User talk:Notjackbrown

Rename Q

Is it possible to rename a page? Or delete an existing page so that it may be replaced with another?

the page en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_State_Roller_Derby_League should be called "Sun State Roller Girls"

I'm a member of the Sun state roller Girls and we went to crate a wiki page, only to discover that someone had created this one... complete with inaccurate information.

We could keep this existing page and continue to fix the content - but it should be renamed. Please help

Notjackbrown (talk) 07:02, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

Not a problem. You could move it yourself (it's on the page menu - depends what skin you use where it is) I've moved it for you to Sun State Roller Girls --Elen of the Roads (talk) 14:19, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

THANK YOU Elen of the Roads. I notice the page's URL wiki/Sun_State_Roller_Derby_League still works. Does that change automatically? or something? (I notice that wiki/Sun_State_Roller_Girls goes to the page as well)

I left a redirect behind, so anyone searching for Sun State Roller Derby League will get taken to Sun State Roller Girls. If Sun State are blessed with multiple roller derby leagues, the page can be changed into a WP:DAB page, with links to each of the articles. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 13:39, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

Thank you! Over the last day or so I've encountered too many unhelpful people... you are the only person who has really helped and made things better. Notjackbrown (talk) 14:07, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

re:Sun State Roller Derby

Thanks for reminding me. Sincerely. Wagino 20100516 (talk) 08:19, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

I have to apologize if what I have done is wrong. But if the mistake is only a few of the hundreds or even thousands that I have done, meaning it was not intentional to me. But the criticism of your greatly appreciated and add to my prudence in the next act. Thank you. Wagino 20100516 (talk) 09:35, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

Hi. Regarding factually incorrect information: if it is incorrect, my apologies. Some one nominated it for speedy deletion and I went looking for sources to hop with WP:GNG. I didn't feel that the sources I used had any factual errors. Hence my usage. If you have better sources, especially newspaper and television sources, please use and correct. Would love to see more Aussie derby articles improved. --LauraHale (talk) 02:12, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

There are roller derby leagues in Australia that might be deletable but your league isn't one of them: The league is sending players to the World Cup, has competed in important interstate bouts and tournaments, and if you look around in the right places, has substantial press coverage. I was basically just quickly looking for sources to fill it in as fast as possible. If you need any help, let me know. I've done a fair bit of work on the Canberra Roller Derby League article so I think I've mostly kind of figured out how the league articles work. (Trying to get that on to the main page of Wikipedia at some point in the next year.) --LauraHale (talk) 03:02, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

The reason I removed information is because it is not verifiable. Something being true and factual is not enough on Wikipedia: The information needs to be verifiable. Links to the league website were removed because the main page did not support the facts before the citation. I'm probably going to do a purge of the article some time tomorrow of any information that does not have a source. Please take some time and read Wikipedia:CITE and Wikipedia:V as they should help explain it. From Wikipedia's point of view, my inaccurate but correctly cited information that people can verify the facts of by checking those sources is better than your facts. That's just the way Wikipedia is. Please add facts, but please include them so some one not affiliated from the league can check a website or television show or newspaper and go "Yup! That's true. The Canberra Times verifies that is the truth!" --LauraHale (talk) 09:27, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

Notjackbrown - hi :-) Welcome to Wikipedia.

It is both weird, and harsh, at first; PLEASE stick with it!

I absolutely agree with LauraHale's comments; information MUST be verifiable, otherwise it is useless. Imagine if you write that "Chzz was born in Australia" - and later someone writes "Chzz was born in America" - and so on...well, I was born in England! I should know!!!111eleven... but, sadly, I am not 'famous' so the info about me is not verifiable - and that's the key.

This 'roller-derby' stuff looks awesome to me; I didn't know about it until LauraHale mentioned your page, the other day...so, there you go, at least one new person is a fan.

