
External links

I would much rather see the above short page than all that unnecessary stuff about what ship she sailed on and how it served in WWII, although I fear what you've shown still doesn't meet our notability criteria. I need you to demonstrate why she is more notable than my mother who was also an artist and a book illustrator, and my shelves at home are filled with her work, but she will never get an article about her as she doesn't meet our notability criteria, WP:NARTIST. (That said, as her heir, I must one day upload one of her art school pictures of a nearly nude Quentin Crisp to Commons!) The better and more in-depth your sources, and the more you can hone in on how her achievements have been reported by others, the more chance the page has of being accepted at Articles for Creation. Only then need you worry about which additional bits of relative trivia to add in. I'm sorry to be blunt in my reply, but am I making sense? Nick Moyes (talk) 20:37, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

Nick.

That information is incredibly helpful. Thank you. Obviously, I'm new to this but I want to get it right (I don't understand, however, why Wikipedia users wouldn't care about Weinshall's neighbor's dog? :)). Weinshall is well-known throughout the American Jewish art community, and her works are highly regarded, so as I create this page, I will banish everything that's even vaguely irrelevant to that and include only information that verifies and supports her notability in the American and Israeli art world.

I mean it when I say that your help has been invaluable to me, and I appreciate you taking the time to respond and advise. If you were my student, you'd get an A+.

George — Preceding unsigned comment added by George David NH (talk • contribs) 21:43, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

You are most welcome, George David NH, and thank you for the grading! I recognise it can be incredibly hard for new editors to appreciate the intricacies of how we build this amazing encyclopaedia. We always advise everyone to start slowly, learning the basic of editing by making small changes to other articles, then finally graduating to creating that first article. I think it took me nearly a year before I dared try, so you're doing well, actually. I'm glad you recognise the best way forward is to focus only on what's critically important about a subject. The rest can come later.

Once you've got your draft nearly ready - or if you get to a point where you're convinced you can't find anything else out - you could always post a brief cry for assistance at the Talk Page of the Women in Red WikiProject. It's a worldwide WikiProject, trying to redress the balance of a lack of articles about women here on Wikipedia. (less than 18% of biographies are on women). We have some really great US-based editors there who might be able to unearth some more sources for you, or assist you in other ways if they think your draft is worthy of going live.

Oh, and may I make two unrelated suggestions, please? Firstly, please remember to always sign your name by simply typing four tildes at the end (like this: ~~~~). And I'd recommend adding a few sentences about yourself and your interests in editing here to your Userpage. You've not yet created one (so it shows up red) and I always tend to trust the motives of an editor far more if they've clearly taken the trouble to say a few things about why they're here. No personal details - just something about your background/knowledge/interests in editing etc. Regards from the UK, Nick Moyes (talk) 22:04, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

Again, very helpful information. Thanks. At your advice, I've contacted WP:WOMRED and informed them of the page I'm working on. Also, I'm going to write up a few sentences about myself on my Userpage. GeorgeGeorge David NH (talk) 02:30, 31 March 2018 (UTC)

Discussion at Talk:The Call of the Wild: Dog of the Yukon

You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:The Call of the Wild: Dog of the Yukon. — Marchjuly (talk) 14:33, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

Hi Nick. Perhaps you can help sort this out one way or the other. I can't keep up with pace of the posting on either the article's talk page or my user take page, and I need to turn in for the night. You're quite patient and good at resolving things at the Teahouse; so, perhaps you can help here. If l've posted anything wrong, feel free to correct me. — Marchjuly (talk) 14:38, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for dropping me in the doo-doo with this one! I can see why you've been chasing your tail all day over this, and why their insistence made you so dog-tired tonight. You must really be at the end of your tether. I think the editor is genuinely barking up the wrong tree in trying to add all that WP:OR. They really need to WP:DROPTHESTICK although, since you left, they've taken it to WP:NORN. For an editor who can't create diffs or remember to sign their posts, there's clearly life in the old dog yet. I'm pretty sure I can sniff that the consensus will not go their way, so I've added the article to my watch list and will definitely have a bone to pick with them if I see them continuing. They really will be in the dog house if they do, though maybe Bonadea will get there first. I actually remember seeing the film many years ago. You should try to watch it; it's really the dog's bollocks! Nick Moyes (talk) 21:55, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

