User talk:Pencefn/Archive08Q3

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Template:Historical Welsh railway companies

Hi Pencefn, I saw your new template on Historical Welsh railway companies. Its looks like an interesting and ambitious project. I have started adding the narrow gauge railway that have Wikipedia articles. I have a couple of questions for you though. First, I'm not sure which railways should be included. What defines a "historical" Welsh railway, as opposed to any other kind?

Second, I'm concerned that the list is going to get very large. Even if we restricted it to railways that have Wikipedia articles, I suspect there are several hundred articles to add. If we added all the Welsh railways, there may be upwards of a thousand railways, I'd guess. The template will be larger than many articles, and could well take up the entire screen for some users. It might be worth thinking about how to deal with this. One simple solution would be to default the template to being closed.

Also, I removed the template from a couple of categories, since in general categories should contains articles and other categories, but not templates. Best, Gwernol 23:26, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Our messages crossed :-) Regarding the CM&DRT, I'm afraid this is an example of Awdry being wrong. The CM&DRT became the Corris Railway in 1864. The CR wasn't acquired by the GWR until 1930. The CM&DRT was never owned by the GWR. This is covered (with sources) in the Corris Railway article. Best, Gwernol 23:30, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
Wow, that Scottish template is huge :-) Okay, I guess we have a way to go to match that. I'd certainly support having this closed by default, that seems sensible. I think it would be useful to put the definition of "historical" into the template, in the noinclude section. This would prevent any future potential confusion. Best, Gwernol 00:00, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
I'm going to keep working on this for a while. I have quite an extensive library covering Welsh railways, so I ought to be able to fill in a lot of the template from that. I'm also finding a number of missing articles on the early railway companies, which I think I can at least create as astubs to help this along. Thanks for starting this and getting me a new project to work on :-) Best, Gwernol 15:10, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
I'm sorry i'm wandering into your conversation but i was wondering now maybe we should have one for England (possibly including the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands) and one for Northern Ireland, although for the latter, it might have to include ROI as well. Simply south (talk) 23:43, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Ffestiniog Railway rolling stock

Can you check your reversion of the use of the {{Whyte}} template? The template uses   so the types are not able to wrap across lines. I have tried the page at various window widths and don't see any wrapping occurring as a result of the use of the template, down to page widths around 200 pixels. Which entries are you seeing wrap? Thanks, Gwernol 19:15, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Far North Line

For full discussion see User talk:Soarhead77#Far North Line

I wasn't familiar with the Video 125 productions! I've done a rework of that section now, I think it covers all the bases.

Soarhead77 (talk) 10:26, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Alnwick and other things

I've just written the Alnwick railway station article and managed to get the yellow historic line bits right. Or, possibly; one of my reasons for this message was to have you take a look at it. I'd also like your opinion on whether the diagram from Alnwick branch line would add anything here or whether the link to the article on the branch line is enough. Thanks! Britmax (talk) 11:42, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

No problem with any of that: thanks for your input. (Oh, except for the Byzantine nature of British railway history. But that's nowt to do wi'us.) Britmax (talk) 12:51, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Template:Varsity Line

Discussion moved to Template talk:Varsity Line#Further revisions --Stewart (talk) 18:17, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Altnabreac station

Thanks for correcting my error here.Why I thought the station was on the Kyle line I'll never know but I think that week off work coming up is more needed than I thought! Britmax (talk) 07:58, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Greater Glasgow WP

Hi Stewart, You may be interested in a proposal for a wikiproject Greater Glasgow that has been proposed by another editor, Andrew22k, here; and if you are interested please add your name to the support section and ask anyone else you might know who would be interested.Pyrotec (talk) 21:38, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Washington Station (next to Alyth Junction?)

During the creation of the Alyth Junction article I found this station on the Scottish Midland railway diagram. I can find no other reference to a Washington station there, although Butt has one lasting a year on the Perth and Dundee line. There seems to no room for one on the OS map between the Alyth junctions and the next station at Ardler. You may want to look at this. Britmax (talk) 12:38, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Thanks - I will have a look when I get home and am close to my reference books. I think this comes from the information comes from the RAILSCOT article. --Stewart (talk) 13:07, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
Great. And Washington station in Butt lasted ten years {1837 - 1847) not one (my mistake) Britmax (talk) 13:31, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