Notjackbrown, I really, very sincerely. hope that your early experiences with adding to this project will not deter you. There's plenty of help available, and we're all here to make this wiki amazing; to collect all the knowledge of our world. I wish you all the best, and if you ever need help, please ask.

The best way to contact Chzz is IRC (text-chat), here  · Second-best is my talk page · Third-best is email Chzzlive.co.uk

 Chzz  ►  09:41, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

Seriously - you "experts" are just making this really difficult. I'm right at this moment trying to improve the page and add new references - and yet you keep deleting content and reverting changes. You're not being helpful at all. I'm a member of the Sun state Roller girls... you're not. Give me a chance to get the page updated. Seriously. Back of for a minute.Notjackbrown (talk) 09:45, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

Ditto. What chzz said. Please stick with it. On the whole, the Australian roller derby articles are probably the best ones of all the roller derby leagues by country. I'd love it if we could get all the articles about the Australian leagues with skaters to the World Cup to be determined to be amongst the highest quality articles on Wikipedia. A lot of information about these leagues can be hard to find and hard to source. For the Canberra Roller Derby League, I basically check every weekly magazine and newspaper I can find. I check the Canberra Times website regularly. I get bout guides. Some of these sources are only available in print. These print sources help with citing facts that we could not otherwise use. If you have those, please stick with this and use those sources. :) If you have access to the people running the league's website, put up a mini documentary or some "news report" which includes all that information in video format. Put it on the website. Then source it. (I bugged the CRDL on Twitter for scores as I could not find sources for that on their site. It was a major PITA. I still can't cite the finals as the last time I checked, they hadn't updated their website with that information.) So yeah, what chzz said. Please don't be discouraged.

Laura I'm already ready discouraged. I spent a good couple of hours tidying up the mess of a page you created for a league you clearly know nothing about... and now you're undoing my changes because I linked to the front page of a website. Give me a break. Notjackbrown (talk) 09:54, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

Wikimedia Australia has a few members up near Brisbane. If your league is really interested in this article, we could probably set up a workshop where we can walk league members on how to edit Wikipedia and roller derby articles in ways that will make this article kick ass and prevent problems. --LauraHale (talk) 09:51, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

Laura, Without further interference, I think we can build a fine page. The only problem right now is too many experts.Notjackbrown (talk) 10:04, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

Notjackbrown, if you can include citations where the citation supports the text, I'd be more than happy to leave the article alone and when it was fully sourced, I'd be happy to nominate it for did you know myself so the article can appear on the main page. The reason we're having so many editors, beyond myself and you, is because there are a few issues. There are a few Australian and general roller derby contributors who like to help improve these articles and they just want to be helpful. That's why so many people are editing it. (If you need help with sources, Skate Australia as a lot of information and mentions the SSRG. ABC Brisbane's site also has a number of mentions about the league.) The removing of the mission quote isn't intended to make the page worse. It just could potentially be read as an advertisement. The source for that particular text is not sourced properly: The main page for the league does not include it. This means the quote is a potential copyright violation and could lead to blocking. Newbies make honest mistakes and I don't think you're doing it on purpose. If you learn a bit of the policies, you should really be able improve it in a way that won't get you in trouble and the article could really kick ass. :) If you have the time, I'd suggest looking at Canberra Roller Derby League. Look at the organisation and the wording. Look at the sections break down. Look at the sources. Model your edits that way. --LauraHale (talk) 10:15, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

Laura, I've already said that I'm going to add references. Please stop deleting content so that I might reference it to your satisfaction. You are being no help at all.Notjackbrown (talk) 10:41, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

October 2011

Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. Although everyone is welcome to contribute to Wikipedia, at least one of your recent edits, such as the one you made to Sun State Roller Girls with this edit, did not appear to be constructive, and has been reverted or removed. Please use the sandbox for any test edits you would like to make, and read the welcome page to learn more about contributing constructively to this encyclopedia. Thank you. Anirudh Emani (talk) 09:34, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

'Edit war'

Your recent edits seem to have the appearance of edit warring re reverts you have made on Sun State Roller Girls. Users are expected to collaborate and discuss with others and avoid editing disruptively.