Thank you for taking a look. I totally get that the other person is "passionate" about this; however, not only couldn't I keep up with the pace of their posts, but it was getting pretty hard to avoid sounding repetitive without giving off the impression that I was dismissing them just for the sake of doing so. Now that the discussion has moved to ORN, perhaps others will pipe in and give their opinions and a consensus will be reached one way or another. I've got no problem with that and thus will let others try and sort things out for awhile. -- Marchjuly (talk) 23:45, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

OK. Hope you got a good sleep. I'm now off for mine. Nick Moyes (talk) 23:49, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

Misrepresentation

Victoria & Landmarks is making falsely attributed edits:

Special:Diff/956047154 - adding awards to their talk page and posing like they were given them by other editors (including you!)
Special:Diff/956043583 - changing the name of an AfC reviewer to themself in a draft article

In addition:

Special:Diff/956045773 - suggests they had another account in the past without identifying the old account (sockpuppet?)

--Drm310 🍁 (talk) 07:00, 11 May 2020 (UTC)

Thanks, Drm310. Looks like this COI editor has now got themselves blocked. Might try to return though. Stay alert! Nick Moyes (talk) 08:43, 11 May 2020 (UTC)

Tech News: 2020-20

Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes

Everyone can now import photos from Flickr to Commons with the UploadWizard. Before this only autopatrollers on Commons could import photos from Flickr. [25]

Problems

Commons will be on read-only for a few minutes on 12 May. This will happen around 05:00 UTC. This is for database maintenance. [26]
Several wikis including Wikidata will be on read-only for a few minutes on 19 May. This will happen around 05:00 UTC. English Wikipedia will be on read-only for a few minutes on 21 May 05:00 UTC. This is for database maintenance. [27][28]

Changes later this week

The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from 12 May. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from 13 May. It will be on all wikis from 14 May (calendar).

Future changes

JavaScript scripts and gadgets can no longer check multiple keys at once via mw.config.exists() or mw.user.tokens.exists(). You can use exists() or get() to check one at a time instead. [29]

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.

20:41, 11 May 2020 (UTC)

I need to notify you.

my little brother made a nonconstructive edit (logged out, thankfully) I reverted it, but I would like to tell you that if he figures out my password, I want you to notify me immediately please (if there is a random letters and numbers edit its probably him). I know that "my little brother" is a common excuse, but I am telling the truth.Firestar9990 (talk) 03:54, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

(talk page watcher)(Non-administrator comment) Hi Firestar9990. My suggestion to you would be to do your very best to make sure that your little brother doesn't figure out your password and also make it known to him that you want him to stop trying to do so as explained in WP:COMPACC. Any edits made by your account will be attributed to your account regardless of who makes them; so, if you're unable to control your account and prevent others from accessing it, then there's a really good chance it's going to be considered to be WP:COMPROMISED, which means that an administrator may have no choice but to indefinitely block it until it can be verified that you have re-gained control over it. -- Marchjuly (talk) 08:42, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

Ok

Ok. I get it. I actually was just doing that for fun, not meaning to publish it. I think it has too many details and it's a bit biased. Thanks for letting me know, though. Dani Hart (Talk) 13:09, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

@DaniHart08: You're welcome. It's better to experiment on things for fun in your own sandbox. Once it's in a Draft: article the rest of us assume your intention is to eventually publish it properly, so I was just giving feedback. on that basis.