NowCommons: Image:190-04 901117.jpg

Image:190-04 901117.jpg is now available on Wikimedia Commons as Commons:Image:FR Conway Castle.jpg. This is a repository of free media that can be used on all MediaWiki wiki's. The image will be deleted from Wikipedia, but this doesn't mean it can't be used anymore. You can embed an image uploaded to Commons like you would an image uploaded to Wikipedia, in this case: [[Image:FR Conway Castle.jpg]]. Note that this is an automated message. --Erwin85Bot (talk) 16:10, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Image:110Comb-060103.jpg is now available as Commons:Image:FR Carriage110.jpg. --Erwin85Bot (talk) 17:43, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
Image:119Comb-060103.jpg is now available as Commons:Image:FR Carriage119.jpg. --Erwin85Bot (talk) 17:47, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
Image:117Comb-060104.jpg is now available as Commons:Image:FR Carriage117.jpg. --Erwin85Bot (talk) 17:55, 14 August 2008 (UTC)


If you really want it renamed, tag it with {{rename}}. However, as it is, I don't see a need to. The name you gave it was cryptic, and any extra info can be conveyed from the description. Until there are multiple images of the same carriage, I see no need to make it harder to understand than necessary. -mattbuck (Talk) 19:56, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Images being removed

Hi, I noticed you complained when another user removed your images from an article. As explained at {{Cleanup-gallery}}, image galleries are discouraged on Wikipedia. Thanks for your time, Anonymous101 (talk) 20:36, 14 August 2008 (UTC)


I'm sorry you feel that way, but Wikipedia is not a repository of images and so galleries should generally be avoided. Images should be there to illustrate an article - maybe you could add your images to the page on the right hand side or something. The upper station image is more informative than the picture of the signs as an infobox image. I'm certainly not trying to say your images are bad - I transwikied quite a few, adding geocoding and stuff where necessary, because I like the FR. For that reason, I want to see its articles as among the best on wikipedia. And anyway, a content dispute on wikipedia is no reason to change your holiday plans. -mattbuck (Talk) 20:36, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

First off mate, take some time out. If you feel this strongly about it, you need some time to cool off. As for your images, the licences you put them under are non-revocable. Now, if there was a good reason for you to want them removed, I'd be happy to. But throwing a hissy fit because someone removed them from an article is not a good reason. Like I said, I'd be perfectly happy to have some in the article, just not as a gallery. -mattbuck (Talk) 20:40, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
I have added several of your images to the article as inline illustrations. -mattbuck (Talk) 20:48, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
I am truly sorry for any offense I have caused you - your photographs are indeed generally useful. However, of the six photos in the gallery, the ones I feel added to the article I have put back, with their full captions. The others I felt did not display any information which was useful to the casual user whose attention you covet. It is always a shame when wikimedia loses a contributor through some petty disagreement, as this is. I hope you do reconsider in time. -mattbuck (Talk) 21:04, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
You feel a significant amount of your work has been undone? I removed a gallery from ONE article, and added half the images back, with their original captions. If I'm making this out to be petty, it's because it is. You are saying you will no longer contribute your images because they aren't all being actively used in articles. That is petty. You do not own articles. -mattbuck (Talk) 21:42, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
I am deeply impressed by the amount of effort you put into this. However, all wikipedia contributions should be within policy, unless there is very good reason. I honestly did not see a good reason to have such a large and obtrusive gallery in the article, and so I was bold and removed it. Had I known what you had invested in this, I would certainly have taken it to the FR talk page or some other such place. I agree that Wikipedia works by people with knowledge adding what they know, although hopefully backed up with sources, and you are obviously a knowledgable person on the subject. Me, I'm just someone who is juvenile enough to find watching steam trains a fun way to pass a holiday. I don't pretend to have expert knowledge, just what I've picked up over the years. Since you feel so strongly about this matter, I suggest we do take it up elsewhere - the FR talk page seems an ideal place for this matter to be debated, as we will pick up all the people who are interested in the FR but maybe don't watch the stations individually. I leave this up to you. -mattbuck (Talk) 23:14, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Williamstown railway station

Can you mention in the article when the station was closed? Otolemur crassicaudatus (talk) 09:51, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Dirleton railway station

rightthumb|right {{helpme}} I have uploaded the image into commons to commons:Image:Dirleton Station.jpg. The image appears to be available when asking for it from the image page, but is not displaying on the commons image page; en.wikipedia image page; or in the article the image is being used in. Any thoughts? --Stewart (talk) 10:28, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Hi. From looking at the village pump, it looks like the thumbnail generating servers are rather slow currently. As you can see, the image loads fine when at full size, but not when a thumbnail. I think the thumbnail generator is either backlogged or stuck, if you wait a few hours it will probably be fine. -mattbuck (Talk) 11:14, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Suggestions re notes and references

Thanks for this. I've been helping a friend move house over the weekend so will give them some thought when I can spare it (current estimate is sometime on Tuesday afternoon!) Britmax (talk) 21:39, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Sorry for being such a pain

Hi Stewart,

I think I am long overdue for giving you an apology for my remarks on the Duncan Hawthorne page earlier this month. To be frank, I felt that providing more information on the positive figures and characteristics of nuclear power would help to alleviate the high amount of misinformation on the technologies and the operations of a contemporary nuclear power company.