Please be particularly aware, the three-revert rule states that:

1. Making more than three reversions on a single page within a 24-hour period is almost always grounds for an immediate block.
2. Do not edit war even if you believe you are right.

If you find yourself in an editing dispute, use the article's talk page to discuss the changes; work towards a version that represents consensus among editors. You can post a request for help at an appropriate noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases it may be appropriate to request temporary page protection. If you engage in an edit war, you may be blocked from editing without further notice.

Please DISCUSS your ideas on Talk:Sun State Roller Girls

I welcome you, as a new editor: however, it is vital that you understand that - whilst bold edits are encouraged - if others disagree, you have to talk about it.  Chzz  ►  10:36, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

CHZZ, are you serious? I've already explained that I'm right at this moment trying to fix the page, with references, to your and LauraHale's satisfaction. It is very difficult to add References and adjust formating when others keep deleting this before I get a chance to fix it. Seriously.. right now I'd rather have the page removed and star again... so Laura doesn;t get to see every edit I make as I make it. If you people can stop deleting text that's being updated - I'll happily stop reverting the vandalism Notjackbrown (talk) 10:44, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

Clearly, the edits are controversial; therefore, the Wikipedia-way is, to discuss them.

We encourage bold edits, but if others disagree with your changes, it's very important to not just keep posting them; instead, it's necessary to talk about them on the appropriate article talk-page - to get some agreement; and then then edits can be made. See WP:DISPUTE.  Chzz  ►  11:37, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

Controversial? Really? LauraHale is deleting content because the reference is the front page of a website - not the actual page the content is on. In the time it took her to delete the content she could have made a more accurate reference. I keep posting discussion... she keeps deleting regardless. Really, It just looks like she's angry I changed the page she created. Se's not improving the content - she's deleting it. Notjackbrown (talk) 11:42, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

Lead in the Canberra Roller Derby article

Hi. I'm going to WP:AGF here. Please do not remove the first section of an article. The Canberra Roller Derby League article has been identified as one of the better articles on Wikipedia after having undergone a review. Beyond that, the first section of an article is called the lead. The lead is supposed to summarise all the body of the article. Everything in the lead should be referenced below. When writing a lead for the Sun State Roller Girls when the article, please keep that in mind. :) --LauraHale (talk) 10:56, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

Laura, I think you missed a line from WP:AGF "It is important to be patient with newcomers, who will be unfamiliar with Wikipedia's culture and rules, but may nonetheless turn out to be valuable contributors." Notjackbrown (talk) 11:37, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

TALK about it, on Talk:Canberra Roller Derby.

See WP:BRD. The "AGF" thing only goes so far. We have s strict rule about multiple reversions - you've already broken that. I have assumed good faith, and tried to encourage you to discuss your edits on the article talk-page. If you repeat them one more time, without discussion, you will be blocked. I hope you'll talk about it instead. Thanks,  Chzz  ►  11:49, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

I've tried discussing things - I get not much in return - and now you threaten mr with being blocked if I don;t discuss things? I'M TRYING TO TALK ABOUT IT! ...but clearly I'm talking to myself. Seriously... all this over trying to add correct content and references to a page that was so far from being useful someone put it up for deletion? I'm trying, and I feel like i'm the only one. Notjackbrown (talk) 11:57, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

You are not discussing it; you're making massive changes [1] without references to reliable sources, and with no consensus. Which will not work, in the long-term.  Chzz  ►  14:31, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

Have you read anything I've posted in this discussion? I can't reference things that have been deleted. And when I've tried to reverted these deleted comments on the SSRG page so that I might reference them... The page becomes uneditable. Are you wikipedia experts all working together to make things difficult or what? I'M TRYING TO DISCUSS THINGS... perhaps you might try and read the discussion before making judgement. Seriously... our SSRG page gets blocked yet the CRDL page is immune? Is it always this difficult or should we feel special? Notjackbrown (talk) 14:38, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