I wonder if I could get you to reply to posts o the page where they were first made, and 'ping' the posting editor if you wish - though they're probably watching your page for a short while if they've posted there. This keeps everything 'on the same page' - as it were, and makes conversations easier to follow. Just indent your reply with a colon, or at least one colon more than the previous comment had used. Cheers, Nick Moyes (talk) 13:19, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

Alright, can you tell me if I am doing this right??? Dani Hart (Talk) 13:25, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

Originally it wasn't quite right, as you needed one extra colon to create the indented appearance. But I see you've come back and added the second one, and so it's now perfect. You should always try to use the 'Preview changes' button to check how your reply will look. Nick Moyes (talk) 13:32, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

Alright, will do, thank you. By the way, do you like my signature? I learned how to make it different colors at the Teahouse. DaniHart08 (Talk). 14:52, 13 May 2020 (UTC)

Well done on learning to do that. It is just a litle pale, so some people without perfect vision might strain to see it on some monitors, though it's not so bad that I'm going to say you should change it, or anything like that. Nick Moyes (talk) 16:42, 13 May 2020 (UTC)

How are you?

Hi, I know you're a busy editor but wanted to check how're you doing ^_^. Time has passed and you're like my inspiration and a look-up editor (I mean an editor to look up to) ^_^. I am proud of myself today, I mediated between two users successfully. And that's great because I am, and I recognise it fully, a coward, because I back off easily when confronted or challenged. I have never stood up for myself and I'm I'm easy to back off ^_^. However, as I said I'm proud of myself today (in the internet world), I am proud of other things in the real world of course, lol. Well, just expanded the text to tell you how I am doing. Hope not to have bothered you at all, :) ^_^. I cherish you ^_^ (with all due respect of course, I don't know if that's a used phrase in English) ^_^. Cheers!. CoryGlee (talk) 21:16, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

Hi there, CoryGlee. Great to hear from you, and hope you're keeping well. Those are very kind words - thank you so much. Gaining confidence is like a tiny seedling which, given the right environment can grow up tall and strong, but it's still capable of being bent or snapped if pushed to far. So it sounds like you gently helping two editors is just the right environment for you to develop both Wikipedia skills, but also life skills. Once you have the confidence that you understand our policies and guidelines, it's a lot easier to advise or tell other editors how best to proceed. You've most certainly not bothered me, and it sounds like you're doing OK during this current world crisis. (Being young helps ... I envy you!) Regards from a sunny UK, Nick Moyes (talk) 14:53, 15 May 2020 (UTC)

From A to Z in one step?

Hi, Nick. I was gratified to read your response to my comment at AIV. I had been surprised at your original comment, as it did not fit in with my experience of you, and your further comment seemed more in character. However, I was somewhat taken aback by seeing that very soon after an incident where you seemed to be insisting on more warnings before blocking than I thought necessary, you then blocked an editor who had received no warnings at all. (IP 2001:569:73F2:DA00:41D1:FF7C:3180:425F) JBW (talk) 21:48, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

@JBW: OK - I take your point, and I've just gone back to look at that one, in case I made a mistake, or was being unreasonable (which I could have been). I'm only too happy to be corrected, and of course as a new admin I'm seeing how easy it can be to report someone to AIV, and yet how much more care/judgement/gut-reaction is needed in blocking correctly. My logic (if that's what I dare call it!) was that the IPv6 editor's 8 consecutive bad faith edits indicated a user who was determined to be disruptive and merited an immediate 3-day block; as you rightly pointed out, it isn't always a case of having to have four stepped warnings (I was wrong to suggest that, though still hope to by the general idea of it). I did think that one bad faith edit (probably from a bored kid) didn't merit reporting and immediate blocking. It might sound oxymoronic, but where AGF is justified, I do genuinely try to give it; though there are times at when dealing with vandalism that one daren't assume too much. Getting the balance right - both as a reporter and an admin responding to those reports - is never easy. I do try to give feedback by engaging with AIV reporters if I think they've been a bit gung-ho, just as I appreciate you saying the same to me as a new admin, as I may equally have been in the case of that IP. (I'm often told by other admins that I'm too generous towards people, so maybe AIV is turning me nasty. (I hope not!) I genuinely mean it when I say please feel free to offer further constructive criticism in future, too, as that way I can learn, and everyone benefits. (Sorry for the TL;DR wall of words!) Cheers, Nick Moyes (talk) 22:16, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

Wow! Are you really a new admin? I thought you had been one for ages. If I'd realised, I would have expressed myself in gentler terms, so as not to bite a newbie admin. I probably came across as more critical than I meant to be. I am used to assuming that seasoned admins (which I wrongly thought you were) will take such remarks lightly, but I am sure when I was a new admin I was nervous enough about possibly doing anything wrong that I would have found such remarks intimidating, so please accept my apology for the way I expressed myself.