Sorry again for the inconvenience, I think it's safe to say I got a head of myself (Ha!). Also, while on the subject, my experience with wikipedia is not to the same level as you, and I assume that of your colleagues. I did attempt to use material from other sources to create this wiki but obviously failed to provide adequate information.

According to the other comments, maybe I'm best to take this wiki off intirely-- what do you think? Otherwise I'd certainly appreciate some feedback on how to provide an objective article without violating the wikipedia code of conduct.

Again, I apologize sincerely for being such a pain. It's obvious you've done brilliant work for a number of Wikipedia projects and I obviously took the edits personally instead of utilizing them to create an improved wiki.

-Brad —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 12:27, 22 August 2008 (UTC)


Hi. I've written a formal apology and explanation for my actions over the past two weeks at Talk:Ffestiniog_Railway#An_apology.I hold no malice towards any contributor, here or on Commons, and I'd like this chance to explain myself fully before the FR editing community. Thanks. -mattbuck (Talk) 17:24, 22 August 2008 (UTC)


Hi, Stewart, things have been a bit hectic today, but in view of recent developments I've put this up.[1] Hope that helps – again! Thanks for your assistance. . . dave souza, talk 18:12, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

Shotts railway station

Thanks. I didn't know that. I was adding station usage stats (in a fairly desultory fashion) and was puzzled why it didn't work, which is why I changed the template. Thanks for sorting it out. Johnlp (talk) 18:16, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Oxford Wikimania 2010 and Wikimedia UK v2.0 Notice


As a regularly contributing UK Wikipedian, we were wondering if you wanted to contribute to the Oxford bid to host the 2010 Wikimania conference. Please see here for details of how to get involved, we need all the help we can get if we are to put in a compelling bid.

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We look forward to hearing from you soon, and we send our apologies for this automated intrusion onto your talk page!

Addbot (talk) 19:57, 30 August 2008 (UTC)


This guy is out of control. –Signalhead < T > 14:17, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Re: Butt-Stations

The front cover of the book quite clearly shows the long note about detailing every station is a description of the contents, not a heading or subheading. As such, it is not necessary or supported by precedent to include it in the description on the template. Being essentially a data-dump directory, it is not surprising that WorldCat would simply reel off the cover verbatim, but this does not make the description part of the title or influence the style in which book titles are represented on WP. On a bit of a tangent, it might be useful to have an article on the book itself, and/or the author (unless I missed either of these because they are not linked from the template?), especially if we are suggesting to WP readers that the book is a weighty and authoritative tome about the railways. Deiz talk 15:37, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

Butt and Arbroath

Thanks for telling me you bought the Butt book. It's very useful for this kind of work. I'l have to keep up with you by buying the older Jowett. Nice disambig page on Arbroath, by the way. You knocked it out so quickly I thought I might have trodden on someone's toes by redirecting the old stations to the current one without realising it was there, but no such problem. Only thing is you may have worked yourself into turning my old work on Aintree into a disambig page as you are better at it than I am. Keep up the good work! Britmax (talk) 19:51, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Ardeer Platform railway station

Hi Stewart.

I wondered whether your expertise on matters north of the border extended to whether the Nobel branch and stations were operated by the G&SW or the Caley before the grouping. The existing article and sources so far are not clear. Does the pre nationalisation Jowett shed any light here? Britmax (talk) 07:15, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Reverting my edits

Reverting my edits as "disruptive" and "vandalism" is wrong. I am helping Wikipedia not vandalise it. Possibly you would like to read this or this. (talk) 07:04, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Spot the sock competition. dave souza, talk 08:01, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Station Navbox position

I've noticed that there's some inconsistency in the position of the station navbox in the West Highland Line station articles (and probably others too). Do you have a preference? I feel it should always be right at the bottom of the page. –Signalhead < T > 14:35, 21 September 2008 (UTC)