Please refrain from making unconstructive edits to Wikipedia, as you did at Canberra Roller Derby. Your edits appear to constitute vandalism and have been reverted or removed. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. Thank you. Hawkeye7 (talk) 19:34, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

Where to put notes to another editor

Hi. I noticed that you added some comments to Laura Hale's personal page. The place you want to put comments is on her TALK page. That's where she'll be more apt to see them and respond. I moved your comments from her User Page to her talk page -- hope you don't mind. Cheers! --Nemonoman (talk) 13:33, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

Gotham Girls Roller Derby article

Hi. I seriously want to help. The article you cited, Gotham Girls Roller Derby is not one of the better articles about roller derby on Wikipedia. Modelling is a great idea and can teach you a lot about editing Wikipedia, but you should use the ones that are of higher quality. Some examples that come to mind of higher quality articles include Adelaide Roller Derby, Geelong Roller Derby League, Varsity Roller Derby League, Ballarat Roller Derby League and Victorian Roller Derby League. While these articles are not long, they all have citations to support the information that is found in them. The wording is neutral, and they don't (shouldn't) have issues with wording that could be seen as making the article look better. If you're looking for examples of how to edit, I would chose these over the one that you did. As you're temporarily blocked, a measure I did not ask for, it would be great if you could work on one of these articles in the interim to get a better feel for how this works. By not being as familiar with the league as you are with your own, it might help understand the issue regarding sourcing.

Convict City Roller Derby League has a source on the ABC. The information in the ABC article, can you try to add it into the article and cite the ABC age? {{cite news|url=http://www.abc.net.au/news/2010-06-11/roller-derby-team-skates-off/863064|accessdate=26 October 2011|date=11 June 2010|title=Roller derby team skates off|publisher=Australian Broadcasting Corporation}} is how the source for this reference would look.

Ballarat Roller Derby League is almost mentioned by the ABC. There is some useful information in there that may or may not be in the article. Can you figure out how to include it?

As for the headings and trying to improve the article, I'll try to spend some time on it today and look for sources related to the league. I don't know much about the structure, other than their appear to be a lot of subject headings that I don't know how much information you can find related to them. The mission section could probably be there on its own, once a source is found that talks about it, and it can be merged with the charity section to give it some additional length and demonstrate how the league works on achieving its mission. --LauraHale (talk) 19:59, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

if you really want to help - stop deleting content

Laura, I know you think you're being helpful, and clearly you consider yourself some kind of wikipedia expert - but the reality is you created an inaccurate page that needed fixing, and since accurate verifyable info was added all you've done is vandalise the page... with the reason that the references weren;t good enough. That's really unhelpful.

You removed the ENTIRE Intraleague competition section. All the info there is easily verifiable - it's on the SSRG website and others. In the time it took you to delete all the content I added (because you didn;t like a reference that only linked to a website's front page - not the lower level pages) you could have instead helped by fixing the references. While you might know a lot about the wikipedia rules - you don;t know much at all about the subject matter.

If you really want to help - stop deleting content. If you're really interested in how "fandom" works in social media, try and understand that your actions have almost completely turned me off wikipedia. Please don't interfere with the page - as stated, a lot of time has already gone into removing inaccurate information you added. I really don;t want to have to keep doing that. Just because you can find something someone said on the internet, doesn;t make it reliable or accurate. Notjackbrown (talk) 22:20, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

Your MoodBar feedback

Hi Notjackbrown. I just wanted to say that, while I understand if you're frustrated trying to reach consensus with people, it's probably not a good idea to leave feedback such as you did here (now hidden) that names specific people. I hid it and I'm not sure if it was very clear that the feedback was going to be public, so no harm no foul. Thanks, Steven Walling • talk 22:34, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

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