For what it's worth, here are my thoughts on what you did. (I will try to be more diplomatic this time.) Firstly, regarding the comments at AIV, I fully agree with the essential substance of what you said. The report was inappropriate for an editor with only one edit and one warning, and you were right to decline to take action. The only significant point where I didn't agree was your remark about level 4 warnings, which has already been covered, and I don't see any need to say any more. Secondly, regarding the IP block, while usually warnings are required before a block, there are exceptions, and I agree with you that one such exception is a string of bad-faith edits such as were made by the IP editor. I felt that particular case was borderline, and I hesitated between blocking and warning, and had just decided to go with a warning when you beat me to it with a block. I absolutely don't have any criticism of what you did, even though you made a different decision than me; it was a matter of judgement. My message about it was just because I was amused by the contrast between two incidents which came so close together, not because I wished to criticise what you did. (I also intended the emoticon I posted above to indicate that my comment was just a matter of expressing amusement rather than criticism.)

Well, if you've made it this far through that wall of text, I hope my remarks were of interest, or use, or maybe even both. I've also checked your user rights log before saving this message, and I see it's almost four months since your adminship, but a rather belated welcome to the admin corps anyway. JBW (talk) 23:15, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

Just one more comment. I've now looked at your RfA. 180:3 - pretty impressive! Puts me to shame: I got both far fewer supports and more opposes. JBW (talk) 23:20, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

Thank you - for all the comments, in fact. I'm not sure at what point one is deemed to no longer be a 'newbie admin'. Tony Ballioni seemed to take about ten minutes; I'm working on an apprenticeship of at least five years! I certainly didn't feel bitten. Having a steer, or even a challenge to think carefully about how we impact on other editors, is never a bad thing, and I might just as equally have made the point you made to me had I seen someone else saying one thing, then seemingly doing precisely the opposite a moment later. And I appreciate your breakdown of how you were approaching it. Funnily enough, I feel I'm normally in your shoes: thinking about what warning to give, when along comes someone like MaterialScientist and hands out a huge block to some errant soul. As you know, we've recently had quite a few long-serving and otherwise admirable admins who've perhaps not considered the effects of their actions on others, with some ending up losing the bit. I don't think it does any harm to show the community that admins aren't some sort of all-powerful bully-elite, and can be subject to control. Whilst not advocating summary executions of admins for the odd mistake, it does no harm to show that we don't tolerate poor attitudes or behaviour from anyone.

The one thing I have decided I might on very rare occasions do (per WP:IAR, and I've discussed my rationale off-wiki with one of my RfA nominators) is to handout out an 'infinite' block to any IP doing really egregious behaviour (death threats/really nasty racist abuse etc), but then to return some days later to reduce it to a shorter block, more in accordance with our IP blocking guidelines. Whilst fully accepting we shouldn't hand out infinite blocks to IPs, the really heinous behaviour I've luckily only rarely seen here should, in my view, be met with more than a mildly deterring 'slap on the wrist' of a block of just a few days. So if you ever see me giving an infinite block to an IP, my intention will always be to come back and reduce it sometime afterwards; if I fail to do that, feel free to reduce or unblock them for me. Nick Moyes (talk) 00:31, 15 May 2020 (UTC)

Very interesting. There are quite a few things there that I very much agree with. One of them is the frustrating experience of putting some thought into deciding on a suitably friendly warning to give to an editor who has fallen foul of our guidelines, only to see another administrator just come along and slap a block on. Unfortunately, the system favours admins who choose to block over those who don't: if you and I simultaneously consider a report at AIV, and if you decide to post a warning, and I then decide to block, I am perfectly free to do so, effectively over-riding your decision, but you can't over-ride my decision without coming up against all the stuff in the policies on blocking and administrators about not reverting another admin's actions without consulting them, etc etc. The idea of handing out an apparently long IP block as a deterrent, but with the intention of coming back and shortening it when the culprit has had time to see the block, is one that I used to use fairly frequently many years ago, but I stopped doing it, because all too often I forgot to come back and unblock. (And yes, of course I can keep a note to remind me, but that's no use if I then don't check the reminder. It's one of the symptoms of Attention Deficit Disorder, with which I am cursed.) JBW (talk) 23:02, 15 May 2020 (UTC)

Growth team newsletter #13

Welcome to the thirteenth newsletter from the Growth team!

The Growth team's objective is to work on software changes that help retain new contributors in mid-size Wikimedia projects.

Join the conversation: structured tasks

We are looking for community input on a new project to make it easy for newcomers to make real article edits.

In our previous newsletter, we talked about the productive edits coming from the newcomer tasks feature. Those good results have continued: about 900 newcomers made over 5,000 suggested edits so far. We've learned that newcomers are interested in receiving suggested edits.

Now, we are thinking about how to supply them a feed of easy edits that will help more of them be successful quickly. We have a new idea called "structured tasks". This would aim to break down edits into steps that are easy for newcomers and easy on mobile devices.

In the past, certain kinds of editing tasks have been structured. For instance, adding categories through HotCat. Now, we are thinking about how to structure the editing of articles. The goal is to allow newcomers can make large content additions, especially from their mobile devices.

Please visit the project page and respond to the discussion questions listed on the talk page. You are welcome to show this project to others in your community. You can help by translating the materials to your language so that more voices can join in. We will be having this conversation until June 18.

Expanding to more wikis

We have expanded to six new wikis, and are looking for more interested communities.

In the last two months, we deployed Growth features to six new wikis: Ukrainian, Serbian, Hungarian, Armenian, and Basque Wikipedias, and French Wiktionary. Newcomers from these wikis have already contributed over 600 edits through Growth features.

We want to expand to more wikis in the coming months, and we are looking for interested communities. French Wikipedia already agreed and will be the next one to join the experiment. We will contact several other wikis in the coming weeks to offer them to participate.

Do you think the Growth Team features would be a good addition to your wiki? Please see this translatable summary of Growth features. You can share with your communities and start a discussion. Then, please contact us to begin the process!

Other updates

Work continues on improving newcomer tasks and the homepage.

In March, we deployed an upgrade to the topic matching in newcomer tasks. The current version offers 39 different topics using new ORES models.
In April, we completed an A/B test of two homepage configurations. We learned that more newcomers will attempt suggested edits if the module is made more prominent. We are implementing those learnings in our next test. See the full results here.
We are currently working on guidance for newcomer tasks. It will use the help panel to guide newcomers through completing easy edits.
Our next step is to create new configurations of the homepage. The goal is to encourage more newcomers to begin doing suggested edits.

As usual, we are still welcoming your feedback and questions about our features. Please contact us on the project talk page!

Growth team's newsletter prepared by the Growth team and posted by bot • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.

14:29, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

Tech News: 2020-21

Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes

If you forget your password you can ask for a new one to be sent to your email address. You need to know your email address or your username. You can choose that you need to enter both your email address and your username. This is a preference. This is to get fewer password reset emails someone else asked for. This is now available on all Wikimedia wikis. [30][31]

Problems

There is a bug that creates problems for iPhone users with iOS 13 and Safari. If you use an iPhone to read or edit Wikipedia and see bugs on the mobile site you can report them. [32]
Several wikis including Wikidata will be on read-only for a few minutes on 19 May. This will happen around 05:00 UTC. English Wikipedia will be on read-only for a few minutes on 21 May 05:00 UTC. This is for database maintenance. [33][34]

Changes later this week

The Wikipedia app for Android can let users add depicts on Commons. The beta version used computer-aided tagging. This was removed to get more specific depicts. [35]
There is no new MediaWiki version this week.

Future changes

Graphs will be rendered in the reader's browser. This will use Javascript. Graphs will hopefully work better for everyone who uses Javascript. It will not work for users who don't use Javascript. This will not affect diagrams in image files. [36]
Some CSS for the skins has been simplified. This affects div#p-personal, div#p-navigation, div#p-interaction, div#p-tb, div#p-lang, div#p-namespaces, div#p-variants and div#footer. They will have to remove div. You will have to update your gadgets, scripts or user styles. This is so we can use HTML5. [37]
Some CSS for the Vector skin has been changed. This affects #p-variants, #p-namespaces, #p-personal, #p-views and #p-cactions. They can no longer use > ul. You might need to update your gadgets, scripts or user styles. See how.

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.

17:19, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

Easy referencing for beginners

Easy Referencing for Beginners (Video)

Hello. I just wanted to let you know how impressed I was with your recent video, File:Easy Referencing for Beginners.webm. It's clear and couldn't be simpler. I know you added it on WP:ERB but I think you should replace the current video at Help:Referencing for beginners#RefToolbar and WP:INTREF3 with your video. The old one is bad quality and complicated - yours would be a much needed update. Hillelfrei ^talk 04:56, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for that feedback, Hillelfrei. It was rather done on the fly, and in only a few takes (but still sees me fluffing a few words and forgetting to prove that the citation link actually works at the end.) It was something I thought I might try out when answering at the Teahouse. However, I think others should decide on its wider usefulness, not me (especially as I don't like hearing my own voice). I'll ping @Sdkb and Moxy: so they can consider your suggestion. (I'm also happy to consider ways to improve it, but can't guarantee I can fix that straight away.) Nick Moyes (talk) 08:15, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

@Nick Moyes: Thanks for the ping (and woah I love hearing your accent)! Overall, I think the video is an improvement, so I'd support it if we're choosing between the two we have available. I like the overall enthusiasm and friendliness, the visual design is up to date, and you include the autofill tool, which is really important. That said, I think there could be some further improvements. Some thoughts:

5 minutes seems a little long; if we're able to tighten it up, that might make people more likely to watch it. The instruction not to use Google's knowledge graph as a source could be mostly cut out, I think.
The audio quality is unfortunately not good. Recording in a closet and throwing a blanket over yourself (yes, actually) could help with that. (also speak close to the mic at a consistent distance, articulate as well as you can, etc.)
GorillaWarfare's video (link) explains (rather than just alludes to) how to re-use references, which I think is a little more helpful than how to add the reference section.
The text is hard to read since the video quality is necessarily a little compressed. Maybe zoom in or change the computer's text size setting?
Of the three screencasts in the Help:Intro series, this is the only one with a female narrator. I think it's important for new editors to see representation of active female Wikipedians, so ideally I'd prefer we don't end up with all three having a male narrator.

Videos are super hard to do well overall, so unless we get the WMF involved it won't be perfect, but they're nice to have as an option since some people prefer to learn that way. {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 09:12, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

Yeah, thanks: I agree with all those points, except the one about video quality. Users have the option to select the best quality offered them, and the original WebM source on Commons is pretty good. Problem is - that's an issue for Wikimedia Commons to sort out, and I think the default format offered on file display is HD 720, which is not so clear as my original that's downloadable from Commons. I'm not even sure if all browsers support the Commons preferred format of WebM. Advice over there is as clear as mud, and finding good, non-technical information on Commons about displaying videos is almost as hard as spotting a vicar in a brothel! But at least my little play around might keep Interstellarity happy! (see here). Cheers, Nick Moyes (talk) 09:39, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

It sure will. I remember you saying you are bad at making videos. I find that statement untrue. You have the potential to make good quality videos here. Stay safe, Interstellarity (talk) 11:09, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

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